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It's always (most of the time) like King of the Hill, even in RAAS. Most squads will rush for the mid in early game and the tactical aspect comes off badly.

The tactical aspect is happening in the first 3 min and that it. Once both Teams get their HAB's running its swarm vs swarm and the first team that can successfully c4 the opponent radio first will often win the hill/round.

A Comeback rarely happened, the game ends either due to the ticket be grinded down or by a destroyed radio.

Good aim is currently more Important than a good position/tactic. Even if you sprint around ~50% stamina you can still do hip flick shots <25m and win the engagement by just running until you find something to shoot for.

 

I thought maybe squads tournaments like SCC are more tactical but I got disappointed because of its even more rush gameplay.

 

I don't like that kind of playstyle and each round feels kind of the same.
 

 




 

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With the no dead-dead state why wouldn't players just rush in?

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Posted (edited)

This might look counter intuitive at first, but i think a big part of why this happens and why we get "easy" spawn mechanics like the buddy rally and no "dead dead" penalty is because of our reduced mobility/travel options. It's just not much fun walking across the entire map and with the amount of logis we usually have, a couple of misplaced/disabled vehicles can completely cripple a team into not having enough FOBs mid-game.

 

At first glance, it might seem that having more mobility would encourage more rushing. On the other hand, having the extra mobility means that we wouldn't need buddy rallies anymore and we could go back to having a "dead dead" state. People don't have to magically spawn all over the map or be given infinite revives in a short time, as long as they can travel across the map at a reasonable pace.

More transports also give players more flanking opportunities, either through moving a squad at a time or through the ability to place more hidden FOBs.

 

Compare most Squad maps with it's precursor game, the Project Reality mod for Battlefield 2, and you'll see that even in maps that don't have transport choppers available, each side usually gets about 3-4 transport trucks and a comparable number of jeeps/technicals/humvees, in addition to the logis (although logis in PR only carry 2 people). The majority of the team can easily get across the map in a couple of minutes, with maybe 1-2 squads left back at base and waiting for the choppers to make a second trip (in maps that have them). This is counter-balanced by FOBs having a larger disable radius when enemies are close and the existence of a dead dead timer that is 2 whole minutes long. But people don't mind it, because they can get where they need to be even if they spawn all the way back at main. So, convenience for the average player stays the same (even if you die, you can get across the map and back to your squad in a couple of minutes), but you don't have spawn and death mechanics that encourage rushing/feeding gameplay. In addition to that, i think that blowing up a FOB doesn't make all the emplacements magically disappear (if i remember correctly).

 

I think the addition of helicopters and the increase of wheeled transport across all maps and layers would be a good way to solve the travel problem, so that we could then get the dead dead state back and scrap the buddy rally feature. Of course, this would mean also increasing tickets for each side to maintain the current average duration of a round, since a lot more asset destruction would take place. Still, it's doable and the devs themselves know how to do it from the time they were working on the PR mod. For comparison's sake, i think most AAS maps in PR start each team out with 600 tickets, as opposed to the 300 or so we get in Squad.

 

I also touched on this point in my post about helicopters in the feedback and suggestions subforum. It's quite the long read but take a look if you're interested:

 

Edited by Burningbeard80

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6 hours ago, Burningbeard80 said:

This might look counter intuitive at first, but i think a big part of why this happens and why we get "easy" spawn mechanics like the buddy rally and no "dead dead" penalty is because of our reduced mobility/travel options. It's just not much fun walking across the entire map and with the amount of logis we usually have, a couple of misplaced/disabled vehicles can completely cripple a team into not having enough FOBs mid-game.

3

The current Gameplay needs some downtime. Walking only isn't fun if you don't small talk with your group, srsly that can be the funniest thing in the round even if you didn't get a single kill. That would give the opposing team some much-needed time to set up a proper defence. What isn't fun either is getting demolished while driving to the next defend flag or getting overrun before you even had a chance to place the fob. For vehicles, people need to learn how to manage them. Instead of grabbing a  fresh new logi everytime from main you could spawn near one on the field and get that one back/running again or like someone suggested in another thread buying logi's for ticket in main that you can waste 10 of them unused after the first run. Last but not least vehicles have downtime too if they get damaged or destroyed the need their time to get back into the business and no one is complaining about that. So why shouldn't the infantry have some downtime as well if they misplaced their rally or executed their plan poorly? In case you really don't like some downtime just play another game with that kind of mentality designed for.

 

6 hours ago, Burningbeard80 said:

At first glance, it might seem that having more mobility would encourage more rushing. On the other hand, having the extra mobility means that we wouldn't need buddy rallies anymore and we could go back to having a "dead dead" state. People don't have to magically spawn all over the map or be given infinite revives in a short time, as long as they can travel across the map at a reasonable pace.

