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Post about Squad’s vision/direction by Merlin

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8 minutes ago, blacktea65 said:

"Squad was originally envisioned as a way to carry on the legacy of the popular “Project Reality” mod for battlefield 2. Founded by Will “Merlin” Stahl in early 2014, the project has grown to approx 22 developers the vast majority of who have contributed to the original MOD at some point in its long life.

Our goal for Squad is to take 10 years worth of experience, testing and research with the original Project Reality formula and apply it to a modern stand-alone engine. We want nothing less than to reclaim the genre of tactical shooters for the creators, modders and players who have waited a generation to get back to intelligent, satisfying gameplay."

 

with the original Project Reality formula sounds pretty spiritual on kickstarter indeed 

Lets break this down.

"Squad was originally envisioned as a way to carry on the legacy of the popular “Project Reality” mod for battlefield 2."

This basically means Squads focus was what made PR great, communication & teamwork. Something a lot of shooters lacked, and PR left a legacy behind spotlighting those two particular aspects.

"Our goal for Squad is to take 10 years worth of experience, testing and research with the original Project Reality formula and apply it to a modern stand-alone engine"

10 years worth of experience, meaning the development side of things when it comes to developing a project. Game design, modeling, art, balance, management, balance  etc They gained a lot of experience in those departments and had that foundation to create a team capable of developing Squad, which Squads focus was to build a game around Project Realities formula; Which is communication & teamwork.

"intelligent, satisfying gameplay"

This speaks for itself, and I am agreeance reduction in instant death instances, and the addition of buddy rallies goes against this.

Squad has never been advertised that it was going to be Project Reality 2, or a Sequel. It was always intended to be it's own game, but used the fundamentals of what made PR great(Communication & teamwork) to build the foundation of Squad.

Merlin pretty much sums it up in his post

Spoiler

 

The first was the idea that we wanted to branch off from PR and make something that while inspired by PR and trying to carry on a significant part of it's legacy, was in fact different. This was at the heart of the brand change to Squad. When it came to it, we were trying to embrace the fact that we felt that ultimately PR turned into something very different from where it started. PR in its early days was much more about taking battlefield 2 and making it realistic and tactical. Because the game started as something that was already arcadey, it ended up becoming an entirely different beast that carefully balanced teamwork, communication, realism and gameplay all together. While things like damage models, physics, movement speeds, and equipment accuracy all were critical to that original vision of Project Reality, new priorities entered like keeping the squad together, getting people talking to each other, getting people working together using the rules of the game, and making sure the gameplay was fun and engaging. All those things were balanced together out of interest of making a great game to support that realism vision.


With Squad, we aimed to make a successor rather than a sequel, and in many ways to try and capture a new vision that closer matched with the idea of balancing those basic tenets. In spirit, the fundamental shift I was aiming to see (as should be apparent by our shift towards the name Squad), was to have the primary pillars of the game become teamwork and communication.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Dubs said:


"Squad was originally envisioned as a way to carry on the legacy of the popular “Project Reality” mod for battlefield 2."

This basically means Squads focus was what made PR great, communication & teamwork. Something a lot of shooters lacked, and PR left a legacy behind spotlighting those two particular aspects.

You are completely right. But to be frank, compared to PR both communication and teamwork are more comparable to battlefield than toPR.

Me myself comes from the PR community and was one of the earliest supporters of this game, just like most of the backers came from.

 

5 minutes ago, Dubs said:


"Our goal for Squad is to take 10 years worth of experience, testing and research with the original Project Reality formula and apply it to a modern stand-alone engine"

10 years worth of experience, meaning the development side of things when it comes to developing a project. Game design, modeling, art, balance, management, balance  etc They gained a lot of experience in those departments and had that foundation to create a team capable of developing Squad, which Squads focus was to build a game around Project Realities formula; Which is communication & teamwork.

That 10 years of experience mean less when the project were supposed to leave alpha 12-24 months after the kickstarter campaign, that is four years ago....

 

5 minutes ago, Dubs said:

"intelligent, satisfying gameplay"

This speaks for itself, and I am agreeance reduction in instant death instances, and the addition of buddy rallies goes against this.

Squad has never been advertised that it was going to be Project Reality 2, or a Sequel. It was always intended to be it's own game, but used the fundamentals of what made PR great(Communication & teamwork) to build the foundation of Squad.

Merlin pretty much sums it up in his post

never advertised as PR2 but rather PR with nicer graphics and newer engine. But what was promised in the backer (PR) community was just that.

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22 minutes ago, Dubs said:

Lets break this down.

"Squad was originally envisioned as a way to carry on the legacy of the popular “Project Reality” mod for battlefield 2."

This basically means Squads focus was what made PR great, communication & teamwork. Something a lot of shooters lacked, and PR left a legacy behind spotlighting those two particular aspects.

"Our goal for Squad is to take 10 years worth of experience, testing and research with the original Project Reality formula and apply it to a modern stand-alone engine"

10 years worth of experience, meaning the development side of things when it comes to developing a project. Game design, modeling, art, balance, management, balance  etc They gained a lot of experience in those departments and had that foundation to create a team capable of developing Squad, which Squads focus was to build a game around Project Realities formula; Which is communication & teamwork.

"intelligent, satisfying gameplay"

This speaks for itself, and I am agreeance reduction in instant death instances, and the addition of buddy rallies goes against this.

