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3 hours ago, Thr34t said:

When you are surrounding yourself with like minded people it is easy to believe you are the majority.  I still believe you are the minority. 

Even if. 

 

Still a considerable minority. What´smore, important enough to the community because this "minority" is engaged enought so be vocal and express ideas and give feedback (unlike 90% of players who don´t even have an account on the server and is really hard to know if they actually like any change whatsoever AND WILL MOVE TO THE NEXT SHOTTER THE SECOND IT COMES OUT WITH FLASHY TRAILERS ON YOUTUBE).

 

And finally. Most online games have different modes for players to join whatever server they like. That´s all this "minority" is asking for. 

 

Is it so hard to deliver? is it so hard for the rest of the "majority" to just be sympathetic and not argue against it?

 

AND NO. it wouldn´t take the devs a lot of resources or time to just have some server settings to click or unclick allowing people to play the game the way it was back on V12.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nightingale87 said:

AND NO. it wouldn´t take the devs a lot of resources or time to just have some server settings to click or unclick allowing people to play the game the way it was back on V12.

Those more knowledgeable can correct me if I'm wrong but afaik all that programming is in the actual core of the game and not part of the map logic. Splitting the game up into different versions to satisfy specific communities would most likely fracture the player base even further than it already is.

 

Not to mention the fact that you'd basically need three separate versions; Hardcore Realistic MilSim LARP, Casual Arcade and Competitive Laser Tag.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Splitting the game up into different versions to satisfy specific communities would most likely fracture the player base even further than it already is.

Ah!...

 

I forgot about the MYTH.

 

Sure.

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Different game modes like Rising Storm 2 has (Realism, Action, Classic, Custom etc) would be possible I imagine but be reasonable and realistic about it...Let the devs finish the actual game and modes first! Makes no sense to be demanding this sort of thing right now. 

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I was never a big Red Orchestra 1 guy (maybe someone else could comment on this?) but I remember the classic RO folks I knew at the time being just as baffled about the additional game modes in the RO sequels as I was... To me they seemed like mostly symbolic gestures, adding or removing UI elements and such, it was never really capable of changing the game at it's core because that was already fixed during development. I can't say what exactly they were looking for, though.

Looking at it now, I don't think Rising Storm 2 even bothered with these modes. Looks like some have been remade as community mods ("Mutators"), but as of now all the RS2 servers are running more or less the same game.

 

I have concerns about segregating a hardcore community with modes and mods. Back in the day, total conversion mods were big enough to support strong communities that were independent from their base games, but I don't know if that's possible now. I definitely don't want to see PR design introduced just to contain the backwash of reactionaries who think Squad isn't "hardcore" enough for them... let's just say I don't like the vibe of that dumb "ProjectReality2" mod on the workshop. PR's design was about teamwork above all else, and that seems like a poison pill.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Melbo said:

Different game modes like Rising Storm 2 has (Realism, Action, Classic, Custom etc) would be possible I imagine but be reasonable and realistic about it...Let the devs finish the actual game and modes first! Makes no sense to be demanding this sort of thing right now. 

Ok, that’s reasonable enough. But yeah, 2 or 3 modes to choose from would be awesome.

Edited by fatalsushi

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56 minutes ago, Good-Try Greg said:

I have concerns about segregating a hardcore community with modes and mods. Back in the day, total conversion mods were big enough to support strong communities that were independent from their base games, but I don't know if that's possible now. I definitely don't want to see PR design introduced just to contain the backwash of reactionaries who think Squad isn't "hardcore" enough for them... let's just say I don't like the vibe of that dumb "ProjectReality2" mod on the workshop. PR's design was about teamwork above all else, and that seems like a poison pill.

I don´t get this concern based on the myth that community will somehow disolve if different modes are incorporated.

 

Why would that happen? Please expand.

 

For instance, the ONE LIFE events are a big thing with more and more people every day. It´s hard to find a sport for basic training and other events. I don´t see that affecting the community in a negative way.

 

People would share the same enthusiasm for NEW WEAPONS, NEW SOUNDS, NEW GRAPHICS, NEW MAPS, NEW FACTIONS, and a long etc. Everybody would provide feedback and look forward to new updates. The only thing would be that from time to time people would chose to play in different modes. PERIOD. NO BIG DEAL.

