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Imho, squad was better without it. At the very least you should get suppressed by "friendly" bullets, too.

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being suppressed by friendly bullets would make friendlies stay away from each other because of the negative effect of firing next to a teammate. It was explained on some thread some time ago.

 

Btw. In my opinion suppression is fine...if anything I´d add more.

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Suppression is an awesome feature and give you the ability to use machine guns in their intended role. Having MG:s suppressing the enemy while the rest of the squad is advancing is very effective.

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It gives machine guns their intended purpose; to keep the enemy's heads down.

 

I don't know why in the world you would want to remove this feature other than the fact that in annoys you.

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I agree, Squad was better without it. I personally play Squad for winning not because I wanna feel like a soldier in my comfy chair, and I can't help it but I see the negative effects of the suppression as rewarding a noob for missing their shots. If I see an enemy I shoot with the intention to kill the enemy, not to miss intentionally and suppress him. Fortunately with V14 there is even less reason to get an MG kit. SL, 2 Medics, 1 Combat engineer, at least 1 LAT, 1 grenadier and the rest are rifleman with ammo crates. There is really no need to have an MG in a competent squad. 

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Posted (edited)

Suppression is not rewarding a guy for missing shots, it's punishing the other guy for sticking his head out when he shouldn't.

 

Your description sounds like someone who approaches Squad as a regular shooter. Nothing wrong with having an opinion of course, it's just that this is not what the game intends to be. It's been marketed from the get go as a tactical shooter where emulating real world tactics should give you an advantage over someone who does not and well, suppression is a huge part of infantry tactics.

 

Actually let me correct that, it is half of the primary tactic in every infantry branch across the world. Even in countries with conscript armies where you serve a few months and have limited training compared to a 100% professional army, they might not teach you all the advanced stuff they teach to the professionals and officers, but they always teach you fire and maneuver. You might end up becoming a driver or even a cook for the duration of your service, but everyone has done a suppression and flanking exercise during training.

 

I was in the local air force with AA gunner and base security duties for a year, where we're basically supposed to hold airfields. In the event of a defensive war we'd most likely be shooting at air mobile troops coming to take over airfields (paratroopers and helicopter-borne assault troops) and not advance like regular infantry across any meaningful amount of ground. Guess what, less than 10 days into basic training, suppress and flank exercise. You just don't go anywhere without it. Unless you like taking much higher casualties for the same gains that is.

 

Fun little fact, certain weapons are engineered to slightly increase spray and decrease accuracy (eg, barrel mounts may not be as rigid/tight as a normal rifle to introduce a bit of sway as the gun fires), in order to suppress a bigger area. Case in point, the 30mm cannon on the Apache helicopter. It's meant for soft targets and troop concentrations anyway, so they decided to make it less like a laser and more like a shotgun. I wouldn't be surprised if some MGs also worked that way, since their main role is suppression and not killing everything by yourself. If the gun was good for everything, they'd just issue MGs to everyone. But apparently regular rifles are better for aimed shots and accurate fire, which leaves the MG with "keep your head down and your eyes looking somewhere else while we flank you" duties.

Edited by Burningbeard80

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Burningbeard80 said:

Suppression is not rewarding a guy for missing shots, it's punishing the other guy for sticking his head out when he shouldn't.

 

Your description sounds like someone who approaches Squad as a regular shooter. Nothing wrong with having an opinion of course, it's just that this is not what the game intends to be. It's been marketed from the get go as a tactical shooter where emulating real world tactics should give you an advantage over someone who does not and well, suppression is a huge part of infantry tactics.

 

I can flip this around and say that a guy who sticks his head out when he shouldn't, then he should be punished with a headshot. If you have superior positioning and firepower with an MG, and a rifleman peeks and kills the MG who had the advantage to begin with, then that kill is more than deserved in my book especially if the MG tried to kill the enemy but missed. I approach Squad as a competitive PVP game. For me if a PVP game is not skill based then I don't really see much point in playing it. Just a few days ago I refunded HLL because if you get suppressed there, you have no chance to react, because the screen gets so blurry that you can't see what is directly in front of you. If someone shoots at me, misses but at the same time he prevents me to shoot back, then I really have no interest in playing such a game. 