Squad has never been advertised that it was going to be Project Reality 2, or a Sequel. It was always intended to be it's own game, but used the fundamentals of what made PR great(Communication & teamwork) to build the foundation of Squad.

Merlin pretty much sums it up in his post

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The first was the idea that we wanted to branch off from PR and make something that while inspired by PR and trying to carry on a significant part of it's legacy, was in fact different. This was at the heart of the brand change to Squad. When it came to it, we were trying to embrace the fact that we felt that ultimately PR turned into something very different from where it started. PR in its early days was much more about taking battlefield 2 and making it realistic and tactical. Because the game started as something that was already arcadey, it ended up becoming an entirely different beast that carefully balanced teamwork, communication, realism and gameplay all together. While things like damage models, physics, movement speeds, and equipment accuracy all were critical to that original vision of Project Reality, new priorities entered like keeping the squad together, getting people talking to each other, getting people working together using the rules of the game, and making sure the gameplay was fun and engaging. All those things were balanced together out of interest of making a great game to support that realism vision.


With Squad, we aimed to make a successor rather than a sequel, and in many ways to try and capture a new vision that closer matched with the idea of balancing those basic tenets. In spirit, the fundamental shift I was aiming to see (as should be apparent by our shift towards the name Squad), was to have the primary pillars of the game become teamwork and communication.

 

 

Of course there is a lot of room for interpretation. However, the thousands of backers which were mainly PR players backed you certainly not for turning a "spiritual successor" with an arcadish battlefield playstyle to attract casuals which cannot stand running for even 5 minutes without a firefight.

 

I know you are just trying to be polite but there is nothing polite about it when you twist your own flexible words years later and the basic expectations of the core community. Using PR nostalgia in your first trailers and annoucing PR dreams like fast ropes is very cheap marketing then. Anyway, I see that money outweighs loyality sooner or later. It does not matter how many day one supporters complain here, there will be always an excuse to justify maximal profit.

 

 

 

Edited by blacktea65

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8 hours ago, blacktea65 said:

"Everybody is fine" what kind of argument is that? You surely got some statistics to back that, stop missing the point. All I know from my clan, which purchased 20 clan copies (2 x clan packkges), and other PR clans that they wanted a successor of Project Reality with a decent engine as a standalone game. The devs made some promises so we, part of the old PR community, expect them to keep them.

I want the same thing you want. 

 

Well. I´ve already accepted that the devs won´t develop the game I want. They already have the money of all the people that wanted to see "the spiritual successor of PR". If you want your efforts to be useful focus on asking for the implementation of "tactical modes" or Great support for modding the game we want. Complaining about how they broke their promise or how they falsely advertised something will only be useful if you hire a very expensive lawyer. 

 

Accept it and fight for a supported mode or mod.

 

8 hours ago, Dubs said:

Squad was promised to be a spiritual successor, not a sequel. Two very different things.

If anything the words "spiritual successor" mean A LOT more than just "a sequel". 

 

This particular interpretation of words remind me of the curious interpretation of v13 surveys. 

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8 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

If anything the words "spiritual successor" mean A LOT more than just "a sequel". 

 

This particular interpretation of words remind me of the curious interpretation of v13 surveys. 

A spiritual successor in a way is kind of a sequel, but it directly isn't a complete sequel. It might share very similar direction, moral, design, theme etc but will have alternating things differing from the main thing it's taking inspiration from, whether it be a movie, book or game. 

It's taking the spirit of something, and using that inspiration to create something similar, but ultimately be it's own entity. Kind of life a spin-off series of something.

Like I've said before, I'm not a fan of certain things - Such as buddy rally, original dead-dead changes and zig zag running movement, as it does impact the game in a way that lessens more thought out decision making and is kind of cheesy. 

But, with Squad trying to be it's own entity and still in active development, we should expect ups & downs, random things being tested etc Only way to mould the game, is by testing things out. Sometimes we won't like the changes, sometimes we will - And as we've seen with v15.4, changes have come based off of feedback, and more to come.
 

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4 hours ago, Dubs said:

But, with Squad trying to be it's own entity and still in active development, we should expect ups & downs, random things being tested etc Only way to mould the game, is by testing things out. Sometimes we won't like the changes, sometimes we will - And as we've seen with v15.4, changes have come based off of feedback, and more to come.

No one is worried about testing things out, but that's considering testing out things that logically belong in the game.

 

The buddy rally and death changes came literally out of nowhere, with seemingly nobody requesting them, and they are here for several versions of the game now. The entire situation just absolutely reeks of some inexperienced game designer who got hired and tried to impress everyone with his radical new ideas, only for those new ideas to crash and burn while the company decided to stand by them for a little while longer just to avoid looking like they admit they made a horrible mistake by even letting these changes make their way into the game.

 

---

 

Guys, the entire debate about the spiritual successor thing is pointless. The devs have chosen their words carefully, in retrospective they can be interpreted in several ways and no one will tell you what was specifically intended, or whether was any plan at all. Maybe it was a sinister ploy to grab money from the PR community, desperate that their game was slowly dying. Maybe it's a story of a poor, independent studio finally realizing that despite their best efforts and intentions their direction wasn't financially viable, so they changed it. We won't ever know for sure, and even if we did it would change little about our current situation.

 

If you don't like the direction of Squad, create and support mods that give you the experience you want. We may yet get another PR out of this, even if it won't be made by OWI as we initially hoped.

Edited by MultiSquid

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