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TomReagan

More C4 or increase the damage

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I had a really disappointing experience. 
 

I snuck up a fob, found the radio which was in the complete open and placed C4 only to discover that apparently C4 doesn't destroy the radio anymore. It was to its last building stage but apart from that I got killed and the radio was back on track. I couldn't believe it so I did it again, maybe the charge was placed bad and somehow stuck in the wall. Next time I placed the C4 on top of the radio and I brought 4 guys with me. Again the radio wasn't destroyed, after a lengthy firefight we all got killed and the radio was brought back up. 

 

Maybe you should remove the C4 completely because it doesn't have any purpose anymore. First the engineer was stripped of one of its two charges and now the sole purpose of the C4 is also gone...destroying the radio. Forcing the enemy to have a close look at the radio. The FOB has become so strong with each update. You need more time to dig the FOB and now you cannot destroy the radio with one strike. Either increase the C4 damage again or give back the second charge to the combat engineer.     

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The reason is simple, a single engineer should not be able to sneak in and destroy a FOB, at least not without risk. Now you have to dig down the last 20 %, which is good so that we get rid of engineers running alone all over the map looking for FOB:s. So absolutely yes to the changes. One guy shouldnt be able to ruin the day for the entire enemy team without risk.

You will still disable the HAB and force the enemy to run back to the radio.

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Yeah, a single engineer shouldn't be able to do that...but the enemy team is responsible to defend the FOB and prevent that...with various ways to do this. And that is not ruining the day ...lol...its exploiting an obvious flaw in the enemies defenses. If someone can go to "the heart of the fob" without risk, the defences just suck.

Whats next? Make soldiers 5 seconds immortal after spawning at the HAB because blocking the HAB is not fun for the enemy? I mean even the HAB cannot be destroyed with C4.

 

With all the possibilities to protect the radio including placing it inside a building and blocking the entrance its absolute overkill to make a C4 charge so powerless that it cannot destroy a radio. The whole reason for the charge to be introduced was to destroy the radios, for anything else it is useless. You cannot destroy vehicles with it and disabling is more effective with handguns. Blowing up mines is a waste of material since you can just dig out the mines. 

 

Also the sapper in the irregular forces has an IED and can still kill the radio in one blow. That need to be fixed as well I guess? Squad is getting more and more in arcade mode.    

Edited by TomReagan

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Devs please dont do this with us!

I'm playing the CE since it showed up and before it, the Scout was my main.

I had at least 100 hours in CE until v15 but u totally wrecked it. 

 

The CE cannot defend himself agains distant fire, u stole 1 C4 from him, and now you made the last C4 totally useless. I'm very angry for this. 

And the bonus is that, SL-s are bugging other objects (eg. repair station) over the radio, so we have to dig down those first unseen.

 

Tom is right. If a CE can reach the hearth of the FOB than that team did something wrong and it deserves to be destroyed.

 

Irl a single grenade could destroy a radio. Pls dont make this game arcade.

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I think TomReagan is bringing up a good question. What is the point of C4, if it can not kill radios or vehicles.

 

Personally I like the idea and the way C4 was when it was introduced. I believe its recent nerf has the same reason we got the buddy rally, mainly FOBs being to difficult to maintain or rebuilt after they being lost. And not C4 itself being to strong. 

 

With the nerf C4 got, i see no purpose of it in the current stage.

Edited by Axel

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I like the new mechanic, it takes more skill to destroy a radio, instead of the place and forget, now the you have to dig it a bit, which the engineer still does faster. I rather have a balanced fun to play game, than hurr durr cus  IRL its not like that so it shouldn't be like that in the game. Squad was never a simulator, and ARMA is always an option.I mean the devs literally said that their goal is to bridge the gap between Arma and BF, taking the best things from both games.

 

Edit: This is copied directly from the steam store description of Squad:  It seeks to bridge the large gap between arcade shooter and military simulation.

Edited by Font

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14 hours ago, Font said:

I mean the devs literally said that their goal is to bridge the gap between Arma and BF, taking the best things from both games.

