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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Font said:

 Just a few days ago I refunded HLL because if you get suppressed there, you have no chance to react, because the screen gets so blurry that you can't see what is directly in front of you.

1

In other words, your skill wasn't high enough to deal with it. When suppression is only visual and won't affect your aim at all you still can shot back and kill your opponent.  Back in the PR days after a certain amount of playtime, some players got used the visual effect and ignored the suppression to some degree. Reliable muscle memory was all you needed.

 

For example

suppresion.png

Edited by Phoenixstorm

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On 6/13/2019 at 9:06 PM, MultiSquid said:

It shows a lot about the community we now have, that most of the people talking about suppression (or anything, really) think of a 1v1 scenario and that's about the extent of their imagination.

 

I love that you guys are actively trading in the open marketplace of ideas, but I haven't seen the word "teamwork" here once. Maybe, just maybe that is something that should be taken into consideration. People helping one another overcome adversity, you know, that sort of thing. I'm sure teamwork had something to with Squad once, perhaps we could bring it back again to the forefront of our minds when we think about this game.

I play squad as a competitive game, I am a part of a competitive team, I participate in competitive matches on a weekly basis. I played squad with and against the best teams out there (and also some of the worst). While hitting your shots is very important, much more important than missing... sorry I meant to say suppressing your targets. However tactics matter more in a competitive game, much more than in a pub game, I think I can safely say that I experienced more teamplay in Squad than some of the commenters here ever will. 

 

@Phoenixstorm HLL has the blur on top of increased sway and aimpunch, yes I didn't had the skill to see in that game, doesn't matter, I got my money back, maybe I will spend it to learn to read Braile, probably will enjoy it more too.

 

In pub games MGs are more common than in comp games, fortunately headshotting an MG is easy, especially if you are not suppressed. But as I said, before, MGs and Marksmen are very situational kits, so they aren't that common in higher level games, because you can choose a different kit which has usefuly utility and still can do 95% of what an MG or a Marksman can do. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Font said:

I play squad as a competitive game, I am a part of a competitive team, I participate in competitive matches on a weekly basis. I played squad with and against the best teams out there (and also some of the worst). While hitting your shots is very important, much more important than missing... sorry I meant to say suppressing your targets. However tactics matter more in a competitive game, much more than in a pub game, I think I can safely say that I experienced more teamplay in Squad than some of the commenters here ever will. 

 

1

Competitive games are always rush to the middle & their blackcaps if you aren't playing RAAS. Most tactics are very simple and FOB building is mostly limited to HAB/ammo/radio secure & heave emplacements. And the worst thing in competitive is the speed of the actual gameplay and the fact that you can compensate a bad tactic/positioning with good aim.

 

 

Edited by Phoenixstorm

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1 hour ago, Phoenixstorm said:

Competitive games are always rush to the middle & their blackcaps if you aren't playing RAAS. Most tactics are very simple and FOB building is mostly limited to HAB/ammo/radio secure & heave emplacements. And the worst thing in competitive is the speed of the actual gameplay and the fact that you can compensate a bad tactic/positioning with good aim.

 

 

You can only compensate bad positioning with good aim, if you are playing against a bad team, a better team will onetap you, giving you no chance to react. So if you play against a team that has good players, positioning is even more important. I'd say you can compensate bad positioning with good aim in pub games more. Competitive games are faster, because everyone has a job, and everyone does their job, and you don't have to waste time with useless crap like asking a rando to take the medic instead of a marksman etc, or do a logi run. Its like a well oiled machine, faster because of the more competent players, game and it's mechanics are still the same. 

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On ‎13‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 1:54 PM, Font said:

I can flip this around and say that a guy who sticks his head out when he shouldn't, then he should be punished with a headshot. If you have superior positioning and firepower with an MG, and a rifleman peeks and kills the MG who had the advantage to begin with, then that kill is more than deserved in my book especially if the MG tried to kill the enemy but missed. I approach Squad as a competitive PVP game. For me if a PVP game is not skill based then I don't really see much point in playing it. Just a few days ago I refunded HLL because if you get suppressed there, you have no chance to react, because the screen gets so blurry that you can't see what is directly in front of you. If someone shoots at me, misses but at the same time he prevents me to shoot back, then I really have no interest in playing such a game. 