 

On the opossite. If anything, the current iteration is segregating people. It´s kind of obvious. I haven´t played in 3 months. I know some other people I play with haven´t played in months either. We all agree we don´t find it "special" anymore. 

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Squad's community will be fine, it's got all the support structures, servers, active players etc. The problem is forming an alternative community that's basically just everyone who's mad at the game's perceived "casual" direction, for whatever reason - again, not just PR fans - running on enough 100p servers to be viable while not just being a toxic shithole.

 

Not saying it's impossible but it's not going to be easy. Also PR devs have straight up said they'll never be the ones to do it.

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Posted (edited)

devs:

  • make the game you want. please test everything, find and exceed the limits in every direction. you cant know the limit till you pass it.
  • note the feedback but ignore anyone who says they "haven't played for three months" for current and next step development. Make the game you want because committee design is weak.
  • let the whingers leave or help them on their way, they can spend their time finding something better if it exists. We all know the intent is exciting and the approach is honest. We don't need opinion spam with no constructive suggestions.
  • Define the end goal and give it your best shot. Finish.          Squad2? Leisure Suit Larry 12 VR 18+ edition? PaRappa the Rapper 3? Make some cash!
  • Once you are done the modders can take it further, if the little details that feed the whiners are controllable we all win.
Edited by suds

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Literally all i ask for is for Squad to feel more rewarding, by punishing stupidity and rewarding good planning and execution. Make dying a bad thing, not a "meh" thing, that's about it.

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The saddest thing about these conversations is how some people for reasons unknown to me can't grasp the concept of simple economics. Does it need to be spelled out for you in smoke signals, semaphore or perhaps Morse code? Are you not fully aware how the real world actually works?

 

Military Murder Simulators like Squad are a dime a dozen, they typically have a reasonably short life cycle of a few years and once the playership drops to a certain number you see an exponential cascading failure whereupon the plug to the authentication server gets pulled and then you can't play at all. I've got an entire library of these relics, in fact I've still got an extra sealed box copy of BF2 sitting on my shelf I bought on sale back in the day in case my friend wanted one. He didn't... lol... so there it sits.

 

So yeah, be careful what you wish for. Maintaining sales momentum is extremely important. This game has come dangerously close to that tipping point many times already if you look at the averages on Steam Charts and furthermore it will face especially stiff competition in the upcoming months with some truly big name titles dropping.

 

Bottom line, BF2 was a completely mediocre game that was basically obsolete when it came out which is why I played it for a couple hundred hours and moved on never looking back. At over a million copies sold and a normal daily average of around 3000 you can surmise that many many people either refunded or played around a couple hundred hours and moved on as well.

 

As it stands now Squad is a completely unique juxtaposition in the genre, that's the only reason I haven't moved on as well. Certainly there are better looking and playing games available. Maybe you nostalgic PRheads can play Squad in a few years when it fails and gets released on GOG where you can relive your super fobbing and wedge formation fantasies. Perhaps some bounding overwatch maneuvers as well.

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I have deleted some recent posts that where not doing anything for this thread, please stop the personal bashing/name calling and keep it on topic guys!

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, suds said:

devs:

  • make the game you want. please test everything, find and exceed the limits in every direction. you cant know the limit till you pass it.
  • note the feedback but ignore anyone who says they "haven't played for three months" for current and next step development. Make the game you want because committee design is weak.
  • let the whingers leave or help them on their way, they can spend their time finding something better if it exists. We all know the intent is exciting and the approach is honest. We don't need opinion spam with no constructive suggestions.
  • Define the end goal and give it your best shot. Finish.          Squad2? Leisure Suit Larry 12 VR 18+ edition? PaRappa the Rapper 3? Make some cash!
  • Once you are done the modders can take it further, if the little details that feed the whiners are controllable we all win.

So for some reason they have to ignore me.

 

Thank you. Really.

 

But why exactly? Because last time I chcecked I´m saying the same thing you are. Keep working on the game. Provide the community with the ability to mod. And keep up the great work.

