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Post about Squad’s vision/direction by Merlin

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59 minutes ago, fuzzhead said:

Considering the author of the mod, I doubt its a genuine mod, and I highly doubt he went thru the proper channels to get permission to use the PR logo like that.

true, although I'd love a PR mod, thats not how to do things

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

Considering the author of the mod, I doubt its a genuine mod, and I highly doubt he went thru the proper channels to get permission to use the PR logo like that.

Good points. Oh well, so much for that.

2 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

Considering the author of the mod, I doubt its a genuine mod, and I highly doubt he went thru the proper channels to get permission to use the PR logo like that.

Good points. Oh well, so much for that.

2 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

Considering the author of the mod, I doubt its a genuine mod, and I highly doubt he went thru the proper channels to get permission to use the PR logo like that.

Good points. Oh well, so much for that.

 

Oh my god. My frickin iphone. It’s not letting me delete this stuff.

Edited by fatalsushi

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On 2019-07-19 at 7:03 AM, Good-Try Greg said:

"I do think a big thing we often find ourselves doing is finding a sensible hybrid between the more PUBG-esque gameplay / competitive folks , and the more Arma-esque realism folks. For me the idea has always been to try and bridge the gap between the two by unifying people around features that get people talking to each other, and working together. Namely teamwork and the communication being the glue between realism and gameplay."

 

Eep. Comp + Arma hybrid sounds like my personal version of hell.

 

Damn if BF2 wasn't lightning in a bottle. A mainstream game with milsim ambitions and functional squad tactics that still fundamentally worked even without communication, just waiting for some clever modders to crack open it's potential. It's influence is greatly missed.

Any decent shooter with a high enough skill ceiling will see its fair share of "competitive" (aka mechanically good) players. The trick is in designing a system that encourages teamwork as the optimal way to play. Easier said than done with 40v40 servers. This is easier for smaller-scale games like CS:GO, or in PUBG squads where there are fewer teammates to coordinate with. In Squad if you manage to get a full 9 experienced players together you can run the objectives as a combined arms spec ops monster hit squad. I don't think this would be any different in BF2 or Arma. In pub games this usually means the match is decided by the few good squads who trample the enemy noobs faster than their opposing counterparts.

 

The game would be better IMO if these monster squads actually had to rely on the rest of the team for support. Since I started playing in 2016 the focus of AAS has always been on throwing bodies on the caps, getting multikills, and rolling on to the next cap ASAP. Ideally, this is done with as many high-skilled "competitive" shooters as possible, explosively attacking and keeping the pressure on the enemy HAB. If you watch these squads' behaviour, it usually boils down to run-and-gun, using all the shooter tactics in the book to close on and eliminate the enemy. If they go down, they usually respawn ASAP on an aggressive rally and fill in the gaps of their squad's surround of the enemy; constantly pushing, leap-frogging, flanking until the enemy are dying on their HAB. As soon as the HAB is down, they're off to the next cap to rinse and repeat (if the opposing team was quick enough to even regroup). Generally they can disregard defence as there's a good chance they can double neutral or come straight back should the enemy counter fast enough.

 

This behaviour translates into team deathmatch on the middle cap in competitive matches, or in pub games with teams of equal skill. HABs will be placed ~100 m from the cap and the firefight will last all game until someone loses all the tickets. It's a K:D fragfest.

 

What enables this style of gameplay is the ability to respawn indefinitely without any regard for what goes on behind the frontlines. Apart from the odd ammo run or mortar FOB, logistics can be ignored and all the best shooters can stay on the field without having to rely on or support the guys driving logi, defending the HAB or capping the point. As long as the shooters focus on their K:D (with emphasis on the K), they are doing what's best for the team. I'd like to see this change, and this is coming from a frequent topfragging SL who very much enjoys shooting faces :P 

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On 7/21/2019 at 3:40 AM, RB79BALL said:

The missing features would be breacher's grappling hook, dual function sights and thermal optics. Reverting back a few patch will give us the PR rally point system.

Yes, but btw shouldn't that be part of core gameplay? Huh... I hope all this recent changes are just a experiment...

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Posted (edited)
On 7/20/2019 at 9:40 PM, RB79BALL said:

The missing features would be breacher's grappling hook, dual function sights and thermal optics. Reverting back a few patch will give us the PR rally point system.

Reverting a few patches WILL NOT GIVE US THE PR rally point system, and I don't know why everyone keeps thinking that. In PR Rallies get destroyed after 60s unless within 2 grid spaces(300m) of a friendly FOB/Flag/APC. Also, if an enemy is within 125m of a rally it destroys it. Also, in PR FOB spawns get disabled if 1 enemy is within 10m, 2 within 40m, 4/100m, and 8/150m.

