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A13 came out bringing so many bad features, making the game even more arcade that what it already was

then on the same week I played the new version of Sandstorm, which included a new gamemode called Hardcore, and I had this idea, we need something like this in Squad too... a new gamemode called Hardcore, or whatever

 

in this gamemode, you will be kicked on the balls and punched to the face with these changes:

 

- suppression works both ways <==> | >==<

- no nametags rendering through walls, no nametags or friendly icons above heads beyond 50 meters

- no ZOOM for nonscoped guns, only weapon steadiness when pressed SHIFT (but make it last longer, 10 secs?)

- rework of stamina system, because now its unrealistic

- greatly decrease max sprint speed (around 25% slower that current speed, much more realistic)

- bring back INSTA-DEATH (why devs?), and make it 3 minutes cooldown

- remove the magical buddy rally

 

these features shoundnt use much "dev time" to put in the game, and if you do so, and the mode is well accepted, we can have more sophisticated stuff in later releases

cant wait to play on something like this...

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Posted (edited)

Also
- no nametags at all
cuz you said

1 hour ago, EA_SUCKS said:

kicked on the balls and punched to the face

The max I would go for is maybe nametags within 5 meters (but it really shouldn't be hard to find your mates without them IMHO).

Also insta death is a little sad when the medic insists on reviving you without clearing the area first (but maybe the mentality would change).

 

I really would like HC mode, because crawling in the bushes, listening to all the shooting, explosions and tanks driving around makes me feel very HC. It all stops when I see a nametag or something like that.

Edited by IsawU

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I think it´s fair to asume that by now, devs are going for an option that keeps money flowing in (more arcadish/accesible) style, but they Will provide support for modding or alternative methods (hardcore) to keep more tactical oriented players interested.

 

That´s all I can hope now. 

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1 hour ago, Thegreenzzz said:

will it be fun? i dont think so

 

Then people who don´t find it fun can keep playing the other modes.

 

No problem with that….everybody wins.

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2 hours ago, Thegreenzzz said:

will it be fun? i dont think so

To me it sounds way more fun than the current squad mechanics, but my definition of fun is definitely not the norm 

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Obviously any "Hardcore Mode" wouldn't be complete without the cumbersome and unrealistic nannycam role restrictions completely removed thus allowing the SL to pick any role for himself and also build a custom squad as well.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Obviously any "Hardcore Mode" wouldn't be complete without the cumbersome and unrealistic nannycam role restrictions completely removed thus allowing the SL to pick any role for himself and also build a custom squad as well.

Dude, come on. You've got to stop trying to plug the same old agenda of yours everytime you notice a new thread has opened. Pushing the same stuff over and over irregardless of what the thread is about won't make people listen to you, it will just make them tune you out like a white noise. Just stop and think whether what you're saying is appropriate for the discussion - not everything needs to come down to removing the "nanny rules and restrictions".

 

I think it's self-evident that this suggestion is much better suited to the current state and direction of Squad where I'm sure a few roflcopter squads made out entirely of marksmen or grenadiers would fit right in. What it isn't suited for is a hardcore mod. 

 

As for the thread itself, I'm surprised that there haven't been news of any hardcore mod getting made by now, either there are some sneaky modders or it really isn't in such high demand, I'm hoping for the former. 

Edited by MultiSquid

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7 hours ago, Psyrus said:

To me it sounds way more fun than the current squad mechanics, but my definition of fun is definitely not the norm 

Same for me, i would enjoy that too.

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6 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

Dude, come on. You've got to stop trying to plug the same old agenda of yours everytime you notice a new thread has opened. Pushing the same stuff over and over irregardless of what the thread is about won't make people listen to you, it will just make them tune you out like a white noise. Just stop and think whether what you're saying is appropriate for the discussion - not everything needs to come down to removing the "nanny rules and restrictions".

 

I think it's self-evident that this suggestion is much better suited to the current state and direction of Squad where I'm sure a few roflcopter squads made out entirely of marksmen or grenadiers would fit right in. What it isn't suited for is a hardcore mod. 