More transports also give players more flanking opportunities, either through moving a squad at a time or through the ability to place more hidden FOBs.

 

The SL buddy rallies could easily be replaced by a commander rally once the commander has finally arrived, the dead dead state could be back with even 120 seconds instead of the tiny 60 second and all would be fine because the overall speed would slow down and people would start to play with a tactic in mind again instead of just rushing. I would be fine with more transports because of it's possible to Intercept them or hearing them arriving instead of magically summon the whole team on your own rally.

6 hours ago, Burningbeard80 said:

Compare most Squad maps with it's precursor game, the Project Reality mod for Battlefield 2, and you'll see that even in maps that don't have transport choppers available, each side usually gets about 3-4 transport trucks and a comparable number of jeeps/technicals/humvees, in addition to the logis (although logis in PR only carry 2 people). The majority of the team can easily get across the map in a couple of minutes, with maybe 1-2 squads left back at base and waiting for the choppers to make a second trip (in maps that have them). This is counter-balanced by FOBs having a larger disable radius when enemies are close and the existence of a dead dead timer that is 2 whole minutes long. But people don't mind it, because they can get where they need to be even if they spawn all the way back at main. So, convenience for the average player stays the same (even if you die, you can get across the map and back to your squad in a couple of minutes), but you don't have spawn and death mechanics that encourage rushing/feeding gameplay. In addition to that, i think that blowing up a FOB doesn't make all the emplacements magically disappear (if i remember correctly)

4

In PR any vehicle no matter what could transport more than 8 ppl (hardcoded)
so 2 transport trucks in PR is 1 transport in squad. For the Logi, you didn't need to fit 9 ppl in that for 2 reasons. First The SL can place a fob with 2 creates instead of 2 team members. Second, the rally was instead but with 60-second timer until the rally disappear unless you set the really near 2 grids of a friendly FOB or APC/IFV. I prefer the PR rally because that one was more dynamic. The 2 min dead dead timer was pretty useful because the players value their virtual life especially after being revived and 90 % of them played defensively within the 2 minutes. The FOB becomes disabled for 30 seconds if 1 enemy is within 10m, 2 enemies within 50m, 4 enemies within 100m or 8 enemies within 150m. I'm pretty sure heavy assets like tow mortar etc.pp. disappeared cant test that cause of CTD crashes.

6 hours ago, Burningbeard80 said:

I think the addition of helicopters and the increase of wheeled transport across all maps and layers would be a good way to solve the travel problem, so that we could then get the dead dead state back and scrap the buddy rally feature. Of course, this would mean also increasing tickets for each side to maintain the current average duration of a round, since a lot more asset destruction would take place. Still, it's doable and the devs themselves know how to do it from the time they were working on the PR mod. For comparison's sake, i think most AAS maps in PR start each team out with 600 tickets, as opposed to the 300 or so we get in Squad.

3

Totally agree with you on that one.

6 hours ago, Burningbeard80 said:

More transports also give players more flanking opportunities, either through moving a squad at a time or through the ability to place more hidden FOBs.

 

For comparison's sake, i think most AAS maps in PR start each team out with 600 tickets, as opposed to the 300 or so we get in Squad.

 

 

1

The maximum round timer in PR is 4 hours compared to Squads 2 hours, however, the usual round duration in PR was between 1 & 2 hours. For Squad the usual round duration 30min to 1 hour, that's why I don't see any problem if squads ticket would be raised by additional ~ 50%-100%. Just let us use the 2hours that we have but with the meat grinder that happened daily, that kind of stuff is rarely happening. With a longer round duration, we would see more fob's in general and we could give people more time to set up and execute their tactics, and I would bet every player and the game itself would benefit with such a change.

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Every single day hearing comparison/contrasts and people waxing nostalgic over PR and how great it was seems ridiculous to me. Instead of reminiscing about PR why not just go play it instead if it's so great? Servers apparently are still up and people are still working on it so why not just go play it instead of endless bloviations about the "if only Squad was simply a re-skinned PR" narrative?

 

 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Every single day hearing comparison/contrasts and people waxing nostalgic over PR and how great it was seems ridiculous to me. Instead of reminiscing about PR why not just go play it instead if it's so great? Servers apparently are still up and people are still working on it so why not just go play it instead of endless bloviations about the "if only Squad was simply a re-skinned PR" narrative?

 

 

Because that what they advertised/promised to us, backers/founders.

 

Quote

Why the name change and lack of an official connection to Project Reality?

While many of our developers have worked on PR past and present, using the PR name would present a number of complications. First and most importantly, it would cause licensing issues for PR2. PR2 is currently a strictly non-commercial endeavor, and to affiliate our game with PR officially would jeopardize their licensing status, which as it stands makes such a situation unworkable.