 

By comparison, in Squad V13 you could place a rally anywhere indefinitely, as long as enemies stay 50m away from it, and HABs get overrun in 30m radius. I should mention that Squad NEVER had the same Rally/FOB mechanics as PR.

 

The spawn system in PR is much less powerful, which is why the gameplay is so much slower and more tactical. In PR you can't put FOBs directly on Flags, because they will get overrun too easily.  And you can't plop rallies anywhere you want for magical reinforcement. In fact, indefinite rallies contradict the entire point of a logistical system, since they require no logistics to operate! Also the ability to plop rallies behind enemy lines ruins the line of battle, and focus all combat directly around the flags.

Edited by dolmaface

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@pinko

Good analyse pinko, that is a pretty good summary off what Squad is at the moment. And it is really sad because, it is so far behind PR gameplay.

Teamplay is almost near ZERO and world war 2 soviet human wave doctrine is the only viable tactic.

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17 hours ago, pinko said:

Any decent shooter with a high enough skill ceiling will see its fair share of "competitive" (aka mechanically good) players. The trick is in designing a system that encourages teamwork as the optimal way to play. Easier said than done with 40v40 servers. This is easier for smaller-scale games like CS:GO, or in PUBG squads where there are fewer teammates to coordinate with. In Squad if you manage to get a full 9 experienced players together you can run the objectives as a combined arms spec ops monster hit squad. I don't think this would be any different in BF2 or Arma. In pub games this usually means the match is decided by the few good squads who trample the enemy noobs faster than their opposing counterparts.

 

The game would be better IMO if these monster squads actually had to rely on the rest of the team for support. Since I started playing in 2016 the focus of AAS has always been on throwing bodies on the caps, getting multikills, and rolling on to the next cap ASAP. Ideally, this is done with as many high-skilled "competitive" shooters as possible, explosively attacking and keeping the pressure on the enemy HAB. If you watch these squads' behaviour, it usually boils down to run-and-gun, using all the shooter tactics in the book to close on and eliminate the enemy. If they go down, they usually respawn ASAP on an aggressive rally and fill in the gaps of their squad's surround of the enemy; constantly pushing, leap-frogging, flanking until the enemy are dying on their HAB. As soon as the HAB is down, they're off to the next cap to rinse and repeat (if the opposing team was quick enough to even regroup). Generally they can disregard defence as there's a good chance they can double neutral or come straight back should the enemy counter fast enough.

 

This behaviour translates into team deathmatch on the middle cap in competitive matches, or in pub games with teams of equal skill. HABs will be placed ~100 m from the cap and the firefight will last all game until someone loses all the tickets. It's a K:D fragfest.

 

What enables this style of gameplay is the ability to respawn indefinitely without any regard for what goes on behind the frontlines. Apart from the odd ammo run or mortar FOB, logistics can be ignored and all the best shooters can stay on the field without having to rely on or support the guys driving logi, defending the HAB or capping the point. As long as the shooters focus on their K:D (with emphasis on the K), they are doing what's best for the team. I'd like to see this change, and this is coming from a frequent topfragging SL who very much enjoys shooting faces :P 

 

52 minutes ago, Axel said:

@pinko

Good analyse pinko, that is a pretty good summary off what Squad is at the moment. And it is really sad because, it is so far behind PR gameplay.

Teamplay is almost near ZERO and world war 2 soviet human wave doctrine is the only viable tactic.

 

I think that by now you guys should realice and accept that SQUAD is not going to change. 

 

The vanilla version has become the new BF. All we can hope for is for devs to implement some kind of setting that affect gameplay for servers to choose from, such as Buddy rally ON/OFF, Insta death ON/OFF, Dead-dead ON/OFF, Rally timer ON/OFF, Respawn timer 60sec, 80sec, 100sec. ,etc.

 

They already have our money, and they don´t have the need to listen to us anymore. And the influx of new players is making people that supported this game because it was going to be a tactical shooter a smaller and smaller part of the general community. 

 

Let us dedicate our efforts to ask the devs to at least provide with settings or mod support for the kind of gameplay we want to see.

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Why always compare it to PR anyway? a "spiritual" successor does not mean a straight copy of it. Sure PR was  (and is) a great game, but it also was so popular because there were no real alternitives for it imho. It was not too complex  as arma series, but yet provided enough depth and tactical gameplay to be appealing and familiar to say, people who came from Battlefield games. 

Its a game, no need to crack your head over it, sure it has its flaws but i still enjoy it as it is and dont really care about "how long is the rally timer", "fob building" etc. Although the game has been heading for the "faster pace" style lately

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3 hours ago, Slinky[EST] said:

Why always compare it to PR anyway? a "spiritual" successor does not mean a straight copy of it. Sure PR was  (and is) a great game, but it also was so popular because there were no real alternitives for it imho. It was not too complex  as arma series, but yet provided enough depth and tactical gameplay to be appealing and familiar to say, people who came from Battlefield games. 