 

As for the thread itself, I'm surprised that there haven't been news of any hardcore mod getting made by now, either there are some sneaky modders or it really isn't in such high demand, I'm hoping for the former. 

Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking? Everyone is inherently incapable of thinking for themselves even in "Hardcore Mode" so we need to bring along extra didees and a rechargeable bottle warmers right? Funny thing is in other similar games in the genre without one-size-fits-all role restrictions players end up doing the exact opposite of your scenario.

 

The fact is any game community is a reflection of societal preferences now more than ever. People like customization and choices but Squad is the exact opposite of that which is more than likely one of leading reasons along with toxic clan servers and all their supplemental rule sets that it has so few players compared to units sold.

 

Of course the knee jerk response is always "but realism" which is completely laughable especially now that it's one of the only games in the entire fps genre where you typically can't actually instagib headshot people with your cookie cutter MilSim LARP squad anyway. Using the "realism" crutch or "PR this" or "PR that" mantra won't make you guys happy until there's literally under 1000 daily peaks will it?

 

Squad has moments of absolute brilliance on so many levels but it's absolutely crippled wearing this rotting 100 lbs. PR albatross around it's neck for eternity.

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Well, it's neither due to absolute realism nor nostalgia that people reference PR. It's because restrictions worked. You get everyone on the same page with regards to what goes and what doesn't, you get better games on average as a result. It's just a lot of simple stuff that might be trivial on their own but add up when you look at the big picture, which you don't have to deal with anymore (restrictions take care of them) and you can focus on the game.

 

E.g., you don't have to explain to your squad mates at the start of each and every match why it's not a good idea to 1-man vehicles, or use a chopper as a solo taxi, or go lone sniper in the middle of nowhere, etc etc.  What a squad does is in the squad's  name, it's easy for people to join a squad that will play the way they like just by looking at the name, and you don't have to worry about vehicles and assets being taken and abandoned or lost by random blueberries. You want to drive a tank? Join the tank squad or create one. Everyone knows where the pieces of the puzzle go, so you can just think about your plan for the round.

 

As a result, some of my most mediocre matches in PR were better and more memorable than a lot of my best rounds in Squad. As more content is added and the game is fleshed out i believe we'll get there (and we might even get a PR mod for squad), so i'm not climbing atop the fences with the pitchfork in hand. I don't have an axe to grind, i'm having fun, but if something is obviously missing i can say it's missing.

 

That being said, most of what made PR a great experience was not even a hard coded thing, so i think we'll get an option to play Squad the same way at some point. It's just server rules enforced by admins and scripts, so if anyone doesn't like it they can just play on another server. I don't mind having more choices to bring more people in. What i do mind is when a specific version of the game is pushed as the only viable choice though, especially if it makes the game the same as any other shooter out on the market.

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34 minutes ago, Burningbeard80 said:

Well, it's neither due to absolute realism nor nostalgia that people reference PR. It's because restrictions worked. You get everyone on the same page with regards to what goes and what doesn't, you get better games on average as a result. It's just a lot of simple stuff that might be trivial on their own but add up when you look at the big picture, which you don't have to deal with anymore (restrictions take care of them) and you can focus on the game.

 

E.g., you don't have to explain to your squad mates at the start of each and every match why it's not a good idea to 1-man vehicles, or use a chopper as a solo taxi, or go lone sniper in the middle of nowhere, etc etc.  What a squad does is in the squad's  name, it's easy for people to join a squad that will play the way they like just by looking at the name, and you don't have to worry about vehicles and assets being taken and abandoned or lost by random blueberries. You want to drive a tank? Join the tank squad or create one. Everyone knows where the pieces of the puzzle go, so you can just think about your plan for the round.

 

As a result, some of my most mediocre matches in PR were better and more memorable than a lot of my best rounds in Squad. As more content is added and the game is fleshed out i believe we'll get there (and we might even get a PR mod for squad), so i'm not climbing atop the fences with the pitchfork in hand. I don't have an axe to grind, i'm having fun, but if something is obviously missing i can say it's missing.