I think you don´t read more tan one para. So I reduce it.

On ‎13‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 10:20 PM, Nightingale87 said:

 

 

I´m sorry but your point is something like this.

 

I like this football/soccer game. But it would be much better if it had baskets instead of goals, and it was played on a court instead of a field. Oh!, and it would be better if we could use out hands instead of kick the ball around. 

I don´t play to scores 3 or 4 goals every match, I want to score 100+. 

 

You´re talking about a completely different game. Pêople have pointed out, several times, that suppression is there to recreate something that happens in real life, so players react more like it. Creating a completetly different gamplay from COD/BF. If you don´t like that gameplay, you´re entitled to your opinions and taste.

SUPRESSION IS NOT THERE TO COMPENSATE FOR LACK OF AIM (nor does it)

 

But you either don´t acknowledge that a taste for such gameplay exists, or are argumenting against the very existance of such an interest.

 Which are both quite odd in an adult gamer.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Font said:

I play squad as a competitive game, I am a part of a competitive team, I participate in competitive matches on a weekly basis. I played squad with and against the best teams out there (and also some of the worst). While hitting your shots is very important, much more important than missing... sorry I meant to say suppressing your targets. However tactics matter more in a competitive game, much more than in a pub game, I think I can safely say that I experienced more teamplay in Squad than some of the commenters here ever will.

It incites a lot of doubts about your claim that you are this authority on teamplay when it doesn't even seem to register with you that the suppression is obviously a perfect way to encourage players to work with their teammates and simply ask for help when someone's got a bead on them. You seem to be exactly the type of a player whom I had in mind when I mentioned the "community we now have" and the "1v1mindset" earlier, perhaps feeling that I was talking about you was what made you reply to that particular post.

 

On 13/06/2019 at 1:54 PM, Font said:

For me if a PVP game is not skill based then I don't really see much point in playing it. Just a few days ago I refunded HLL because if you get suppressed there, you have no chance to react, because the screen gets so blurry that you can't see what is directly in front of you. If someone shoots at me, misses but at the same time he prevents me to shoot back, then I really have no interest in playing such a game. 

Case in point from this very same thread, you seem to expect that you should be able to handle every possible situation on your own, purely because personal skill of an individual should prevail. That is clearly an antithesis of a what the words "team player" stand for. When you got suppressed in HLL as you described, you absolutely had a chance to react, but the only possible reaction that occured to you is to shoot back, and finding that the game didn't allow you to do that well, overreact. What about taking cover and requesting aid from a nearest teammate? Did that even occur to you before going for the "uninstall" button?

 

Please, someone convince me that Squad doesn't have a huge problem with player mentality.

Edited by MultiSquid

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8 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

Please, someone convince me that Squad doesn't have a huge problem with player mentality.

New Squad meta = more counter-strike players and make Squad like CS.

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2 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

Case in point from this very same thread, you seem to expect that you should be able to handle every possible situation on your own, purely because personal skill of an individual should prevail. That is clearly an antithesis of a what the words "team player" stand for. When you got suppressed in HLL as you described, you absolutely had a chance to react, but the only possible reaction that occured to you is to shoot back, and finding that the game didn't allow you to do that well, overreact. What about taking cover and requesting aid from a nearest teammate? Did that even occur to you before going for the "uninstall" button?

 

Please, someone convince me that Squad doesn't have a huge problem with player mentality.

+1

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3 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

Case in point from this very same thread, you seem to expect that you should be able to handle every possible situation on your own, purely because personal skill of an individual should prevail. That is clearly an antithesis of a what the words "team player" stand for. When you got suppressed in HLL as you described, you absolutely had a chance to react, but the only possible reaction that occured to you is to shoot back, and finding that the game didn't allow you to do that well, overreact. What about taking cover and requesting aid from a nearest teammate? Did that even occur to you before going for the "uninstall" button?