Its a game, no need to crack your head over it, sure it has its flaws but i still enjoy it as it is and dont really care about "how long is the rally timer", "fob building" etc. Although the game has been heading for the "faster pace" style lately

I didnt play for 3 months. I played 6 rounds yesterday. I wanted to like it. I didn´t touch it today. I probably wont until they add server options or somebody comes up with a mod I like.

 

Why? Well…. it´s not special anymore. I feel all i´m doing is spawning, running, killing, dying, and reset…. 

 

People enjoy it . GREAT! 

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Announcing ATHENA, a mod inspired by Project Reality. The vision of this mod is to produce gameplay and tactics similar to BF2: Project Reality. The following changes are made identical or very similar to Project Reality v1.5

  • FOB Disable Spawn Radius increased to 100m with 3 enemies
  • Rallies get destroyed after 60s unless within 100m of friendly HAB
  • Rally overrun radius increased to 125m
  • Instadeath

Future plans include removing ticket bleed, and making HABs smaller so that they are easier to hide.

Available now in the workshop!
 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, dolmaface said:

Announcing ATHENA, a mod inspired by Project Reality. The vision of this mod is to produce gameplay and tactics similar to BF2: Project Reality. The following changes are made identical or very similar to Project Reality v1.5

  • FOB Disable Spawn Radius increased to 100m with 3 enemies
  • Rallies get destroyed after 60s unless within 100m of friendly HAB
  • Rally overrun radius increased to 125m
  • Instadeath

Future plans include removing ticket bleed, and making HABs smaller so that they are easier to hide.

Available now in the workshop!
 

is there a posibillity of getting this fixed too? or atleast consider some changes to it?

-Lower sprint speed

-More Recoil on guns

-More sway if you run and gun

-More TOW/ATGM damage

-More splash damage on mortars and HE nades (raise the cost of resupplying)

-Limit FOB placements to 5 FOB's per team, 2 TOWS, 2 Mortars. to prevent spamming

 

Edited by zarenx

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, zarenx said:

is there a posibillity of getting this fixed too? or atleast consider some changes to it?

-Lower sprint speed

-More Recoil on guns

-More sway if you run and gun

-More TOW/ATGM damage

-More splash damage on mortars and HE nades (raise the cost of resupplying)

 

Yes, I am making a list. It will take a lot of time to do this stuff. Unfortunately modding in the UE4 SDK editor is not as simple as just changing numbers, to make each change you have to make a copy of each item you are changing, its children, and its parent scripts, then re-attach them all. So I think changing weapon stats means essentially making new variants of all the weapons in the game, and all of the scripts each weapon is attached to.

Edited by dolmaface

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Posted (edited)

Woha, im not that familiar with the UE4 but that is allot of work :S

 

Edited by zarenx

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When one plays with a  great platoon and SL the game works like a charm. For the purist, I feel your pain, but the game needs to be more approachable for casual gamers, the arcade lovers will always gravitate to COD or BF.
My personal op is the revive and heal needs more tweaking maybe go back one or two iterations.
I like the faster run and walk as it is not a  walking simulator any longer.
There is a balance between reality, authenticity, and gameplay, I hope the devs find it for the benefit of all Squadies
But right now when played with strategy and tactics it works well and the game is enjoyable.

Find the right clan and the right leaders that is where it is at.

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Posted (edited)

 

2 hours ago, Shaldag said:

When one plays with a  great platoon and SL the game works like a charm. For the purist, I feel your pain, but the game needs to be more approachable for casual gamers, the arcade lovers will always gravitate to COD or BF.
My personal op is the revive and heal needs more tweaking maybe go back one or two iterations.
I like the faster run and walk as it is not a  walking simulator any longer.
There is a balance between reality, authenticity, and gameplay, I hope the devs find it for the benefit of all Squadies
But right now when played with strategy and tactics it works well and the game is enjoyable.

Find the right clan and the right leaders that is where it is at.

i really want more people to play this game. but people seem to forget that if it had not been for us in the PR community and our years of backing and donations there would never have been a game called squad. we donated and backed on the promise that this was going to be a follow up on PR with a modern formula. then i excpect them to follow up on their promises. this is from the kickstarter:

 

 ""Squad was originally envisioned as a way to carry on the legacy of the popular “Project Reality” mod for battlefield 2. Founded by Will “Merlin” Stahl in early 2014, the project has grown to approx 22 developers the vast majority of who have contributed to the original MOD at some point in its long life.

 

Our goal for Squad is to take 10 years worth of experience, testing and research with the original Project Reality formula and apply it to a modern stand-alone engine. We want nothing less than to reclaim the genre of tactical shooters for the creators, modders and players who have waited a generation to get back to intelligent, satisfying gameplay."