 

That being said, most of what made PR a great experience was not even a hard coded thing, so i think we'll get an option to play Squad the same way at some point. It's just server rules enforced by admins and scripts, so if anyone doesn't like it they can just play on another server. I don't mind having more choices to bring more people in. What i do mind is when a specific version of the game is pushed as the only viable choice though, especially if it makes the game the same as any other shooter out on the market.

"PR Mod for Squad"

 

That's hilarious sounding. Think about how nonsensical that really is. A mod of a game that's supposed to be a game based on a mod of a game. Lol...

 

If PR was so great then why haven't hasn't the existing PR community created an identical PR2 clone using UE4, Unity or Cryengine over the last 4 years Squad has been in development is the question all you nostalgia fans should be asking yourself...

 

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2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

"PR Mod for Squad"

 

That's hilarious sounding. Think about how nonsensical that really is. A mod of a game that's supposed to be a game based on a mod of a game. Lol..

1 That makes sense. There´s some objective matter to it. Does this game have the same mechanics or generates the same gameplay as PR? NO. So a PR mod makes perfect sense.

 

2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

If PR was so great then why haven't hasn't the existing PR community created an identical PR2 clone using UE4, Unity or Cryengine over the last 4 years Squad has been in development is the question all you nostalgia fans should be asking yourself...

 

2 You use the past to talk about PR. Maybe you are not aware but the game is "alive" and with a faithful and thankful community. I still play it from time to time. So there´s no nostalgia involved. Some of us just want the same game with better graphics and sound :P

 

3 Maybe because there´s no game out there that is moddable enough to reproduce that? You´re probably not aware of the attemp a very well intended and capable community had at modding ARMA 2 and then ARMA 3. 

And then SQUAD came out, and we all thought that it was "PR´s spiritual successor"

 

In the end...

These are all things that you would understand if you had played PR. But you obviously haven´t and it´s a shame because it´s a great game.

 

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5 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

"PR Mod for Squad"

 

That's hilarious sounding. Think about how nonsensical that really is. A mod of a game that's supposed to be a game based on a mod of a game. Lol...

 

If PR was so great then why haven't hasn't the existing PR community created an identical PR2 clone using UE4, Unity or Cryengine over the last 4 years Squad has been in development is the question all you nostalgia fans should be asking yourself...

 

You seem to have an axe to grind against the game. Which is funny, because without PR you would have no Squad. As for an actual reply, i would post one but  Nightingale87 already covered me so there's no need to repeat the same things.  Like he said, some of us just want the same game with better graphics and sound. Actually, some of us thought and still think that's what we'll get in the end. You know, just like it was advertised from the beginning.

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10 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Squad has moments of absolute brilliance on so many levels but it's absolutely crippled wearing this rotting 100 lbs. PR albatross around it's neck for eternity.

I assume that you might have seen this before, but in case you haven't, hopefully this will help you at least empathize with the PR players who came over to squad with certain expectations and then feel a little butthurt when they see / feel things going in a different direction. Specifically referring to the "why not PR2?" section. 

 

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131654

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Burningbeard80 said:

You seem to have an axe to grind against the game. Which is funny, because without PR you would have no Squad. As for an actual reply, i would post one but  Nightingale87 already covered me so there's no need to repeat the same things.  Like he said, some of us just want the same game with better graphics and sound. Actually, some of us thought and still think that's what we'll get in the end. You know, just like it was advertised from the beginning.

"Axe to grind"...? Not at all. I've got no dog in the fight. I own two boxed copies of BF2 and put several hundred hours into it when it was brand new but just like Joint Operations it quickly became graphically obsolete.

 

Whilst I appreciate your guys passion for Project Reality my point is that after the divergence of the personnel that went on to create Squad its too bad the remaining PR staff didn't share your same enthusiasm and re-create an exact clone of Project Reality using the readily available game engines. I mean you have admire the artistic talent and creativity of the OWI staff which had had the drive and determination to create Squad meanwhile for the last four years the PR crew has seemingly sat around twiddling their thumbs and clinging to the past.

