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Zylfrax791

Exponential RAAS

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From my observations the trend in AAS mode has been to try to program the game to guide and focus the gameplay to the center flags. Various versions of Squad have evolved the mode with attributes like ticket bleed, fog-of-war and increasing/decreasing tickets won or lost on the flags. These have all been great ideas to guide the game towards a central focus.

 

That said, whilst these efforts have changed the gameplay quite drastically nevertheless in the typical fashion that matches are played out in the beginning the first 2-3 flags are still referred to as "The Backcaps"... So basically its always the same questions at the beginning of the match; "hey, who's getting the backcaps" or "hey, you said you were getting the backcaps, what happened" blah blah blah the same lame crap every time.

 

So I have a better idea that would be super easy to implement. So basically the premise would be that the first neutral flags would require a great deal more people to initially capture them and this number would decrease as you got closer to the center flag.

 

After all the neutral flags are captured and the battle is focused on the center flag and captured then the next enemy flag off of the center that your team would be attacking would require a 2:1 ratio to capture, enemies next flag 3:1 and so on. In addition to making the flags much harder to capture there would also be a bonus though by increasing the ticket costs to say 50/50.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

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Short answer, yes and no.

 

In detail, the current mechanics make it very easy to capture neutral flags at the start of the round, which leads to squads dropping off 1 member on each cap. Almost everyone thinks it's a chore to do, simply because it requires such low effort, it's just viewed as a distraction. This leads to the situation you describe and you are absolutely correct in that.

 

However, if the closer you get to the enemy main the more people you need to cap, i'm afraid it will further incentivize the current tendency to stack as many bodies on cap as possible (and the defenders will do the same to maintain the needed ratio), making the meat grinder aspect even worse.

 

A middle of the road solution could be to simply require more people/time/both to capture flags in general, but have the same requirements for all flags, regardless of distance from main. Neutral flags could still be a bit easier to cap than already occupied ones, but overall they would take more effort than they currently do. For example, imagine if even the backcaps would require a full squad to capture in a reasonable amount of time. Well, since we're here, hey, why not build a backup FOB as well?

 

This slows the game down a bit, gives SLs some extra time to coordinate before the game reaches the "middle flag rush" phase, and provides time to place down more FOBs, which is a crucial problem in a lot of public matches.

 

EDIT:

This opens up more potential strategies as well. A longer cap timer could mean that the enemy would be able to block or delay one of you backcaps for example. If it's done with buddy rallies and infinite revives it would just be another form of the rush meta and it would be problematic. But if it was done by armor squads and helicopter transport (maybe with a bit of FOBing to deny an area with emplacements), it could lead to some interesting gameplay, because the enemy would be able to do the same with their own armor and choppers. Plus, you would actually risk valuable assets to pull it off, very close to the enemy main (which means they can reinforce faster and push you back).

 

It then becomes a case of choosing how risky you want to be. Such a blocking/delaying rush is high risk/high gain, so it would probably be just 1 squad per team trying to delay the enemy's backcaps. They would get pushed back most of the time (especially without buddy rallies and infinite revives), the only question would be how fast this could happen and how many caps their team has managed to get in the meantime.

 

It worked this way in PR for the most part, and you got a lot of fluidity between matches, even if it was the same map. The main problem with this mechanic was that blocking the enemy's first cap right outside main could completely steamroll a team very fast, so most servers had a rule that didn't allow rushing the first enemy cap, similar to a rule that prohibits camping the enemy main that most Squad servers have.

 

In Squad this is not so much a problem however, because in RAAS you would have to actually scout where the enemy team is massing to identify their first cap and by the time you spot it, their capping would be well under way. For regular AAS they could apply your idea but only for each team's first cap: the team for which the flag is considered the first cap has an advantage in capping it, or the enemy team needs a higher numerical superiority ratio to block the cap, or both. This could prevent blocking the first cap and camping the exit out of main, without even having to rely on admins to police and enforce a similar rule.

 

In order for things to work that way however, there are quite a few things that have to support that change and work as cogs in the overall machine. We would have to lose buddy rallies and infinite revives, bring back instadeath and make vehicles more vulnerable, This way there would be increased some risk and some tradeoff to rushing, so people wouldn't be inclined to do it every single game.

Edited by Burningbeard80

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7 minutes ago, Burningbeard80 said:

Short answer, yes and no.

 

In detail, the current mechanics make it very easy to capture neutral flags at the start of the round, which leads to squads dropping off 1 member on each cap. Almost everyone thinks it's a chore to do, simply because it requires such low effort, it's just viewed as a distraction. This leads to the situation you describe and you are absolutely correct in that.

 

However, if the closer you get to the enemy main the more people you need to cap, i'm afraid it will further incentivize the current tendency to stack as many bodies on cap as possible (and the defenders will do the same to maintain the needed ratio), making the meat grinder aspect even worse.

 

A middle of the road solution could be to simply require more people/time/both to capture flags in general, but have the same requirements for all flags, regardless of distance from main. Neutral flags could still be a bit easier to cap than already occupied ones, but overall they would take more effort than they currently do. For example, imagine if even the backcaps would require a full squad to capture in a reasonable amount of time. Well, since we're here, hey, why not build a backup FOB as well?

 

This slows the game down a bit, gives SLs some extra time to coordinate before the game reaches the "middle flag rush" phase, and provides time to place down more FOBs, which is a crucial problem in a lot of public matches.

Another idea I had was that when your team has a flag that's currently in defend status you physically need to retain a full squad of 9 players on it otherwise it drains down in two minutes and goes neutral.