Additionally, while PR was originally started and evolved around the idea of making the BF2 experience more realistic, the central focus of Squad will be on establishing and encouraging the culture of teamwork that made PR the game it was.

Squad will embody that ideal through the framework we create.

 

3
 

Soruce: PR Forum https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131654

 

We supported the whole project since the early days. Helping to spread the word in all clans/communities and on all websites.

 

Steam GrennlightClans that backed/supported/spreaded the word Squad

Tactical Gamer - tacticalgamer.com

Drakelings - bluedrake42.com

PR Teamwork Alliance - prteamwork.com

CIA - ciagaming.org

DevilDogGamer - devildoggamer.com

OD-S - od-sierra.org

Squad Brasil - joinsquadbrasil.com.br

Big D - bigdgaming.net

The Art of War - taw.net

New - newcommunity.eu

Comunidade Gamer http://www.comunidadegamer.com.br

7Cav http://www.7thcavalry.us

3DAC - 3dac.co

Consortium Horizon - consortium-horizon.com

aVarice Gaming - avagaming.com.au

Mappers United - mappersunited.com

Italian Warfare and Esercito Italiano - http://www.clan-ei.com

Project Awesome - reddit.com/r/ProjectAwesome

Divsul Brasil - divsul.com

Team SFS - www.teamsfsmilsim.com

Joinsquad russia - joinsquad.ru

BR Devils - www.brdevils.com.br

Source: Squad Kickstarter Campaign https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/offworldindustries/squad/description

 

That's why we care so much and we tried/tested a lot of stuff like local voice can be heard by everyone even the opponent team and guess what that didn't run well down the line. We played that type of game for years with all the limitations and we wanted something new as well like the modder team behind the scenes. Insider Fast-ropes.  We know what worked well and we also can test new ways to further improve such gameplay but for that, we need the get the core right. There is just so much potential and could be easily fixed by just adjusting 3-4 screws into the correct spot.

 

We didn't want just a modern re-skinned PR, we want something better with more improvements and quality of life features that enhanced the whole experience across the board for all players. Maybe you can relate to that someday.

 

Best regrets and have a nice day.

Edited by Phoenixstorm
edit: missing quote

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Every single day hearing comparison/contrasts and people waxing nostalgic over PR and how great it was seems ridiculous to me. Instead of reminiscing about PR why not just go play it instead if it's so great? Servers apparently are still up and people are still working on it so why not just go play it instead of endless bloviations about the "if only Squad was simply a re-skinned PR" narrative?

Do you like movies? If some one makes a sequel of your favorite movie you expect it to be related to it, story and content wise. NO? It is the same here with PR and Squad, i don't get the people who rage about it.

Concerning the more than boring meta we have, I totally agree witch Phoenixstorm. This rush the middle and throw yourself in the meat grinder is not enjoyable. I expect more from a game that claims:

"The battlefield of Squad is built around organized teams using both the environment and the assets available within the game to wage a tactical battle against an opposing team.... teamwork amplifies the effectiveness of the tools at your disposal".

I hope we see tweaks and changes to game mechanics in the future, that will transform the gameplay we currently have. Many ideas have already been posted in this forum and can be viewed in.

Edited by Axel

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Posted (edited)

1. Make supplies work properly*. Double the supply cost for small arms, quadruple the supplies cost for AT rockets. Supplies must cost a lot, AT must be meaningful weapon used appropriately.

2. Respawn must cost supplies. Rally points must have limited amount of respawns.

3. Double recoil for scopes with magnification. Increased sway.

4. Weapon sway must be connected with stamina bar.

5. Stamina bar must be connected with equipment weight.

6. Random unpredictable weapon sway to prevent macros recoil control.

7. Medicine like stated here https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/offworldindustries/squad/posts/1265547 Some

8. Run speed reduced.

9. Knife kill for wounded enemies to prevent medical heal.

10. You should not be able to heal or use bandage while moving.

11. Rally point respawn timer increased for every squad member death. Probably, the same mechanic for any team member death in FOB radius.

 

P. S. *Maybe move from tickets to supplies only. Limited amount of supplies per round.

P. P. S. *Every point has limited supplies. Every point (except Main) provide supplies to team that has captured it (zone supplies depletes). All supplies on Main are available at the beginning of match.

Edited by Ruplay

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

1. Make supplies work properly.

 

What do you mean exactly?

1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

1. Double the supply cost for small arms,

 

Agreed

1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

1. quadruple the supplies cost for AT rockets.

 

Disagreed, LAT's already deal too little damage.

 

1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

2. Respawn must cost supplies.

 

We already have perma ammo, respawn doesn't refill your ammunition, unless you spawn at main. And you lose a ticket.

1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

2.  Rally points must have limited amount of respawns.

1

Semi-Agreed or they should disappear after some seconds unless a friendly fob/apc/ifv is near them.