 

I've always said that in hindsight dropping the term "spiritual successor" moniker was probably one of the biggest mistakes of the entire process because it seems to have led all of you guys to think you were going to get an exact replica of PR.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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7 minutes ago, Psyrus said:

I assume that you might have seen this before, but in case you haven't, hopefully this will help you at least empathize with the PR players who came over to squad with certain expectations and then feel a little butthurt when they see / feel things going in a different direction. Specifically referring to the "why not PR2?" section. 

 

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131654

Cool. But I'll ask you the same question though. What have the existing PR staff been doing for the last four years in response to Squad? Nothing as far as I can see...

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25 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Cool. But I'll ask you the same question though. What have the existing PR staff been doing for the last four years in response to Squad? Nothing as far as I can see...

Just slowly purring away and creating new pr releases. It's slowed down not only because a good chunk of devs moved over to squad, but because as time took its toll on the player count and the community shrunk it has led to a smaller pool of R-CONS to promote to devs. 

 

For some history, there were at least three separate attempts to create a PR2 equivalent over the years under the same premise as PR (non commercial or at least the dev team was unpaid) and they failed.

- ARMA2

- CryEngine

- one more that I forget the details about 

 

Maybe you can call it failure fatigue, but the devs that remain on the  PR team don't have the interest in making something from scratch on a new engine, since virtually all the assets are from a different Era and couldn't just be plopped into a new engine. 

 

I personally think having a PR mod for squad makes perfect sense because the heavy lifting has been done by the OWI devs. That way the people who want a pretty version of PR can do their thing with the other 300-500 people who want it, and the OWI devs can keep taking their game in whatever direction they want 

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3 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

 What have the existing PR staff been doing for the last four years in response to Squad? Nothing as far as I can see...

If you mean recreating the game on a new engine you would be correct. If you mean they didn't create any content whatsoever in that time span, you would be wrong (e.g., massive 8x8 kilometer Falklands map...taking a look at some map listing sites, there are still new maps coming out).

 

I was playing PR up until last October when i got a new PC that could run Squad. I would still be playing it if i hadn't lost my login details during the PC change (it's actually still installed on my hard drive).

 

3 hours ago, Psyrus said:

I personally think having a PR mod for squad makes perfect sense because the heavy lifting has been done by the OWI devs. That way the people who want a pretty version of PR can do their thing with the other 300-500 people who want it, and the OWI devs can keep taking their game in whatever direction they want 

That's exactly my point, it makes perfect sense from every way you look at it. OWI can create new assets (vehicles, factions, maps, etc) and have easy mechanics to appeal to a bigger audience if they want to, so that the money keeps coming in and they keep producing. Meanwhile, we can still get a game closer to what we expected with mods.

 

I don't mind playing with the same regulars day in and day out. It's actually a much more coherent experience and results in a higher skill level in the player pool, meaning better matches. I remember playing a round of insurgency in the same squad as a clan with players who had been playing since 2006. It was something straight out of a movie and we didn't get any casualties at all for like an hour, despite pushing actively (and that's with a 2-minute timer after a revive, where getting shot again resulted in a "hard death" and a respawn). I don't even care if it will be 5 servers with a 20 minute queue to get in, i'd play it all the time over the vanilla version with the current mechanics.

 

I fail to see how being able to have our cake and eat it too is such a bad thing. Unless i don't know, people are afraid the player base will be fragmented or something. Well, i can't help with that. It doesn't make sense to stick with something i enjoy, if the same thing is done in a manner that i enjoy even more.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Burningbeard80 said:

I fail to see how being able to have our cake and eat it too is such a bad thing. Unless i don't know, people are afraid the player base will be fragmented or something. Well, i can't help with that. It doesn't make sense to stick with something i enjoy, if the same thing is done in a manner that i enjoy even more.

I don't think we can even talk about fragmentation at this point, most of the people who wanted to see Squad truly succeed PR already aren't a part of the active player base. If anything, this mod would have a chance to bring tons of players back instead of turning the ones that are here away.

