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Gatzby

Alpha 15.4 Released

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Hey squaddies!

 

We’ve got some slightly-unusual patch notes for you today.

 

But first, you can say goodbye to that annoying server filter bug! (The “show full servers” checkbox functionality was inverted. Whoops!)

 

Additionally, we’re introducing some experimental changes to the “dead dead” mechanic, as well as the way “instadeath” works. Let’s dig in a little.

PRE-ALPHA 13

Prior to Alpha 13, the mechanics worked like this:

 

After dying and being revived, there was a 60-second time frame during which you were extra vulnerable. This meant that if you died again during these 60 seconds, you would become unrevivable (“dead dead”) and be instantly sent to the spawn screen. There was no UI indication of this vulnerability.

 

Taking a large caliber headshot (such as 50cal) would instantly make you unrevivable (instadeath).

 

This was a mechanic was originally added to convey some consequence of death, as well as a sense of tension and vulnerability to newly revived players. The goal was (hopefully) to encourage the vulnerable player to stick back with their squadmates.

 

We had some questions on whether the role of this mechanic was too punishing and negatively impacting the teamwork aspect, especially for new players to an already challenging game. It could be difficult to understand why the “instadeath” black screen occurred and the 60-second timer was not well-exposed.

ALPHA 13

With Alpha 13, when dying and being revived, there was no longer a period of extra “vulnerability,” allowing a player to be revived indefinitely. (Or until your medic ran out of bandages, anyway.)

 

The caliber required to make you unrevivable was increased, meaning you could be revivable after a 50cal headshot, but not after a 30mm headshot.

 

After 3 months of evaluation with these new changes, including lots of feedback from our community, we’re introducing a new iteration of these mechanics. 

 

As with the previous ones, the effects will be monitored and tweaked. Keep us updated with your feedback!

ALPHA 15.4

Revive window 1500.png

As of this patch (Alpha 15.4), when you are incapacitated, you have a revive window (5 minutes by default). This revive window will be shortened based on the amount of damage you took as part of your death.

 

For example, if you got downed by minimal damage from a pistol, your revive timer will be very close to 5 minutes. If you got downed by a rifle headshot, your revive timer will be slightly less than 2 and a half minutes. A 50 caliber headshot will give you a short 30-second revive window. Lastly, anything from a close proximity IED blast to a 30mm headshot and beyond will cause your revive window to be 5 seconds – too short to get revived in, so you’re effectively dead.

 

On top of this mechanic, the revive window persists through revives until you have been healed by a medic. This means that if you get headshot by a rifle, revived without getting healed, and then headshot again, the remaining revive window will be too short for another revive.

 

If not getting healed, this “persistent revive window” will automatically slowly increase back to the full 5 minutes as long as you remain alive. If you died, were revived, and managed to stay alive for a few minutes, you would be nearing the five-minute timer again.

Anything that previously sent you instantly sent to spawn screen (“instadeath”) will now instead give you a 5-second revive timer, too short to be revived in. The hope is to give the player more feedback about what happened when he died, instead of instantly disappearing from the map and into the spawn screen. 

 

In the future, we hope to include a 1-2 second ragdoll moment before entering the incapacitated state to provide better feedback about what just occurred in a more intuitive and immersive way.

 

Please note: there can and will be further tweaks and/or additions to this system. All in all, we hope it is a more flexible way to tune players’ revivability, as well as increase information available to the player. 

 

Our goal is to balance between the game being too forgiving and too unforgiving. In this version, revive trains should be harder to maintain and most catastrophic damage (e.g., headshots, IED explosions) should be more effective as well. However, players will still get a second chance in most cases. We will keep tracking revive statistics as well as your feedback.

BUDDY RALLY

Finally, we would like to give you some information on our intended gameplay ideas in the future concerning the Buddy Rally system. For the time being, lacking a system to reclaim or reset abandoned vehicles in the field, we will be keeping the buddy rally mechanic. 

 

In the future, we would like to see this replaced with a mechanic that deals with abandoned vehicles in the field, so that respawning at main is a more viable option. The buddy rally mechanic might still become a limited option available to the Commander, giving squads an extra option for situational redeployment. Another option is to make it available only to the Insurgents faction. Please keep your feedback coming on this as well.

 

Enjoy the patch! Let us know what you think!

 

OFFWORLD OUT.

