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elrammstein

Theory: Would squad have more players if gore was implemented?

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MORDHAU currently has 30k players, i understand that player bases fluctuate but it would be great to see 30k players on squad. that being said the gameplay in squad  is solid but could be further improved with some gory visuals, i.e more blood.  the prior thread cites a reason for this being the game would not be able to be sold in Germany so i guess my question is what is the German business case to not include gore and does it outweigh more sales? there could be a survey for this.

 

thread a long long time ago:

 

 

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Why is "more players" so important for so many people?

 

This "bigger community" thing keeps coming up in every thread.

 

Now we can run faster and that appeals to "more players". No insta death makes "more players" buy the game. Buddy rally and more forgiving gameplay will make "more people" buy the game.

 

Yeah well...then let´s just tell the company to design MORDHAU again and have "more people"...;)

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Gore doesn't add much to the game. For me Squad is all about the experience of a large battlefield, intense and long firefights with suppression, pinning and flanking and of course team communication and building. In these 3 sectors it excels beside it's genre leading sound design.

Call of Duty and Battlefield, the biggest games in this segment, don't have any gore or blood too. At least last time I played them. Squad actually has a lot of blood and uses it pretty clever for visual feedback, but that's more than sufficient in my opinion. See my latest firefight video episode 6 for a few gore examples in slow motion from Squad. 

 

Gore doesn't add anything to game mechanics and game dynamics and I highly doubt it would increase sale numbers.

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At this point gore and gibs would be absolutely silly considering I can snipe a dude with a TOW rocket and his buddy can come along and bandage his boo boo and he can be on his way.

 

As far as growing the community it is very important because games come and go all the time and if you've ever noticed when a game/community dies it typically isn't a gradual tapering off instead it's usually an exponential cascading event not unlike when a server empties out late in the evening.

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With the current death mechanics I don't see any need for increased gore or even dismemberment. Hell Let Loose has it and it really does add to the 'war is hell' shocking moments seeing the many bloody bodies sometimes but that game has 'better' (imho) death mechanics.

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Of course, it all depends on what the developers want to do with gore and the whole legal status of such a game, age restrictions and potential market bans in certain countries. But let's just assume they wanted to do it and had no problem selling the game with more violent visuals. In that case, i'll second what others have said regarding current death mechanics

 

In order to even consider gore, the "dead dead" state has to be brought back and it should also be possible to outright kill a player with a single hit, instead of simply incapacitating. Otherwise we'll be seeing medics patching up players whose limbs are already scattered across the rest of the squad. "There there buddy, let me just duct tape your legs back on and staple your arm back to your shoulder and you'll be fine". It would be immersion breaking to say the least :D

 

To add gore, they would have to include the possibility of instant kills, which bypass the incapacitated state, similar to what they had in Project Reality. Getting shot, 9 times out of 10 you could be revived. Then you had to be careful, because if you were shot again within 2 minutes after a revive, you were dead for good and had to respawn. The interesting part with regards to gore is that you could be killed outright via headshots or explosions, if the explosion happened close enough to you. So for example, a mortar landing close by might only wound or incapacitate you, but if it was a more or less direct hit, you would be looking at the respawn screen without the chance to call for a medic. Same for any kind of explosives, like LAT/HAT rockets, IEDs and even grenades. In fact, it was common practice for grenadiers to keep launching grenades at downed enemies, not only to get the responding medics as well, but also to secure the kill against those who were just incapacitated from the first hit and waiting for a revive (players would still take damage from explosives in the incapacitated state). In a similar manner, if you got hit by the first round in a mortar barrage, chances were the following rounds would finish you off before the medics had a chance to respond and revive you.

 

In cases like these, it would definitely make sense to depict gore, because the visual representation of what is happening would coincide with what is possible in terms of game mechanics. If someone cannot be revived and it's a kill involving accurate or prolonged use of HE, then by all means go crazy on the gore, dismember that character model, whatever. But if the player can be revived, his in-game body should not exhibit any excessive depiction of wounds or dismemberment, because it would break immersion to see them shake it all off and keep jogging around the battlefield, when they were reduced to a bloody pulp only a few seconds ago.

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On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 4:21 PM, elrammstein said:

MORDHAU currently has 30k players, i understand that player bases fluctuate but it would be great to see 30k players on squad. that being said the gameplay in squad  is solid but could be further improved with some gory visuals, i.e more blood.  the prior thread cites a reason for this being the game would not be able to be sold in Germany so i guess my question is what is the German business case to not include gore and does it outweigh more sales? there could be a survey for this.