 

Please, someone convince me that Squad doesn't have a huge problem with player mentality.

5

+2

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On 15-6-2019 at 5:51 PM, MultiSquid said:

It incites a lot of doubts about your claim that you are this authority on teamplay when it doesn't even seem to register with you that the suppression is obviously a perfect way to encourage players to work with their teammates and simply ask for help when someone's got a bead on them. You seem to be exactly the type of a player whom I had in mind when I mentioned the "community we now have" and the "1v1mindset" earlier, perhaps feeling that I was talking about you was what made you reply to that particular post.

 

Case in point from this very same thread, you seem to expect that you should be able to handle every possible situation on your own, purely because personal skill of an individual should prevail. That is clearly an antithesis of a what the words "team player" stand for. When you got suppressed in HLL as you described, you absolutely had a chance to react, but the only possible reaction that occured to you is to shoot back, and finding that the game didn't allow you to do that well, overreact. What about taking cover and requesting aid from a nearest teammate? Did that even occur to you before going for the "uninstall" button?

 

Please, someone convince me that Squad doesn't have a huge problem with player mentality.

+3

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Posted (edited)

Suppression is one of the key factor feature of the game. I dont want this game to turn into Rainbow Six Siege Competitive style none sense.

Edited by Garensterz

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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2019 at 12:50 PM, Font said:

I play squad as a competitive game, I am a part of a competitive team, I participate in competitive matches on a weekly basis. I played squad with and against the best teams out there (and also some of the worst). While hitting your shots is very important, much more important than missing... sorry I meant to say suppressing your targets. However tactics matter more in a competitive game, much more than in a pub game, I think I can safely say that I experienced more teamplay in Squad than some of the commenters here ever will. 

I would say that with that comment you lost alot of credibility. SInce you dont acknowledge how suppression works for your squad when applying teamwork, and then belittle most commenters here with your 750 hours in Squad.

 

Some of the best Squad Leaders I play with on Tactical Gamer have between 1000-2800 hours in this game, and they know how to use suppression to their advantage and how to break it when under it.

That you dont like the current gameplay of Squad is fine, but telling everyone that your skills are more important.....

You say you dont want to play unless skills are a major factor in the game, point is they are. Just not the skills you claim to have. Communication skills, Leadership skills, Tactical and strategic awareness and so much more vital skills are required to  be good at Squad yet you dismiss them all for your twitch and shoot skills. Squad is so much more.

Edited by Jevski

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Posted (edited)

I just want to add, Regarding Font's issue on HLL. There are such things as bad suppression feature and one of them is Hell Let Loose. For me using extensive blurriness and B&W effect is a terrible way of representing suppression in games. Suppression should only force players to twitch and duck for cover as what it should do in real life.

 

The problem with HLL's suppression is, the effect is to extensive its obstructing the player's vision. Squad's suppression effect is quite okay, it does the job done, for me at least. But I'm more impressed with Post Scriptum's Suppression effect, where your aim gets twitchy unlike the sway effect in squad. I think suppression twitch is more of a realistic approach than sway.

Edited by Garensterz

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12 hours ago, Garensterz said:

I just want to add, Regarding Font's issue on HLL. There are such things as bad suppression feature and one of them is Hell Let Loose. For me using extensive blurriness and B&W effect is a terrible way of representing suppression in games. Suppression should only force players to twitch and duck for cover as what it should do in real life.

 

The problem with HLL's suppression is, the effect is to extensive its obstructing the player's vision. Squad's suppression effect is quite okay, it does the job done, for me at least. But I'm more impressed with Post Scriptum's Suppression effect, where your aim gets twitchy unlike the sway effect in squad. I think suppression twitch is more of a realistic approach than sway.

Really? I feel like HLL has the best suppression right now. It is super effective and really hinders the player in its actions,  making MGs actually useful to use.

 

Tactics like advancing under cover fire are actually doable, not like in Squad or PS, where those kits are on the borderline to meme kits. Where you can ignore the suppression effect most of the time and rejoice hearing a MG cause you know you are gonna make a easy kill in the next minute.