 

But C4 which has a real impact doesn't contradict that in anyway. 

And it is not place and forget...you have to infiltrate the FOB...the main spawn point of the enemy. You have to walk directly into "the lions den" where an enemy can virtually appear out of thin air at any time. I just point out the consequences. If the C4 is like that, than its useless and it should be removed completely. If it is removed the CE-class needs another equipment which justifies his existence like a shaped charge maybe which can kill a tank one-shot? Some device which makes it desiderable to play the role. 

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25 minutes ago, TomReagan said:

 

But C4 which has a real impact doesn't contradict that in anyway. 

And it is not place and forget...you have to infiltrate the FOB...the main spawn point of the enemy. You have to walk directly into "the lions den" where an enemy can virtually appear out of thin air at any time. I just point out the consequences. If the C4 is like that, than its useless and it should be removed completely. If it is removed the CE-class needs another equipment which justifies his existence like a shaped charge maybe which can kill a tank one-shot? Some device which makes it desiderable to play the role. 

The combat engineer still shovels quicker than a regular grunt, go in place a C4, dig for 10 secs, and you still have plenty of time to get out of the danger zone. Now it is just more risky to solo a fob, or you can have some of your mates covering you while you dig. Either way, the combat engineer is still the most efficient role to take down a radio, so I don't see why would this nerf make it a useless, for me it's more balanced.

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With this logic you can made anything more risky. Decrease handgranade damage so its more risky to storm a compound. Decrease damage in general so a firefight is more risky. Its just no argument for a game to make things more risky. Its a cheap way to balance a game mechanic which requires the enemy to respond in a certain way. The road you are suggesting leads to games I certainly dont look for in squad. 

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9 minutes ago, TomReagan said:

With this logic you can made anything more risky. Decrease handgranade damage so its more risky to storm a compound. Decrease damage in general so a firefight is more risky. Its just no argument for a game to make things more risky. Its a cheap way to balance a game mechanic which requires the enemy to respond in a certain way. The road you are suggesting leads to games I certainly dont look for in squad. 

Okay, then let me rephrase it, risk and reward. Until the nerf you just went to a fob placed a C4 and it was 99% of the time gone, I rarely seen the other team destroying the C4 before it exploded. Now you have to place the C4 dig and dig for 10secs. If you are alone you are exposed, but if you pull it off, then the enemy fob is gone. Or you will need a couple of mates to cover you for those 10 seconds. Also you can prevent enemies to throw nades into compounds by not letting them close to the compound by scouting, patrolling and killing them before they get to your compound. But by that the "defenders" are not in cover, I rarely get killed by grenades, simply because we are always on the move and not grouped up in a compound, even if we are in the capzone, we are still patrolling inside. Firefight is always risky, since you have to expose yourself, so the enemy has an equal chance of hitting you. If you can hit the enemy, the enemy can hit you too. Solo destroying a fob is a high risk high reward action and I don't have a problem with that. 

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C4 being unable to kill the radio from 100% health is good.

Combat engineer shouldn't be able to destroy radios alone, without any notice, if there's any kind of defense
Nobody wants to sit at radio and watch it, defending it 24/7
If radio can't be fully destroyed with 1 C4, you have to dig it before explosion, making sound alerting defenders
This increases radio suitability against solo engineers without support, and make engineers work in team instead of soloing it to ensure success. If anything, it increases requirement for teamwork, not decreases it

 

Fob takes 2 person + logy truck + supplies to place, combat engineer c4 shouldn't be the one click killer to it

C4 still gives you ability to destroy radio faster, with less manpower applied, but doesn't let you do it unnoticed alone without any teamwork anymore

 

 

Going back to BF2:PR breachers can't destroy fobs immediately, even if they stack their multiple C4

Edited by paragonid

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42 minutes ago, paragonid said:

Going back to BF2:PR breachers can't destroy fobs immediately, even if they stack their multiple C4

Did you remember the days where you be able to disable the radio with a single knife swing?

