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aCeTotal

Destruction of vegetation

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It is time to implement the possibility of destroying trees and shrubs in Squad!

 

Give us the opportunity to drive over or blow up the vegetation. You can simply implement this: 

 

All vegetation is set to endure an amount of newtons before it goes from being static to falling with physics. Each vehicle adds newtons, which are calculated from the weight of the vehicle + speed. 

 

Trees: 2 parts. A stump + the rest of the tree. Modeled so that they look stripped apart, separately, but attached on top of each other so it looks like a whole tree, until it falls. Only the tree-part is affected by physics. When a vehicle that is heavy enough and has high enough speed and hits the tree, the tree falls at the same time as the vehicle gets a speed reduction / stop. By too little Newton force, the tree moves a bit, at the same time as branches / leaves fall down. 

 

Shrubs: Works the same way. Larger shrubs are torn off, while smaller ones are partially flattened. Leaves and branches should also fall down if projectiles hit the upper part of the tree. Gives a good feeling when you see that the leaves are falling while bullets are flying over our heads.

 

Of course, everything is replicated in real time and stored throughout the round.

 

Later on, fences and other things that are easily destroyed.

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My guess - is Arma 3 style vegetation destruction,just removed stump with all the rest of the tree would be enough at beginning.

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UE4 inherently being an arena engine currently struggles with 80 person multiplayer replication as it is. Not to be rude but I seriously doubt any such system could successfully be implemented into the game especially since the future goal is 100 player replication.

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A form of destruction must be implemented. The biggest tank can't get past the smallest bush in the game or gets stuck. That gives a wrong picture in my head.

If they skip this, they might as well go for infantry only.

 

It is trees, not characters that move nonstop through the whole round, with weapons, bulletpaths and hitboxes ect.


I don't think this will ruin the performance if it is done properly. I know that Unreal Engine today struggles, but it gets better and better.

I'd rather have 80 players and destruction than 100 players with boring and limited vehicle gameplay.

Edited by aCeTotal

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1 hour ago, aCeTotal said:

A form of destruction must be implemented. The biggest tank can't get past the smallest bush in the game or gets stuck. That gives a wrong picture in my head.

If they skip this, they might as well go for infantry only.

 

It is trees, not characters that move nonstop through the whole round, with weapons, bulletpaths and hitboxes ect.


I don't think this will ruin the performance if it is done properly. I know that Unreal Engine today struggles, but it gets better and better.

I'd rather have 80 players and destruction than 100 players with boring and limited vehicle gameplay.

Replicating downed foliage for 80 or 100 players would be tremendously difficult to do without a major performance decrease. What the devs have been doing is allowing certain bushes or fences to not cause collisions instead of being destroyed entirely, and that has largely stopped vehicles from getting stuck on bushes or small trees. With a little more improvement to the current system, destruction mechanics would be a visual/immersive change that wouldn't be worth the performance issues.

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1 hour ago, aCeTotal said:

The biggest tank can't get past the smallest bush in the game or gets stuck. That gives a wrong picture in my head.

You're kind of exaggerating at this point. I think OWI has done an excellent job implementing foliage into the game from the perspective of applying collision to specific trees and bushes that would have it in real life.

 

That said, I think you're kind of missing one of the primary reasons for having collision on the foliage in the first place. Obviously trees and bushes are in the game as visual props however their second purpose combined with the specific textures in the landscape material instance that effect vehicular traction is to replicate real terrain and keep vehicles on roads to calm the flow and pacing of the matches.

 

Is there a part of that level design you don't understand? I mean certainly you could have GTAV vehicle physics and collision models in Squad that would allow you to drive cross country across an 8km map in 5 minutes unfettered by 50 foot tall oak trees however that wouldn't be very realistic now would it be?

 

Pigs will sprout wings and fly before there is 80 player replication for 20+ vehicles crushing & destroying foliage across the entire map over the course of a hour long match. In theory it sounds cool but its completely and utterly impractical within the constraints of UE4 multiplayer replication. Don't believe me? Then go read up on the subject in Epic games documentation.

 

 

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Yeah it will be a long time before Squad can even think about having that level of destruction, it's simply not possible atm. Any game that has this type of destruction was built from the ground up with that in mind, even the engine itself (frostbite for battlefield) needs to have it implemented into it's core for it to go smoothly.

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This was a part of a wet dream I had a few days ago. I understand that this requires a lot - too much. But simple real time destructions should have been possible in 2019. 


Players have powerful hardware and connections, and servers today are powerful. If Squad had destruction of trees and fences, then it wouldn't have been possible to cross the map in 5 minutes. The vehicle loses the speed after one tree and it would be impossible or very time-consuming to drive over 50 trees one after the other.

If one chooses to drive a vehicle through the forest, the vehicle is a simple target. Very few are going to choose the forest over roads without trees. But when it is a random tree or fence that stands in the way, it should be destroyed. Squad is a great game. The best tactical PvP shooter I know of. The developers does a fantastic job! The best devs ever! Can't wait to see what they can do with the game in the future.

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6 hours ago, aCeTotal said:

But when it is a random tree or fence that stands in the way, it should be destroyed.

I agree there should be a way through single obstacles like these, and a destruction mechanic would really add to the game. Problem is, a real destruction mechanic would likely burn a hole through my poor little machine... I guess I need an upgrade anyways...

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I think the main problem is not so much local performance (it's just a single graphical animation after all), but the fact that there is a server in the middle of it all. For every tree you run over with a tank, that information has to be sent to the server, processed, relayed from the server to 79 other players and then for whoever is within view distance, that information has to also be rendered on their machines locally.

 

Then you'd have to choose who keeps the information about which tree is fallen and which is not. Do the player machines hold that data? That's easier on the server (it transmits the data once, whenever a tree drops) and harder on player machines (you get some of your RAM taken up by data that tells your PC how to render every single tree in the map). Or does the server send the data to each client if the player is within view range of a tree? That's easier on your machine (you only get the data for trees you need to render within your view distance) but harder on the server (it has to send that data to everyone in each processing cycle).

 

I assume it's not anything groundbreaking or terribly expensive in terms of server load, just one of those things that add up if you take into account all the other data that has to be transmitted back and forth, such as bullet trajectories, positions and speed of each unit, plus orientation (sometimes more than one per unit, eg a tank, hull faces one way, the main gun faces another, the turret MG yet another, and so on).

Edited by Burningbeard80

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