Edited by Font

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There is no fear in game, suppression is one of the mechanics to replicate it.

28 minutes ago, Font said:

If someone shoots at me, misses but at the same time he prevents me to shoot back, then I really have no interest in playing such a game. 

Well, we can remove suppression but x4 the recoil and sway. Then you will be unable to shhot back and MG with bipods will be a real MG.

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1 minute ago, Ruplay said:

There is no fear in game, suppression is one of the mechanics to replicate it.

Well, we can remove suppression but x4 the recoil and sway. Then you will be unable to shhot back and MG with bipods will be a real MG.

Yes, doesn't change the fact that it rewards the guy who shot first but missed. There is no fear in game. You are comparing an actual firefight or a war to a video game. War is fought out of necessity, game is played for fun. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Font said:

Yes, doesn't change the fact that it rewards the guy who shot first but missed.

Why not to do that? Rembolike playstyle when enemy miss and you jump into the air, make 180 degree turn and headshot with one bullet is what you want probably. Well there are a lot of games for this - CS, BF, COD. Squad is a game with a little more realism. If you didn't saw enemy first, that is your fault. If you miss (anybody misses), you will get bonus like any other.

Edited by Ruplay

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3 minutes ago, Ruplay said:

Why not to do that? Rembolike playstyle when enemy miss and you jump into the air, make 180 degree turn and headshot with one bullet is what you want probably. Well there are a lot of games for this - CS, BF, COD. Squad is a game with a little more realism.

Yes, and you can conveniently prevent that by not missing and shooting me into the head first, so I don't get the chance to do that.

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Just now, Font said:

Yes, and you can conveniently prevent that by not missing and shooting me into the head first, so I don't get the chance to do that.

Yes but if I miss you will be unable to jump into the air, make 180 degree turn and headshot with one bullet. Well actually, I have already saw such players. May be you are not skilled enough for that. Train hard and suppression will not be an issue for you.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Ruplay said:

Yes but if I miss you will be unable to jump into the air, make 180 degree turn and headshot with one bullet. Well actually, I have already saw such players. May be you are not skilled enough for that. Train hard and suppression will not be an issue for you.

And we are back at the fact that suppression rewards you for being a crappy shooter. How can you overcome suppression by training, when the game literally takes away the control you have over your character by increasing sway and adding the "aimpunch". It is literally out of your hands, you can't train to overcome that. If I have my back turned on you, you shoot me from the back but miss, and I 180 onetap you, then I don't have a problem with that. You had the advantage, you messed it up by missing, and the other guy still had a fair chance to fight back.

Edited by Font

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2 minutes ago, Font said:

suppression rewards you for being a crappy shooter.

Suppression rewards your skill to overcome suppression and shoot back.

 

3 minutes ago, Font said:

How can you overcome suppression by training, when the game literally takes away the control you have over your character by increasing sway and adding the "aimpunch". It is literally out of your hands, you can't train to overcome that.

Any proofs on that? I mean - increasing sway, recoil, etc.

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14 hours ago, Font said:

I agree, Squad was better without it. I personally play Squad for winning not because I wanna feel like a soldier in my comfy chair, and I can't help it but I see the negative effects of the suppression as rewarding a noob for missing their shots. If I see an enemy I shoot with the intention to kill the enemy, not to miss intentionally and suppress him. Fortunately with V14 there is even less reason to get an MG kit. SL, 2 Medics, 1 Combat engineer, at least 1 LAT, 1 grenadier and the rest are rifleman with ammo crates. There is really no need to have an MG in a competent squad. 

 

I highly disagree. A MG can suppress an entire squad just by keeping the bullets in the air. You dont even have to see the enemies. Advancing while having AR:s and MG:s covering you is very effective.

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The goal of suppression is to keep the enemy's head down and keep them from trying to Rambo through a hail of gunfire. It ties in to the idea of forcing players to value their life/ticket rather than the current run/gun/respawn meta. While this is a game, keep in mind it's also meant to mimic real life to a degree and as such suppresive fire is a valid tactic to keep the enemy's head down while other elements of your squad execute flanking maneuvers or bound from cover to cover to advance and eliminate enemy combatants.

You could always play COD...