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23 hours ago, Axel said:

Really? I feel like HLL has the best suppression right now. It is super effective and really hinders the player in its actions,  making MGs actually useful to use.

 

Tactics like advancing under cover fire are actually doable, not like in Squad or PS, where those kits are on the borderline to meme kits. Where you can ignore the suppression effect most of the time and rejoice hearing a MG cause you know you are gonna make a easy kill in the next minute.

It's effective, because it's over excessive. If you have an MG or SMG, you are basically gifted free kills, because you just have to spray at a group of people, push them, continue spraying and then walk right on top of them and kill them with almost 0 resistance -- Because they're lying down prone trying to wait for the 15 seconds it takes for B&W and screen blur to go away after the bullets stop flying.  Basically a lone player with any automatic weapon kit is a solo killing machine.

It works in some aspects, but also goes against what it's wanting to achieve. Buffs group play, but buffs solo lone wolves too, and just frustrates those on the receiving end, because they're rendered useless.

 

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Posted (edited)

@Axel, wait a minute. I think I'm talking about a different WW2 game that was just recently released. The game uses very intensive suppression effect that its too straining to the eye. They were using blur and black/white effect.

 

But I've seen some videos of HLL's suppression, I think its okay. But not a fan of Black and White effect.

 

Theres too many WW2 games these days, looks like I've combined those two.

 

Regarding the MG. I think the reason why the MG class is so easy to snipe is not because of the lack of suppression effect, but rather the lacking of quick cover mechanics or blind firing mechanic when mounted on MG's. I always wanted the MG to have a cover mechanic when they're are snapped on an object. Like there's a button that can quickly make an animation to pull down their heads below the cover while mounted. 

 

I'm quite annoyed that as an MG you have to un mount and use prone to have full cover. There's too much time wasted with those animations and will surely get sniped to easily. A more realistic way is the MG should have a feature to snap for cover so its more effective to suppress targets with short bursts. This should also be effective with mounted MG's on MRAP's.

Edited by Garensterz

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@Dubs.

 

I agree Dubs, the HLL suppression seems exaggerated. But if I have to choose between an almost non existing one, witch in addition off the laser weapons we have in squad, rendering all MGs almost useless. And one, that actually do what it is supposed to do, making roles as MGs useful and promoting a certain game style.

 

I choose HLL.

 

But the real question is, is suppression in SQ doing what it should? I believe not.

What are the consequences? It make roles like ARs and MMGs almost ineffective and certainly promotes a certain gameplay.

 

We will see if changes are made in the futures, I am sure suppression is not on the top priority list of the Devs.

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i quite like suppression in current form A14.

Minor fear linked to a small amount of lost of ability.

 

A big gun suppressing a hab is a very effective way of getting infantry forward to overrun it. Proven working.

If I suppress a building which I know has enemies in it I am confident that my teammates are able to approach it in relative safety. Suitably effective without being overpowered.

 

 

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Suppression feels ok to me too. Suppression works for lmgs and higher, or multiple rifles on same target. Not excessive for close range, effective enough to prevent spotting and immediate return fire on middle ranges.

There are sad parts to it, being suppressed through the several meters of buildings when not even fired at you or knowing that it's enemy shooting at your position when not being suppressed, sad meta advantage.

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Suppression does not lower the skill ceiling, it's just another mechanic to master. I was worried they were going to make it too powerful but so far it seems about right. Would like to see the sway made more jerky, but that's largely an aesthetic preference. Gameplay-wise it's not so powerful to encourage abuse, but powerful enough to support its use as a covering mechanic. Can't tell you how many times I've used it to support an advance on enemies behind cover. Some folks seem to want it to make you invincible to all in your FOV, but I like that it requires you to place your shots and focus on known enemy positions. If playing MG, you can stay alive by suppressing individuals or clumps of enemies while staying behind cover from other angles. 

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Posted (edited)

The system is BROKEN. REMOVE IT.

Actual Scenario; Lining up three enemy running up a driveway on Scorpo.