 

thread a long long time ago:

 

 

Of course it would draw in more players, but not just for that reason alone. Its a factor and not a major reason people would play. The feeling of "Holy crap" seeing someone head flap open up. But honestly, small arms bullets don't cause too much gore to the torso. Its mostly head/arm/leg or other limb shots that make the nasty looking shredded meat. Then of course the bigger weapons that make bodies turn to pile of dust that settled on top, so bombs don't usually cause blood leaking gore like someone getting knifed. On top of the fact liver mortis of the blood sinking to lowest laid out parts of dead body takes away the blood effect if applied properly. Guts, blood, bone, flesh, organs.... that's all we are physically. For some reason posts about this bother forum admins. Its funny how people who make rules or enforce them because they want to apply... sometimes they just do things to make them comfortable off the assumption it makes others comfortable. Like they get mad when they have to say "We clearly said this will not be implemented and closed the thread"... despite the fact its clearly discussion theory not an addition idea. Also they would legally have to ESRB their game with a rating.

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16 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Why is "more players" so important for so many people?

 

This "bigger community" thing keeps coming up in every thread.

 

Now we can run faster and that appeals to "more players". No insta death makes "more players" buy the game. Buddy rally and more forgiving gameplay will make "more people" buy the game.

 

Yeah well...then let´s just tell the company to design MORDHAU again and have "more people"...;)

there's arguments to be made that an active playerbase contributes towards the longevity of a game.

 

we can all sit here and claim, "but Project Reality!" but the fact remains that there's only a very small, committed concurrent playerbase for PR. OWI is a business, after all, and despite their claims of wanting to design a truly great FPS that is directly inspired by the great experience that PR was (and still is, in some cases), they're also concerned with money. People don't design release-quality assets for video games like Squad for free unless they're doing it as a passion project and releasing it through mods for the community to enjoy. And I'm fairly certain OWI would like to continue selling copies and attracting new players and seeing Squad live even a fraction as long as PR has with hopefully a larger playerbase than PR can generally muster on any given day of the week. Consider the amount of time, money and energy invested in bringing this game to market and then compare it to the dividends received so far. I've no idea how much money they've made, or if they've managed to break even on what it's taken to bring Squad to market -- but what I am absolutely certain of is that the longer they can keep Squad populated with players, the higher the chances are of attracting new players (and thus, selling more copies and increasing the return on their investment). It's honestly pretty simple.

 

And from a player standpoint, you can sit there and claim Squad/PR/<niche FPS game here> isn't *dying* but that entirely depends on what your definition of a 'dead multiplayer game' means.

 

In my opinion, while it's great there's still a dedicated playerbase for PR keeping up servers -- when you consider what it takes to keep that going (usually a very small portion of the playerbase funding it), it's easier to imagine it being a lot closer to being flatlined -- cold -- dead -- than you may have originally wanted to. If I log onto a multiplayer game and see the same exact handful of servers running the same exact map rotations for the generally same group of people on the regular, that's where my personal definition of "dead" comes into play. But if you don't like the word "dead," feel free to use the term "barely hanging on."

 

Plus a bigger community gives everyone the chance to fit into more smaller groups they can enjoy the game with. Let's not be silly and try to claim that the community for a multiplayer game doesn't affect anybody's enjoyment of it. That's patently false. The larger a game's playerbase is, the more chances any individual player in that community has to find a niche they can fit into and thus enjoy the game even moreso. What if you logged on one day to find one of your favorite multiplayer game communities essentially populated by a majority of people that either you didn't like, or just didn't like you for some reason? Or what if a new player logged on and just for whatever reason the majority of players in the community weren't friendly to newcomers? I'd wager a new player might not feel very stoked to then undertake the process of learning how to play the game and become somebody the rest of that majority felt was worth giving their time of day to. I'd wager OWI feels strongly compelled to try to continue refining and updating Squad so as to be able to deliver on their original goals and also continue to bring back old players, attract new ones and keep selling copies.

 

But this is all so subjective. I'm just sitting here checking in on the forums and I too see this topic come up a lot and felt like giving my 2 cents.

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the current a13 red mist indicating a hit is plenty

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3 hours ago, suds said:

the current a13 red mist indicating a hit is plenty

I totally agree. There doesn't need to be Soldier Of Fortune giblets in Squad although I wouldn't be against it. Plus upon death theres plenty of variety in the death animations and ragdolling with bodies contorting in akward positions and flying around up in the air from explosions. I double tapped a fully loaded Stryker this morning with the Spandrel and the resulting explosion and multiple bodies flying never fails to illicit a good chuckle.

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18 hours ago, IRONXBAY said:

Plus a bigger community gives everyone the chance to fit into more smaller groups they can enjoy the game with. Let's not be silly and try to claim that the community for a multiplayer game doesn't affect anybody's enjoyment of it. That's patently false. The larger a game's playerbase is, the more chances any individual player in that community has to find a niche they can fit into and thus enjoy the game even moreso. What if you logged on one day to find one of your favorite multiplayer game communities essentially populated by a majority of people that either you didn't like, or just didn't like you for some reason?