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Posted (edited)

Great changes! Buddy rally in a limited capacity to either commander/insurgents/both would be a great change too. One possible way to deal with abandoned vehicles: abandoned vehicles outside of FOB radius blow up after a certain time period. Discourages people from abandoning vehicles and stops the gamey mechanic of holding enemy logis hostage.

 

The last annoying thing to fix is vehicle physics. This is one part of the game where the community is in 100% unison that more traction is needed. I don't care if a 30,000 lb truck may have a hard time making it up a hill IRL, in a game it's annoying AF.

Edited by John Wick's Dog

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Actually you can tell a lot of intelligent thought went into this iteration. Personally I'd like any headshot whatsoever to be a 5 second instagib but this seems reasonably realistic within the confines of this particular game.

 

Buddy Rally for now I'm ok with until something else gets put in its place but please don't make unoccupied vehicles self destroying because this ruins your ability to hide them, go back and keep projecting power forward. Delta Force Extreme 1&2 plus Joint Operations had a 5 minute self destruct timer on vics and it was a real drag for just this reason.

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i think vehicles returning to main after a while is a good idea, but as said by zylfax791 it can in some games ruin a good battle plan

 

Could SL's be given a notification/option to either leave it in place or let it respawn if any vehicle belonging to that squad has been left immobile after a while and outside the radius of a radio? Because it can be practice to leave logi's near a HAB for resupply runs or armour left at a HAB waiting for supplies for a repair/rearm.

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Speaking from personal experience, what mattered was not how long the revive window was, but rather the willingness of your nearby  teammates to move their asses 30 meters and do the revive.

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THANK YOU. Seriously made my day coming home to see this. If I could change one thing for the time being, though, it would be to request that buddy rallies require approval from the squad with the established rally. That way people can't just spawn on your rally if you're trying to be sneaky. I hope to see the system removed eventually, but if it had that one change, I could make my peace with it for now.

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Nice change to revive mechanics. It cuts a nice halfway house between the ability for constant revives and a punishing 2nd down insta-death.

 

For the problem of abandoned vehicles I was thinking (logis & transports) they could become a squads basic spawn point in a similar way to what Heroes & Generals does. Perhaps only let one or two respawns there over a 5 minute period to stop them being used as a mobile RP.

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Having abandoned vics respawn is a BAD idea. If you kill the crew of a tank that were running around outside of it, strategically you disable it but don't kill it(depending on ticket situation), that way denying the enemy team their tank. Same for logis, if you are able to disable and isolate all of the enemy logis that prevents the enemy team from resupplying FOBs or building new ones, thus is a legitimate strategy to winning. If you do go through with this change you should make it so that servers can disable/enable this feature so that competitive servers aren't impacted and casual players can enjoy the game more.

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Okay so first off changing the dead dead mechanic and creating buddy rallies back in alpha 13 with little explanation as to what was trying to be accomplished was just terrible. That and the fact that dead dead had no thought put into it and was just completely removed. The buddy rally system felt the same way to me with no thought and just a simple mechanic added. Then there was very little communication from the devs about it especially when so many community members were not happy with the change; the whole ordeal in my opinion was just poorly handled and executed. 

 

Now this update here is a whole other story. This is good. The dead dead mechanic is being more thought out and expanded. While changes can still be made this is definitely the right step in trying something new to make the overall experience better. I absolutely love the detailed post about how the mechanic works and how eventually you all want to expand upon it to provide better feedback to the player on what just occurred when dying. I love how the new mechanic isn't just a simple barely thought out feature. It feels really good and I really love the effort you all put in to truly improve upon it. Hopefully after some testing and maybe some changes we will get something really well put together.

 

Also I really appreciate a more detailed explanation about the buddy system and what we are trying accommodate for. There are definitely some things to try about reclaiming/respawning those vehicles. For now the buddy rally system doesn't feel so bad for a short term way until figuring out something better. As far as eventually being an exclusive feature just for the insurgents. I kinda like that for the unconventional forces. It really could add to the fear factor to fight against them and give them a more fighting chance being the under dogs. 

 

Good work OWI. Love the communication!

 

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Insta-death and narrow revive Windows should be kept at minumum. If overdone (like stated above) it wil break squad´s cohesion. Then again,...Having somehting like Buddy rally who cares? right?