 

 

Edited by zarenx

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Posted (edited)

You could also try to add as many factions as possible. Like attracting players via countries like India, China, Germany, Turkey etc.

 

I get your financial interests as a business however you also have a promise to your first hour backers which is basically the former PR community. You had a vision so please don't turn it into something what it is not supposed to be.

 

Also some basic features  like thermal sighting or aircraft are still not available. I know you are working on them, however the game is still not fleshed out and I think shifting towards something arcadish could turn into a dissapointment for the current playerbase.

Edited by blacktea65

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18 minutes ago, blacktea65 said:

You could also try to add as many factions as possible. Like attracting players via countries like India, China, Germany, Turkey etc.

 

I get your financial interests as a business however you also have a promise to your first hour backers which is basically the former PR community. You had a vision so please don't turn it into something what it is not supposed to be.

 

Also some basic features  like thermal sighting or aircraft are still not available. I know you are working on them, however the game is still not fleshed out and I think shifting towards something arcadish could turn into a dissapointment for the current playerbase.

There wont be oficial flyable Jets. They said that some time ago. So don´t expect them.

 

25 minutes ago, zarenx said:

 

i really want more people to play this game. but people seem to forget that if it had not been for us in the PR community and our years of backing and donations there would never have been a game called squad. we donated and backed on the promise that this was going to be a follow up on PR with a modern formula. then i excpect them to follow up on their promises. this is from the kickstarter:

 

 ""Squad was originally envisioned as a way to carry on the legacy of the popular “Project Reality” mod for battlefield 2. Founded by Will “Merlin” Stahl in early 2014, the project has grown to approx 22 developers the vast majority of who have contributed to the original MOD at some point in its long life.

 

Our goal for Squad is to take 10 years worth of experience, testing and research with the original Project Reality formula and apply it to a modern stand-alone engine. We want nothing less than to reclaim the genre of tactical shooters for the creators, modders and players who have waited a generation to get back to intelligent, satisfying gameplay."

 

 

 

On the other hand… join the PR style mod (ATHENA) somebody has already started working on it. SQUAD has decided it´s way. And everybody is fine with that, as long as we can mod it or MUCH BETTER, Devs supported a "more tactical" mode (NO buddy rally, dead-dead, some more insta death, etc.)

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The kickstarter was successful only due to PR players.

Me personally paid $65 for my clan packed over 4 years ago and the game hans not yet left alpha stage, even though the campaign said two years then beta.

 

WHERE IS MY FAST ROPES? (and clan patch)

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still though, we paid money for the game and some of us paid 1000 of dollars to get the game funded on a promise of a sequal of Project Reality. im not accepting a mod as a solution!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

On the other hand… join the PR style mod (ATHENA) somebody has already started working on it. SQUAD has decided it´s way. And everybody is fine with that, as long as we can mod it or MUCH BETTER, Devs supported a "more tactical" mode (NO buddy rally, dead-dead, some more insta death, etc.)

"Everybody is fine" what kind of argument is that? You surely got some statistics to back that, stop missing the point. All I know from my clan, which purchased 20 clan copies (2 x clan packkges), and other PR clans that they wanted a successor of Project Reality with a decent engine as a standalone game. The devs made some promises so we, part of the old PR community, expect them to keep them.

Edited by blacktea65

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11 minutes ago, zarenx said:

still though, we paid money for the game and some of us paid 1000 of dollars to get the game funded on a promise of a sequal of Project Reality. im not accepting a mod as a solution!

Squad was promised to be a spiritual successor, not a sequel. Two very different things.

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Posted (edited)

https://imgur.com/o0f2xvB
this picture is from the kickstarter. it being a spiritual successor was not metioned once under the kickstarter campaign or in any of the meetings that was held on Discord or teamspeak back then. 

Edited by zarenx

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1 hour ago, Dubs said:

Squad was promised to be a spiritual successor, not a sequel. Two very different things.

"Squad was originally envisioned as a way to carry on the legacy of the popular “Project Reality” mod for battlefield 2. Founded by Will “Merlin” Stahl in early 2014, the project has grown to approx 22 developers the vast majority of who have contributed to the original MOD at some point in its long life.

Our goal for Squad is to take 10 years worth of experience, testing and research with the original Project Reality formula and apply it to a modern stand-alone engine. We want nothing less than to reclaim the genre of tactical shooters for the creators, modders and players who have waited a generation to get back to intelligent, satisfying gameplay."

 

with the original Project Reality formula sounds pretty spiritual on kickstarter indeed 

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Posted (edited)

If they only got rid of the awful zig-zagging and turning on a dime I’d be happy. The new movement has completely turned me off from infantry gameplay as it’s too much about twitch skills now. That’s one thing I feel really goes against the PR spirit since PR was more about good tactics and positioning.

Edited by fatalsushi

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