 

I can relate to both sides in this discussion. A lone wolf shouldn't be able to remove a radio so easily, on the other hand, if the team didn't secure or watch the radio they literally asking for being punished.

 

 

Edited by Phoenixstorm
spelling

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A lone wolf going all over the map from the enemy base over all the enemy caped points looking for a radio to place explosives on it and blow it with one go is just not ok at all.

I loved the time when you needed a couple of guys to do it one guarding the hab the other one digging it and needed time to dig it out.

It should be ok for insurgents or militia do do it since thy lack everything and giving them a little edge is not that bad at all.

I think.

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Having C4 insta-kill Fobs is such a frustrating mechanic, especially when the building is wonkey and there's no way to place any obstacles to block away the FOB

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Adapt and overcome. It really isnt that hard.

 

Place C4 and wait 10 seconds. Shovel it down for 6-7 seconds. Runaway.

 

Result radio totally destroyed.

 

Or do it as Squad was intended to play with teamwork ie. bring a Rifleman and reload.

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Don't forget that FOB's are so easy find because people are inherently lazy and A. don't bother hiding them and also B. plop the HAB down in close proximity to the FOB's.

 

Nevermind the fact in a lot of matches you've got people sitting AFK ghosting for their buddies on the other team and/or on their own switching teams and then miraculously "finding" FOB's as well.

 

This is even more reason to implement my idea to make FOB's only visible to squad leaders and completely disable the map for player's that haven't joined a squad.

 

Honestly in a team based game like this the game mechanic should be programmed so that a player has to either join or start a squad in order to even spawn in let alone see the map and all its Intel.

 

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I am somewhat surprised of how sloppy you guys are working with radios. You can hide them, you can confine them so the CE would need several minutes of unprotected shoveling to even get to the radio. 

 

Let me summarize to point out the hollowness of that argument: It is too easy for a CE to find a FOB, sneak into a FOB, find the radio there digging your way to the radio making a distinct noise and being totally defenseless over the course of at least 2 minutes (door shut with one single heavy emplacement...if its not bugged inside the HAB...as it is more and more the case) in an area which is by the premise of the game the most enemy populated one on the whole map.

 

Let that sink a little xD and then lets talk about implementing safe spaces for stress free spawning without pesky enemies who shot at you.  

 

 

Edited by TomReagan

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On 20.7.2019 at 4:43 PM, TomReagan said:

I had a really disappointing experience. 
 

I snuck up a fob, found the radio which was in the complete open and placed C4 only to discover that apparently C4 doesn't destroy the radio anymore. It was to its last building stage but apart from that I got killed and the radio was back on track. I couldn't believe it so I did it again, maybe the charge was placed bad and somehow stuck in the wall. Next time I placed the C4 on top of the radio and I brought 4 guys with me. Again the radio wasn't destroyed, after a lengthy firefight we all got killed and the radio was brought back up. 

 

Maybe you should remove the C4 completely because it doesn't have any purpose anymore. First the engineer was stripped of one of its two charges and now the sole purpose of the C4 is also gone...destroying the radio. Forcing the enemy to have a close look at the radio. The FOB has become so strong with each update. You need more time to dig the FOB and now you cannot destroy the radio with one strike. Either increase the C4 damage again or give back the second charge to the combat engineer.     

they nerfed it. It has made me lots of times upset as well. You now need to dig it down one tier, than c4 it. It's bullshit.
And the nerf of the AT by increasing the needed space between target and gunner is also bullshit, making vehic much more overpowered. Last rounds I shot 4 HAT and 3 LAT on one tank, that didnt go off. I shot 2 LAT on 1 Logi, it did not pop. Guys....

 

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17 hours ago, Barbarossa said:

they nerfed it. It has made me lots of times upset as well. You now need to dig it down one tier, than c4 it. It's bullshit.
And the nerf of the AT by increasing the needed space between target and gunner is also bullshit, making vehic much more overpowered. Last rounds I shot 4 HAT and 3 LAT on one tank, that didnt go off. I shot 2 LAT on 1 Logi, it did not pop. Guys....