 

I take out the SL running in front, proceed to shoot at the next target immediately, but because the dip shit with the m249 knows he can exploit the suppression system, he instantly starts hip firing at my general location the moment his SL goes down, crouched while side stepping behind a hedgerow, still managing to suppress me.

 

Causing my character to do the inhuman SHAKE & WOBBLE. My next shots miss and I die because his buddy side steps out while the m249 is still shooting like an absolute ****ing maniac and kills me, because I am still wobbling all over the ****ing place.

What I don't understand is, if my character hasn't moved, I am still holding shift, doesn't that ****ing indicate that I am prepared to take the next shot without hesitation, without a twitch, because clearly this ****ing retard with the m249 isn't going to hit me unless he toggles and aim bot.

 

The biggest problem with the suppression system, it turns on the moment the enemy player clicks his mouse, not the moment his projectile lands near you.

Players should have an initial head shake because we all know it's that initial opening that causing people to jump.

IF I AM HIDING BEHIND A BUSH AND JUMP OUT AND SCARED YOU, I CAN'T JUMP BACK IN THE BUSH AND JUMP BACK OUT AND SCARE YOU AGAIN CAN I????

LMG o.p and the marksman now useless with his squad.

The marksman can't really be in the front taking hit's getting revived by non medics and actually going back to doing his job, the best you can do when you run out of stamina is go CQB and just hip fire, switching to pistol. I find the marksman are lonewolfing more and straying from what was originally intended because of the suppression system mostly. How do you expect a marksman, to take shots if every single bullet landing near and around him is causing him to wobble his arms. May aswell start adding bigger sniper rifles and bigger scopes to the game.

It's unrealistic imo and it needs to be thought over properly. Especially the fact that you can just spray sporadically in the general direction of the enemy with a m249 and  the moment you click your mouse the suppression kicks in.

 

Edited by <invalid>

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Sounds like a good teamwork from their side.
Im not saying that the suppression system is the most perfect one, but its not that bad. Suppressive fire is a vital part of military tactics and a game like squad should have it. There is almost no human being that would not react when a M249 opened up on them. Its hard to replicate the sense of fear and stress in a game but the suppression system does a decent job. It could of course be modified to be even better but its far from bad.


From your story it feels like the main issue was that you where too exposed and easy to spot. You got suppressed and killed shortly after the first shot so they apparently located you immediately and reacted accordingly. But nothing stopped you from suppressing them either. Even if the M249 is suppressing you you could have fired towards them and denied them a chance to take an accurate shot at you.

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1 hour ago, Pluto is a planet said:

Sounds like a good teamwork from their side.
Im not saying that the suppression system is the most perfect one, but its not that bad. Suppressive fire is a vital part of military tactics and a game like squad should have it. There is almost no human being that would not react when a M249 opened up on them. Its hard to replicate the sense of fear and stress in a game but the suppression system does a decent job. It could of course be modified to be even better but its far from bad.


From your story it feels like the main issue was that you where too exposed and easy to spot. You got suppressed and killed shortly after the first shot so they apparently located you immediately and reacted accordingly. But nothing stopped you from suppressing them either. Even if the M249 is suppressing you you could have fired towards them and denied them a chance to take an accurate shot at you.
 

Pluto is right

 

1 hour ago, <invalid> said:

I take out the SL running in front, proceed to shoot at the next target immediately, but because the dip shit with the m249 knows he can exploit the suppression system, he instantly starts hip firing at my general location the moment his SL goes down, crouched while side stepping behind a hedgerow, still managing to suppress me.

 

Causing my character to do the inhuman SHAKE & WOBBLE. My next shots miss and I die because his buddy side steps out while the m249 is still shooting like an absolute ****ing maniac and kills me, because I am still wobbling all over the ****ing place.

What I don't understand is, if my character hasn't moved, I am still holding shift, doesn't that ****ing indicate that I am prepared to take the next shot without hesitation, without a twitch, because clearly this ****ing retard with the m249 isn't going to hit me unless he toggles and aim bot.