 

On the other hand…

"define the end goal"... Well. Record shows they have bene quite ambiguous with that in the past and that some devs have a different visión form others.

Edited by Nightingale87

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3 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

just another pointless wall of text

Man you've completely stopped any fact checking and thought before posting. 

No one is mad at them for trying to keep selling the game, it's the false advertising (not a single one too) that is the problem. Let's hear your explanation about why it is not bad, I'm sure it will be interesting

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, rincewind said:

 

No one is mad at them for trying to keep selling the game, it's the false advertising (not a single one too) that is the problem. 

 

+1

 

Although I would change "false advertising" for "ambiguity" (deliberate?)

Edited by Nightingale87

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14 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

+1

 

Although I would change "false advertising" for "ambiguity" (deliberate?)

It's essentially the same.

1. The game is being announced to PR community exclusively, including the "everything but name" line that is still present on the FAQ page to this day.

There is no possible way former PR dev members wouldn't understand what exactly that means. Even if taking "spiritual" in account.

note: I'm fine with it not being 1:1 clone but there's just a fart instead of spirit for now.

2. Gets advertised further and funded by said community and whoever it managed to convince.

3. Years later, a company employee makes a public statement about the future way of that company's product, fully supporting original premise from p.1

4. The product goes in the opposite direction.

 

A decent thing for a conscientious company to do would be:

1. Make official statement about the final vision.

How are we supposed to understand that? Even inside OWI there's no real agreement on that seems like. 4 years passed, time to decide.

2. For those backers who is not satisfied with that vision (as well has less than N hours ingame) offer a refund of their kickstarter pack.

I'm sure with whatever copies they've sold they can afford that easily.

 

Whatever happens with the game after that then will be none of our business really. 

 

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13 minutes ago, rincewind said:

Man you've completely stopped any fact checking and thought before posting. 

No one is mad at them for trying to keep selling the game, it's the false advertising (not a single one too) that is the problem. Let's hear your explanation about why it is not bad, I'm sure it will be interesting

 

If you were truly concerned with fact checking you'd see there is very little public demand in the marketplace for an exact Project Reality clone. Luckily, OWI was intelligent enough to see that a MilSim/Arcade might stand a chance in an already heavily saturated genre.

 

Again reading the Kickstarter page I see no mention of creating a PR clone either only something "influenced" by the Mod. This tunnel vision you're suffering from is obviously somehow directly correlated to your fixations with this "Spirtual Successor" statement. Also, that's not true either, plenty of derogatory posts have been made regading a profit model.

 

The only "false advertising" assertions you could possibly make from the Kickstarter are the Sniper Role, flyable Jets and a few other things however at some point it may be possible to still implement these in some fashion as technology advances so again those are open to development.

 

Again, why don't you or anyone else want to answer my pointed questions regarding the still existing Project Reality modding team and how you've essentially abandoned and defunded them? I mean if the Mod can become the actual stand alone game that you're asserting Squad should have been then why not fund them instead? You left the very people that shared your vision the closest out in the cold didn't you?

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Zylfrax791 said:

 

You didn't read but it has been answered in this thread. Take your time, read carefully.

Edited by rincewind

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this game is having an identity crisis, it does not know what it wants to be (or does it?)

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12 hours ago, EA_SUCKS said:

this game is having an identity crisis, it does not know what it wants to be (or does it?)

I'm pretty sure the game now knows what it wants to be, we're just pissed because it changed its mind quite dramatically over the course of the last two years.

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17 hours ago, EA_SUCKS said:

this game is having an identity crisis, it does not know what it wants to be (or does it?)

It’s a diluted version of PR now, not a spiritual successor. At least there are modding tools.

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6 minutes ago, fatalsushi said:

It’s a diluted version of PR now, not a spiritual successor. At least there are modding tools.