I understand your point but numbers should be as high as posible within the game´s own identity. And some people feel that some mechanics ara step in a different direction.

 

Am I saying this is COD?...NO!...period.

 

Now. Your argument that "the larger a player base is the more chances I have to find a niche" is not completely true.

If I jump into PR right now, chances are that 99% of players know how to play the game, and that 50% are very experienced. And that happens in almost every round in PR. 

So in this case, the bigger the community the harder it is for me to find people who want to play the same kind of game. 

 

Now your second question is weird for me. I don´t log in to find people I don´t like. That has never happened to me (In any game). Player base is already too big for that.

 

Going back on topic.

 

If Gore appealed to players that preffer gore over tactics (not really a contradiction), I vote no Gore. Some games advertise and sell copies based on that. I wouldn´t like squad to become that.

 

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I think that the player base for Squad is healthy.

 

Mordhau has a lot of players right now because of way different reasons. It has a nice melee system and it offers chaotic large battles, but also pretty deep and demanding 1vs1 Combat. Rounds are also relatively short. Gore is just a tiny detail in the game.

 

From a practical stand point gore would be extremely complicated in Squad. Gore is often used as hit/kill registration/feedback. A lot of "kills" in Squad are not kills. Players get downed and they often can and will get revived. It would be very confusing if you have a lot of blood or dismemberment if the player just stands up a minute later like nothing happened.

 

Another "good" part about Squad is that you often don't know if you killed somebody over medium to longer ranges. He might have gone prone, or maybe he got revived. You would take this away with gore on kills. 

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Hell Let Loose will blow your mind. But not only your mind, it will blow compe.............. See you on the battlefield

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5 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

Hell Let Loose will blow your mind. But not only your mind, it will blow compe.............. See you on the battlefield

Lol!

 

;)

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On 5/29/2019 at 2:11 AM, MeFirst said:

I think that the player base for Squad is healthy.

 

Mordhau has a lot of players right now because of way different reasons. It has a nice melee system and it offers chaotic large battles, but also pretty deep and demanding 1vs1 Combat. Rounds are also relatively short. Gore is just a tiny detail in the game.

 

From a practical stand point gore would be extremely complicated in Squad. Gore is often used as hit/kill registration/feedback. A lot of "kills" in Squad are not kills. Players get downed and they often can and will get revived. It would be very confusing if you have a lot of blood or dismemberment if the player just stands up a minute later like nothing happened.

 

Another "good" part about Squad is that you often don't know if you killed somebody over medium to longer ranges. He might have gone prone, or maybe he got revived. You would take this away with gore on kills. 

Agreed. Plus Mordhau is another "flash in pan" game imho that is shallow as a mud puddle. It peaked at 60k, dropped down to 20k now and I'm willing to bet in a few months it will level out to around 1000. Apples and oranges really.

 

 

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squad will never ever have 30k players, no game in this genre comes close to those numbers

the playerbase is quite healthy all things considered

I've recently got a few of my friends into this game, the things that turn them off are the bugs, lack of feedback and when we get rolled

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20 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Agreed. Plus Mordhau is another "flash in pan" game imho that is shallow as a mud puddle. It peaked at 60k, dropped down to 20k now and I'm willing to bet in a few months it will level out to around 1000. Apples and oranges really.

 

 

Well personally I don't think the game is shallow but the game gets a different attention. The most basic level of Mordhau which is 64 players doing chaotic battles is attractive to streamers. So the game got a lot of attention from that. It is only normal that the big streamers move on to another game (not talking about streamers getting directly paid to paly this game) and with that the numbers also drop. 

 

I also got some friends back into playing the game since it is much better on a technical position and it also massively improved on the gameplay front. 

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Gore is so not what Squad is about. And it doesn't add anything at all to the gameplay and depth.

Personally I also like to have more adult-oriented graphics but there are so much much more things that should be added to improve gameplay and depth.

 

And in in FAQ, OWI have already stated as below :

Gore body parts? 
There will be NO! gore added into this game but when modding becomes available fill free to get creative, join the discussion

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Gore would be good but instead we get unless things like voice call outs 

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1 hour ago, ZXD_Lee said:

Gore would be good but instead we get unless things like voice call outs 

Make sure and fill out the recent survey regarding this very topic if you haven't already.

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Never much got the point of gore in multiplayer shooters. Just adds to processing loads and after a while has little to no emotional impact (we are all numb to the violence :P)

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Posted (edited)

Insurgency sandstorm (with Gore) 5 mil copies sold. Online still low

Edited by paragonid

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24 minutes ago, paragonid said:

Insurgency sandstorm (with Gore) 5 mil copies sold. Online still low

Yep. And more people playing the previous Insurgency than Insurgency Sandstorm.

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