 

On the other hand, Dead-dead should always be there.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Gatzby said:

Revive window 1500.png

 

Thank you, forgoing a step in the right direction again :3

10 hours ago, Gatzby said:

In the future, we would like to see this replaced with a mechanic that deals with abandoned vehicles in the field, so that respawning at main is a more viable option. The buddy rally mechanic might still become a limited option available to the Commander, giving squads an extra option for situational redeployment. Another option is to make it available only to the Insurgents faction. Please keep your feedback coming on this as well.

Well, I'm pretty sure the day we get access to transport choppers will resolve both issues. Firstly the chopper transport grants you a viable option for respawning at main with your Squad and the pilot can take you pretty much elsewhere within seconds.

Secondly, we didn't get stuck at main anymore if someone rescued an abandoned vehicle. You had 3 option's to get back Walk/ Respawn or take another Vehicle which felt for most ppl. unrewarded or even boring. With the transport chopper, we can get back without spending several minutes walking, wasting tickets or abandon the next vehicle.

Edit: Besides, the Pilot could also drop you at the abandoned vehicle.

Edited by Phoenixstorm

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Right direction, good.

 

Negative note: it is now clear that the momentum will never return.

I see that having movements that are more realistic and less arcade it s really a thing hated by the Devs...sin.

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10 hours ago, Gatzby said:

In the future, we would like to see this replaced with a mechanic that deals with abandoned vehicles in the field, so that respawning at main is a more viable option. The buddy rally mechanic might still become a limited option available to the Commander, giving squads an extra option for situational redeployment. Another option is to make it available only to the Insurgents faction.

Finally something on this shit mechanic, i'm actually quite happy

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This hasn't done anything to medic revive trains though.
I still sit next to the window with a medic next to me get headshotted with 50 cal and revived all day long.

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Posted (edited)

I like how you guys making the game more soft. And getting rid from all this inadequate punishing which was only for punishing, because of all this crazy players, who allways want to restrict something in the game, because *realizm* or some other bullshit demagoguery like "I WANT MAY FRAGS TO BE COUNTED!! GET RID FROM REVIVE MECHANICS IN REAL LIFE YOU CANT DO IT! REEEE".

 

This is what I hated in PR game mechanics. All this "read the field manual" for 5 minutes, because I wasn't able to place a fob... man I was on fire because of this noncense stuff...

 

So yeah. Common sense and game design are synonyms.

Edited by FishMan

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Thank you, devs. I hope that next you will do something about the lack of momentum and crazy zig-zagging.

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Just now, FishMan said:

I like how you guys making the game more soft. And getting rid from all this inadequate punishing which was only for punishing, because of all this crazy players, who allways want to restrict something in the game, because *realizm* or some other bullshit demagoguery.

 

This is what I hated in PR game mechanics. All this "read the field manual" for 5 minutes, because I wasn't able to place a fob... man I was on fire because of this noncense stuff...

 

So yeah. Common sense and game design are synonyms.

It was punishing because that made players feel more vulnerable and, as a result, encouraged them to be cautious and work together.

 

The difficulty of doing certain tasks like placing fobs is another issue altogether, and I agree that some tasks were unnecessarily difficult to do in PR, but that was mostly because of engine limitations.

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Btw. After you guys did some good work on performance do you have any plans to forbiting switching off shadows and distant shadows?

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, fatalsushi said:

It was punishing because that made players feel more vulnerable and, as a result, encouraged them to be cautious and work together.

Oh. And suddenly it stopped doing that? So now we can get rid of it? Something is not connecting dont you think? )

 

30 minutes ago, fatalsushi said:

The difficulty of doing certain tasks like placing fobs is another issue altogether, and I agree that some tasks were unnecessarily difficult to do in PR, but that was mostly because of engine limitations.

Pretty sure there was a way to do it softer.

Edited by FishMan

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1 hour ago, FishMan said:

Pretty sure there was a way to do it softer. 

No worries FishMan, I'm sure the game will get much "softer" yet. So far during the development it was always the case that as soon as the game took a step towards more punishing mechanics (oh, the horror), two steps toward the arcade gameplay quickly followed.

 

Looking forward to the next patch, fellas, I dare you to prove me wrong. 

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Step in right direction! Very cool idea!

 

Just a thought:

We might see new medics/players start to rush players downed by 50cal/IEDs/30mm. Could be nice addition to have three states of incapacitated icons:

  • bright red: when medic have enough time to revive downed player
  • flashing red(dark/bright): when medic is left 15 seconds or so to revive
  • dark red: when medic doesn't have enough time to revive

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