I'm really curious how it's "diluted"? Can you actually qualify this using specifics in the form of like a two paragraph summary? Disregarding anything about the weapons, vehicles etc. but more like an exact explanation of how the actual functional parts of the mod compare/contrast with Squads game mechanic.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I'm really curious how it's "diluted"? Can you actually qualify this using specifics in the form of like a two paragraph summary? Disregarding anything about the weapons, vehicles etc. but more like an exact explanation of how the actual functional parts of the mod compare/contrast with Squads game mechanic.

squad: 
- hurr durr imma teleport across map muh buddy RP is not expiring anyway throw bodies at the flag / rinse and repeat / SL = dumb rp dispenser
- hardly any map has it's territory utilised more than 30% or is just sumari, god forbid you do otherwise are you ****ing insane THATS BORING U SHUT UP AND GO FIGHT FOR THAT SINGLE BARN 
PR: 
- actual and meaningful RP(emergency/backup point) and FOBs (main point) system making teams obliged to have supply lines and at least some degree of coordination, resulting in better gameplay for SL's and therefore for everyone else
- Gunplay/supression leveling the field while still allowing rambo-style but making it a lot harder to execute = less lonewolfing
- better maps and layouts design (cap ranges much bigger = positional warfare)

These are just a few basic things. Now I look into my mysterious sphere and predict what you'll say:
BUT WAIT FOR CHOPPERS NOONE WILL BOTHER WITH LOGIS - no, there's a lot of maps without helis
BUT ITS TOO MILSIM FORMATIONS BLAH BLAH BLAH - no, PR never was any close to milsim 
BUT STEAM KIDS WILL NOT BUY ITS TOO NICHE - no, PR had 3000+ daily just like squad, and it was a mod for an obsolete game already

You really have nothing better to do than just arguing all day and going over the same thing again and again? Might as well try it yourself.

Edited by rincewind

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44 minutes ago, rincewind said:

squad: 
- hurr durr imma teleport across map muh buddy RP is not expiring anyway throw bodies at the flag / rinse and repeat / SL = dumb rp dispenser
- hardly any map has it's territory utilised more than 30% or is just sumari, god forbid you do otherwise are you ****ing insane THATS BORING U SHUT UP AND GO FIGHT FOR THAT SINGLE BARN 
PR: 
- actual and meaningful RP(emergency/backup point) and FOBs (main point) system making teams obliged to have supply lines and at least some degree of coordination, resulting in better gameplay for SL's and therefore for everyone else
- Gunplay/supression leveling the field while still allowing rambo-style but making it a lot harder to execute = less lonewolfing
- better maps and layouts design

These are just a few basic things. Now I look into my mysterious sphere and predict what you'll say:
BUT WAIT FOR CHOPPERS NOONE WILL BOTHER WITH LOGIS - no, there's a lot of maps without helis
BUT ITS TOO MILSIM FORMATIONS BLAH BLAH BLAH - no, PR never was any close to milsim 
BUT STEAM KIDS WILL NOT BUY ITS TOO NICHE - no, PR had 3000+ daily just like squad, and it was a mod for an obsolete game already

You really have nothing better to do than just arguing all day and going over the same thing again and again? Might as well try it yourself.

I didn't ask you but whatever. Without rambling again please are you able to start over and offer an intelligent explanation contrasting the main differences in a more professional manner without all the silly mockery?

 

Lets take Fools Road for example. This map seems like pretty much an exact replica of the PR map with almost identical flag layouts. Please in an intelligent manner simply offer a summary of the differences of how a typical AAS match would play out.

 

Better yet, lets role play. The scenario would be that I'm this geriatric college professor and you're the bright student preparing this as the rough draft of your persuasive term paper. Assuming you've already done such a thing, you and I obviously already know your general thesis statement but now write the first few paragraphs with supportive details.

 

And btw, 200+ hours of BF2 was plenty of torture for me with the horrible graphics so that's unlikely and besides because they've reverse engineered the mod to be stand alone so now having it on your computer is essentially major copyright infringement on what's basically one of the biggest names in the industry. Not smart.

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12 hours ago, rincewind said:

 

The simple fact that you can't even articulate your point in an intelligent and thoughtful manner without resorting to trivial put downs speaks volumes really.

 

Bottom line, from all appearances Squad is infinitely more complex plus has many more features and attributes than PR ever had so logically it would seem to be for all intents and purposes the true "spiritual successor" after all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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