It's unrealistic imo and it needs to be thought over properly. Especially the fact that you can just spray sporadically in the general direction of the enemy with a m249 and  the moment you click your mouse the suppression kicks in.

 

Read your narration again and think what you´d do IRL. With all it´s flaws SQUAD suppression system tries to ressemble reality, not another FPS game.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, said:

The system is BROKEN. REMOVE IT.

Actual Scenario; Lining up three enemy running up a driveway on Scorpo... 

Where were your teammates? 

Why did you expect to engage 1v3 and come out on top?

What kind of a realistic suppression do you think would work in a game where players don't care if they die, because they're back in action in one minute anyway?

 

You seem to misunderstand the term "suppression", it's not the initial shock of somebody shooting at you. Being suppressed means you are taking so much fire that you don't want to shoot back for fear of getting hit immediately  as you peek from cover. That leads us back to my third question, how do you make people not want to shoot back when nobody is afraid of getting hit? 

Edited by MultiSquid

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Posted (edited)
On 7/26/2019 at 12:06 AM, MultiSquid said:

Where were your teammates? 

Why did you expect to engage 1v3 and come out on top?

What kind of a realistic suppression do you think would work in a game where players don't care if they die, because they're back in action in one minute anyway?

 

You seem to misunderstand the term "suppression", it's not the initial shock of somebody shooting at you. Being suppressed means you are taking so much fire that you don't want to shoot back for fear of getting hit immediately  as you peek from cover. That leads us back to my third question, how do you make people not want to shoot back when nobody is afraid of getting hit? 

On 7/25/2019 at 10:30 PM, Nightingale87 said:

Pluto is right

 

Read your narration again and think what you´d do IRL. With all it´s flaws SQUAD suppression system tries to ressemble reality, not another FPS game.

On 7/25/2019 at 9:28 PM, Pluto is a planet said:

Sounds like a good teamwork from their side.
Im not saying that the suppression system is the most perfect one, but its not that bad. Suppressive fire is a vital part of military tactics and a game like squad should have it. There is almost no human being that would not react when a M249 opened up on them. Its hard to replicate the sense of fear and stress in a game but the suppression system does a decent job. It could of course be modified to be even better but its far from bad.


From your story it feels like the main issue was that you where too exposed and easy to spot. You got suppressed and killed shortly after the first shot so they apparently located you immediately and reacted accordingly. But nothing stopped you from suppressing them either. Even if the M249 is suppressing you you could have fired towards them and denied them a chance to take an accurate shot at you.
 

 

I will quote myself Pluto as I fired first and fired again.

 

" My next shots miss "
" proceed to shoot at the next target immediately "

Please don't twist my story... I will explain again.

 

I did fire back, but I have a 10 round mag, the enemy has a 200rnd box... I was ADS, he was crouched, side stepping, hip firing hitting the house on my left with a few rounds landing close, triggering the suppression system, which I am just trying to address it's flaws.


I exploit the game with the suppression system as so do some of the other guys I play with, you get shot at, you turn around and just start shooting, basically shooting before you spot the enemy then adjusting your aim once you have basically ****ed his aim, evening the playing field. I do it to players all the time.


Suppression in real life works when you fire short bursts at the target location preventing them from peeking or moving like MultiSquid said, but in short accurate bursts.

 

The suppression in squad is that it turns on the moment the player clicks his mouse, so you character is reacting pretty much before the round is landing next to you.


It needs to be marginalized to a closer distance to the players, and delayed or something.

Sway should be replaced with a INITIAL character movement SHAKE with a CONSTANT camera SHAKE, so the first initial contact is very intense but a bit less intense from the front if you are ADS holding breath.


The character movement shake should only be initial but the camera shake remaining for the duration of the suppression. BUT can be cancelled out by holding breath.

 

Because the time it takes to hold breath should be more than enough time for the player who is "suppressing" to correct his aim and actually hit their target.


The fear and stress factor should be depending on how much stamina the player has, which determines whether or not they are capable of returning fire in that moment.

Edited by <invalid>
Needed to space a paragraph before my O.C.D caused a panic attack lmao

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