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1 hour ago, Burningbeard80 said:

If you mean recreating the game on a new engine you would be correct. If you mean they didn't create any content whatsoever in that time span, you would be wrong (e.g., massive 8x8 kilometer Falklands map...taking a look at some map listing sites, there are still new maps coming out).

 

I'm not trying to diminish your PR dream. You just have to actually face "reality" though so to speak. Its simply based on a completely obsolete game from 14 years ago. Just like Joint Operations its almost completely dead and only on life support because a few veteran like yourself still enjoy it. Plus its a niche mod which makes it even more obscure and unknown. There's around 100 people playing on =HOG= right now which is cool though. Despite that I don't think that a PR mod of Squad would never ever come close to replicating the game because a bunch of elements are actually missing and virtually impossible to implement. Plus if you could make some clunky mod that did somewhat replicate it how many people are going to actually play it? Over the last four years many folks already spent thousands of hours making mods for Squad 4.16 and hardly anyone ever played even those and they just sat on the shelf gathering dust so take a guess how many people are going to play a half baked PR mod of Squad? I'm guessing you'd be lucky to even fill a single server.

 

Not only that Squad itself is such a niche game that has a major player retention problem the community fragmentation factor of something like this could also have ramifications as well considering daily peaks are under 3000 with around 300 empty servers. Think about it for a minute, Squad only retains this tiny core community because it has a few unique features that differentiate it from anything else in the genre. All its going to take is some big studio to come along and steal the same basic idea, package it up with some flashy eye candy and just like all the other previous titles poof most everyone will jump ship and then they'll be a another tiny niche community lamenting the loss of Squad and wanting to mod that game to be like Squad. Be careful what you wish for is what I'm saying.

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we need Project Reality style mod in squad!

... and more. 

60 seconds respawn!

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I'm not trying to diminish your PR dream. 

Well, I think you are Lol. Feels like you´re just argumenting because of some personal reason. Otherwise, I see no point in doing it. 

 

1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

 You just have to actually face "reality" though so to speak. Its simply based on a completely obsolete game from 14 years ago. Just like Joint Operations its almost completely dead and only on life support because a few veteran like yourself still enjoy it. Plus its a niche mod which makes it even more obscure and unknown. There's around 100 people playing on =HOG= right now which is cool though. 

Sounds like you´re scared of having such a mod. Why? What scares you about people being happy and having their "niche".

 

1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

 Despite that I don't think that a PR mod of Squad would never ever come close to replicating the game because a bunch of elements are actually missing and virtually impossible to implement.?

Like which ones?

 

1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Over the last four years many folks already spent thousands of hours making mods for Squad 4.16 and hardly anyone ever played even those and they just sat on the shelf gathering dust 

Nobody downloads a mod for Squad because it´s not finished and a single update can render all your mods obsolete and modders have to edit and players have to download again and reínstall. 

On another point….haven´t you heard SQUAD OPS??????? That´s a mod by the way that you need to play a modded version of SQUAD. ONE LIFE EVENTS! That´s hardcore. That´s more realistic. That´s great! And the waiting list to join events (even to do the basic training) are very LONG!...

(Also PR is kinda it´s predecesor too)

1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Not only that Squad itself is such a niche game that has a major player retention problem --- Squad only retains this tiny core community because it has a few unique features that differentiate it from anything else in the genre. 

Probably the first migration SQUAD suffered (might still be suffering ) is because they moved AWAY from the PR claimed similarity. 

 

1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

All its going to take is some big studio to come along and steal the same basic idea, package it up with some flashy eye candy and just like all the other previous titles poof most everyone will jump ship and then they'll be a another tiny niche community lamenting the loss of Squad and wanting to mod that game to be like Squad. Be careful what you wish for is what I'm saying.

I don´t get how the implementation of a mod will cause of that.

 

IF anything, having different mods will appeal to a larger audience. You choose to pick an apocalytic consequence as a result of the implementation of a new game mode/mod. Why???

 

Take a look at Warthunder. I exclusively play simulator battles. There´s a large amount of people who do that. And just like me, would stay away from the game if the SIMULATOR mode wasn´t there!. It hasn´t fragmented anything!!!

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