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Suppression is good but I would like if they add an x2 multiplier if you get hit and enter the wounded state. Enough peoples dont give a f*** even if you hit them.

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4 hours ago, Phoenixstorm said:

Suppression is good but I would like if they add an x2 multiplier if you get hit and enter the wounded state. Enough peoples dont give a f*** even if you hit them.

true...

 

I also would like to see my screen "shake" when I get hit, so I cant fire back so easily

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45 minutes ago, EA_SUCKS said:

true...

 

I also would like to see my screen "shake" when I get hit, so I cant fire back so easily

true...

I also would like enemies to glow like in BF, sometimes it is hard to notice them in bushes.

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Posted (edited)

It shows a lot about the community we now have, that most of the people talking about suppression (or anything, really) think of a 1v1 scenario and that's about the extent of their imagination.

 

I love that you guys are actively trading in the open marketplace of ideas, but I haven't seen the word "teamwork" here once. Maybe, just maybe that is something that should be taken into consideration. People helping one another overcome adversity, you know, that sort of thing. I'm sure teamwork had something to with Squad once, perhaps we could bring it back again to the forefront of our minds when we think about this game.

Edited by MultiSquid

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8 hours ago, Font said:

I can flip this around and say that a guy who sticks his head out when he shouldn't, then he should be punished with a headshot. If you have superior positioning and firepower with an MG, and a rifleman peeks and kills the MG who had the advantage to begin with, then that kill is more than deserved in my book especially if the MG tried to kill the enemy but missed. I approach Squad as a competitive PVP game. For me if a PVP game is not skill based then I don't really see much point in playing it. Just a few days ago I refunded HLL because if you get suppressed there, you have no chance to react, because the screen gets so blurry that you can't see what is directly in front of you. If someone shoots at me, misses but at the same time he prevents me to shoot back, then I really have no interest in playing such a game. 

 

7 hours ago, Font said:

Yes, doesn't change the fact that it rewards the guy who shot first but missed. There is no fear in game. You are comparing an actual firefight or a war to a video game. War is fought out of necessity, game is played for fun. 

 

I´m sorry but your point is something like this.

 

I like this football/soccer game. But it would be much better if it had baskets instead of goals, and it was played on a court instead of a field. Oh!, and it would be better if we could use out hands instead of kick the ball around. 

I don´t play to scores 3 or 4 goals every match, I want to score 100+. 

 

You´re talking about a completely different game. Pêople have pointed out, several times, that suppression is there to recreate something that happens in real life, so players react more like it. Creating a completetly different gamplay from COD/BF. If you don´t like that gameplay, you´re entitled to your opinions and taste.

But you either don´t acknowledge that a taste for such gameplay exists, or are argumenting against the very existance of such an interest.

 

The skill in play is NOT ONLY the indiviual skill to overcome enemy in a firefight, but how your squad/mates respond to enemy fire. Maybe you´re suppressed, well, make the call, and whoever is unsupressed in your squad Will return fire. IF fire is directed propperly, you can avhieve a great volumen of fire. Eventually the enemy Will be suppressed, and they Will keep their heads down. And you can manouver around them for the kill. this is call achievment of initiative through fire superiority, and is a real life tactic.

 

Now, do I fell like a badass delta forcé when I do that with an organized SQUAD,...well maybe, in the ficticious immersion created by the game. Then, when I get shot I have a zip of my tea while I´m  waiting to respawn.

 

To be honest I cannot blame you for posting things like this. The direction Squad is taking recently allows for parameters of desired gameplay to be blurry.

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2 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

It shows a lot about the community we now have, that most of the people talking about suppression (or anything, really) think of a 1v1 scenario and that's about the extent of their imagination.

 

I love that you guys are actively trading in the open marketplace of ideas, but I haven't seen the word "teamwork" here once. Maybe, just maybe that is something that should be taken into consideration. People helping one another overcome adversity, you know, that sort of thing. I'm sure teamwork had something to with Squad once, perhaps we could bring it back again to the forefront of our minds when we think about this game.