 

Yeah the AT nerf is also shit. Yesterday I shot at a Stryker with Tandem-RPG and the Stryker just closed in on us so we (2 ATs) couldn't deliver the final blow. I mean vehicles are already favored in Squad with downgraded damage for the AT-weapons in general but with these nerfs it gets downright ridiculous.   

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You cannot expect that all hits are equal. It depends on where the vehicle are hit since it have different armor thickness on different places. 4 HAT + 3 LAT on a tank sounds like you where hitting the front of the turret or something like that. 2 tandem RPG is enough if they hit the right areas and 1 hit in the side of the turret will disable it.
Soft targets are also a bit hard to kill with light anti tank weapons due to the way they work. A hit to the cabin would probably kill or damage the people inside it. But a hit in the side or rear dont have to deal any significant damage since most of the energy from the shaped charge may just continue on the other side of the vehicle without hitting anything significant. IMO a HE/frag should be more lethal than a light HEAT round against unarmored targets.

But i see the same in tank vs tank duels. Most shots are aimed towards the turret front where almost no damage is done.

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But a vital concept of the game have been that no single player or kit should be able to have a decisive effect on the outcome of the game. AT are modeled so that you cannot one shot tanks and other vehicles so that you have to cooperate with other players in order to kill it. Same for engineers, they should not be able to remove the enemies ability to spawn on a point by their own. You can still do it btw but its harder and more risky and it might be wiser to bring a friend. And thats kind of the idea with the game.

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I don't get whats so easy to infiltrate the FOB. You say its easy, but by that standard what is not easy in the game? Killing a tank? Easy, you just need to hit the right spot repeatedly from a concealed place where you can reload and ammunition nearby...but thats the problem, these conditions were a task becomes easy are usually not met in the game. For a CE to become able to kill a radio single-handedly without notifying anyone the enemy has to neglect basic game mechanics like barriers and thoughtful placement of the radio...and he has to lose the ability to hear. If we talking about implementing nerfs to cover up simple mistakes we go a bumpy road towards mediocrity.

 

     

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4 hours ago, TomReagan said:

I don't get whats so easy to infiltrate the FOB. You say its easy, but by that standard what is not easy in the game? Killing a tank? Easy, you just need to hit the right spot repeatedly from a concealed place where you can reload and ammunition nearby...but thats the problem, these conditions were a task becomes easy are usually not met in the game. For a CE to become able to kill a radio single-handedly without notifying anyone the enemy has to neglect basic game mechanics like barriers and thoughtful placement of the radio...and he has to lose the ability to hear. If we talking about implementing nerfs to cover up simple mistakes we go a bumpy road towards mediocrity.

If it were difficult to do then CE's sneaking in and destroying a FOB alone would be a rare occurrence, but it isn't. Whenever I see experienced players as CEs they are FOB hunting alone, and they're usually successful in getting a couple of FOBs.

 

I really enjoy the vehicle-infantry dynamic at the moment. I've had so many experiences where myself and a couple LATs/HATs from other squads have had to quickly coordinate in local to take out a vehicle, it's been great. However, arguing that a lot of layers have too many vehicles is certainly valid but I don't think the difficulty in taking out an individual vehicle is the problem. If vehicles where made more susceptible to infantry AT then they would need to be buffed to be more dangerous with something like thermal imaging.

 

The difference between the CEs FOB destroying capabilities and the infantry ATs vehicle destroying capabilities is that one doesn't require teamwork and the other really does. Sure, if someone is guarding the FOB constantly or it's been entombed in fortifications then that's harder for a lone CE to do, but neither of those defenses is interesting gameplay for the defenders whereas defending a FOB from a full squad is.

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The point is, if you need a whole squad to get to the radio the placing of c4 is senseless.... they just dig it and thats it. c4 doesn't matter any more...

 

its even rediculously weak against any vehicles....

Edited by Barbarossa

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dig + C4 is good for everyone.

 

Thanks OWI

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