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You replied as i was editing my original post, i added some more detail and a case where your idea would make a lot of sense to implement :)

 

As for flag draining, i'm afraid it would create a "tunnel vision" problem. A lot of the flags have a small cap radius and it's not specified on the map either. So most people would tend to hunker down in a couple of buildings to prevent the drain, remain blind and then get blown up by a sapper with IEDs or get taken by complete surprise, and there goes the flag. Actually, we already see this a lot even without a drain mechanic. If they could post a perimeter outside to spot incoming enemies it would be a more effective form of defense, but flag drain would prevent that completely. Currently people don't do it very often because they follow a certain meta and playstyle (which can be adjusted/changed somewhat), with this mechanic in place they wouldn't do it at all because it would downright punish them.

 

Such a mechanic also gives something to the attacker for free: the defender has to maintain presence within the limits of the active defend flag and gets limited options in maneuvering and positioning ("i wish i could garrison that building that gives us perfect overwatch on the enemy's approach, but it's outside the cap radius and we'll start flag draining if we move there"), but the attacker can neutralize for free if the defender moves a few meters away. For the design to be balanced, you'd have to provide another mechanic that  gives the attackers an incentive to push (keep in mind that balanced doesn't necessarily mean symmetrical however). Otherwise they could just mortar the place and call in the commander's off-map attack (if/when that gets added to the game) to kill at least 3-4 guys, then wait outside the flag in an ambush, picking off everyone that tries to go in and waiting for it to go neutral. Sure, some people might make it inside, but if a minimum of 9 are needed to prevent a flag drain the attackers would win with very low effort, and then they would have the same problem trying to defend their new flag.

 

Still, your suggestions are interesting even if i don't agree with 100% of them. I'm just a computer programmer, so whenever someone posts an idea for a mechanic change, my brain is trained to instinctively go "what's the easiest way to poke holes in this mechanic, break and abuse it?" You have to be able to think like a troll to prevent trolling, and never trust the end users of the software to use it in the intended manner xD

 

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After months of playing of RAAS now its pretty obvious that there is kind of a predictable path in the programming that could perhaps use some tweaking. It seems like there are lanes and everyone that has any kind of time in the game is able to guess where the next flags are going to be. This kind of defeats the whole principle of "random".

 

For example that current Gorodok layer typically for Russians goes Fruit Farm, Yard Apartments, Akim Upper or Lower and then down to the Radio Tower or across the river. Some extreme variations would be nice.

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On 26/06/2019 at 5:01 AM, Burningbeard80 said:

the current mechanics make it very easy to capture neutral flags at the start of the round, which leads to squads dropping off 1 member on each cap

neutrals should be easy(er) because they are undefended.

of course you wouldn't need a workaround if there was no field-of-neutrals to start with. <(this is a broken AAS mechanic, classically speaking)

On 26/06/2019 at 5:01 AM, Burningbeard80 said:

However, if the closer you get to the enemy main the more people you need to cap,

...

i'm afraid it will further incentivize the current tendency to stack as many bodies on cap as possible

for the first part: if this is incremental per-cap be careful not to end up with a requirement of 10:1 by the time you get to the Nth cap from center - could be problematic.

for the second part: the most basic premise of AAS (or any other Capture point based mechanic) is that weight of numbers is required to control a cap and then consistent higher-than-the-enemy numbers must be maintained to own the cap - which is exactly "stacking bodies on the cap".

On 26/06/2019 at 5:30 AM, Burningbeard80 said:

If they could post a perimeter outside to spot incoming enemies it would be a more effective form of defense, but flag drain would prevent that completely.

not if it is just one or two out of a whole squad going spotter, it won't. if the flag would still drain then either there are too many enemies (you never gunna win anyway) or those spotters are effectively  "over-run" and need to retreat inside the cap. (they were too far forward anyway). if you're dumb enough to post the entire squad outside as a perimeter then you probably deserve to lose the cap.

On 26/06/2019 at 5:30 AM, Burningbeard80 said:

then wait outside the flag in an ambush, picking off everyone that tries to go in and waiting for it to go neutral.

how does staying outside the cap zone make it still go down if there are enemies inside the zone?

or, if there are no enemies inside then how do you make the cap go down without your own team mates inside?

 

Squad is an Objective based game. sadly, Squad has tickets, completely removing any Objective based requirement to win a match. < this is also a reason for most of the spawn(HAB) raping (etc.) that happens/happened; purely driven by ticket cost to the enemy.

 

(just my opinion)>  unfortunately, from what iv'e seen so far in probably 70-80% of videos from the last 2 years, people are far more interested in faffing about outside the cap's, in RPG-mode and having piles of extra mechanics to support said faffing, added to the game, whilst seemingly ignoring the basic premise of the game - can't recall the number of times iv'e seen peeps lose position/cap because they're too interested in RPG'ing outside the cap. i know peeps want their imershuns and i have no problem with that but they also keep pretending that they're playing an objective based game, unless of course they believe The Games Objective is to waste as much time as possible between taking objectives.

 

things been said before:

1- AAS in Squad is broken and has been since day one.

2- remove the 'field-of-neutrals'

3- remove ticket system

of course this would require walking away from years of BF's indoctrination.

 

again, just my opinion.

 

forgot this>

8 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

After months of playing of RAAS now its pretty obvious that there is kind of a predictable path in the programming

yeah a proper RNGesus would be better than random selection of fixed lanes.

 

Edited by LaughingJack

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