I would love to see more Teamplay and suppression is one of the game mechanics where you need your teammates. 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Font said:

I can flip this around and say that a guy who sticks his head out when he shouldn't, then he should be punished with a headshot. If you have superior positioning and firepower with an MG, and a rifleman peeks and kills the MG who had the advantage to begin with, then that kill is more than deserved in my book especially if the MG tried to kill the enemy but missed. I approach Squad as a competitive PVP game. For me if a PVP game is not skill based then I don't really see much point in playing it. Just a few days ago I refunded HLL because if you get suppressed there, you have no chance to react, because the screen gets so blurry that you can't see what is directly in front of you. If someone shoots at me, misses but at the same time he prevents me to shoot back, then I really have no interest in playing such a game. 

Ok, you approach the game as a competitive pass time/hobby. Nothing wrong with that. But the game was not built as a 1 on 1 (or 1 vs everybody) measure of superior reflexes and motor skills. The game intends to be an experience where you are pretty much forced to work with others, by implementing mechanics that simulate real-life constraints on your in-game character.

 

Sure, suppression is an artificial mechanic, but there is no other way currently to simulate it yet. If we had a USB-to-needle adapter that injected us with adrenaline whenever shots were landing close to us in the game maybe we wouldn't need the shaky screen effects, because our real hands would be shaking by themselves and our mouse would be all over the place xD. I mean, i imagine that getting shot in real life gives you the jitters somewhat. But even if we leave involuntary/reflex movement aside, just having a higher heart rate and some trouble controlling your breathing can be enough to throw off your shots against long range targets. That doesn't mean you won't send rounds downrange, since the more you and your team shoots, the higher the possibility of actually hitting something, even if you don't see it. It's barrage fire basically.

It's also more or less the way things work in reality. The US did some research at some point and found out that in the majority of cases people where shooting at enemies they couldn't even see. So they started looking for rifle designs with a higher volume of fire and more rounds per magazine, and it was one of the reasons they started switching from 7.62mm to 5.56mm rounds.

 

If anything, the value of positioning and tactics over reflexes and the value of suppression are somewhat toned down in Squad when compared to other tactical shooters. It's actually quite easy to ignore and just keep spamming the fire button, especially in close quarters combat. For longer ranges, things happen slower so unless you're running through an open field against a prepared enemy (in which case you expect or even deserve to get taken out), you can just crawl back to cover, relocate a small distance, pop back up and start shooting again in a few seconds. Basically, Squad is a tactical shooter, so it has mechanics that favor or force the application of certain real world concepts.

 

The important part here is the tactical bit in the genre title. It's not Wolfenstein, or Counterstrike or Call of Duty or Battlefield. It's a different kind of game (even those games are different to each other), where it's impossible by design to excel and overcome obstacles solo. That doesn't mean it's not a PvP game. It's a team vs team game, so there is a combination of co-op and pvp in there. A PvP tag doesn't necessarily mean the game has to only be based on reflexes and hand-eye coordination skills. There are games like EvE online (sci-fi MMO with spaceships, etc) where everything (even industry/manufacturing and the market) are PvP. You can ruin someone's day (or months, or even years worth of someone's playtime) by not even firing a single shot, through cloak and dagger machinations with other players, or market manipulation. Yet, it's considered one of the most extreme PvP experiences in gaming, due to how punishing it is to lose.

 

And here-in lies a cornerstone of intelligent game design. A good game should be accessible, but  have consequences built in. Because a win is not meaningful if the consequence for losing is too light. It's the amount of consequence for the player's in-game actions that makes or breaks it for me in every single game i play in a semi-serious manner, regardless of genre and type.

 

For tactical shooters in particular, if i can run around the map with no regard for support, positioning and personal risk it sucks all the fun out of it, plus there are a ton of other games already that follow this formula (ie, it's not a tactical shooter anymore in my eyes, so i need to find something else that is). When i want to have some casual fun and do some run and gun i play team fortress 2, not Squad. For games where i actually care about getting immersed in the game world, i prefer the games that make me feel like an ordinary guy in extraordinary situations, and not a superhero. And Squad is a game where you're just a frontline soldier, which is what makes it enjoyable to me.

 

That doesn't mean what you like in gaming makes you a "bad" gamer or somehow inferior or whatever. You just want to play a different kind of game. The thing is that Squad does not aim to be that kind of game.

Edited by Burningbeard80

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