1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

3. Double recoil for scopes with magnification.

 

Would like to test that in a playtest.

1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

4. Weapon sway must be connected with stamina bar

1

Agreed, that would punish certain players if they didn't manage their stamina wisely in hot areas.

1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

5. Stamina bar must be connected with equipment weight.

 

Could work very well once the loadout is customisable. For example, have an option to spawn with less ammo/equipment than standard.

1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

6. Medicine like stated here https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/offworldindustries/squad/posts/1265547

7. Walk speed reduced.

 

Agreed, that would be a high-risk high-reward playstyle if you wanna rush in certain areas.

1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

8. Random unpredictable weapon sway to prevent macros recoil control.

1

I don't know if that's a thing but I'm neutral on that topic currently, because other issues are more important in my opinion.

Edited by Phoenixstorm

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Phoenixstorm said:
2 hours ago, Ruplay said:

1. Make supplies work properly.

 

What do you mean exactly?

Supplies must be an issue. It must worth more for squads and FOBs. No supply = no respawn, no ammo. Players should understand that supplies is a resource that must be spent with knowledge. I think all gameplay must depend on supplies. Players must ask themselfs, should I use that weapon/ammo against that target, should I respawn on main to carry supplies to FOB to make it possible to spawn next time?
 

1 hour ago, Phoenixstorm said:
2 hours ago, Ruplay said:

1. quadruple the supplies cost for AT rockets.

 

Disagreed, LAT's already deal too little damage.

All AT rockets must have high cost for the whole squad and used appropriate for vehicle destruction only. Because ATs are weapons with splash damage/weapons of mass destruction able to kill the whole squad with one rocket. LAT must be able to destroy unarmored vehicle, damage armored, do nothing vs tanks. HAT must be able to destroy tanks. One of them should be able to carry and use AP rockets. I think that should be only LAT.

Edited by Ruplay

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25 minutes ago, Ruplay said:

Supplies must be an issue. It must worth more for squads and FOBs. No supply = no respawn, no ammo. Players should understand that supplies is a resource that must be spent with knowledge. I think all gameplay must depend on supplies. Players must ask themselfs, should I use that weapon/ammo against that target, should I respawn on main to carry supplies to FOB to make it possible to spawn next time?

2

Ah, is see your point and I'm unsure about that but generally, that could work with some polishment.

25 minutes ago, Ruplay said:

All AT rockets must have high cost for the whole squad and used appropriate for vehicle destruction only. Because ATs are weapons with splash damage/weapons of mass destruction able to kill the whole squad with one rocket. LAT must be able to destroy unarmored vehicle, damage armored, do nothing vs tanks. HAT must be able to destroy tanks. One of them should be able to carry and use AP rockets. I think that should be only LAT.

 

Agreed, +1. Especially for unarmored Vehicles like trucks & techies.

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5 hours ago, Phoenixstorm said:

Because that what they advertised/promised to us, backers/founders.

I'm familiar with the Kickstarter page and it makes no specific mention of recreating PR only some vague references like "carry on the legacy" & "spiritual successor" in other sources. No promises were made about remaking PR in UE4.

 

That said, you never even remotely answered my question about if people think PR is so great then why not go play and improve it instead?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I'm familiar with the Kickstarter page and it makes no specific mention of recreating PR only some vague references like "carry on the legacy" & "spiritual successor" in other sources. No promises were made about remaking PR in UE4.

 

That said, you never even remotely answered my question about if people think PR is so great then why not go play and improve it instead?

Quote

We played that type of game for years with all the limitations and we wanted something new as well like the modder team behind the scenes.

 

These limitations, for example, you can't create any vehicle with more than 8 seats because that's hardcoded by the refractor engine.

Edited by Phoenixstorm
spelling

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10 hours ago, Phoenixstorm said:

(A very detailed answer to my reply)

So basically we agree on almost everything. When i say walking across the map is not much fun, it's because in the current meta you more or less know when it's dangerous and when it's not. The majority of FOBs are placed right on the point or very close to it, almost nobody builds hidden FOBs and almost nobody uses mortars consistently. After 20 hours of gameplay across most popular maps, you just know what to expect for the most part. "Hey, i can walk from here to here with relative safety and it will probably get tough from here to there, ok let's do it."

 

With bigger maps and more assets around, walking across the map is in fact very much fun, because there is more uncertainty involved. Maybe nothing will happen and you reach your jump-off point for the assault. Or maybe someone dropped 2 people in an ambush position and your whole squad is annihilated by a well placed AR and a spotter/marksman with binoculars. Or someone set up a hidden forward mortar FOB and you get wiped by some well placed rounds. Creating opportunities for uncertainty is one of the best mechanics for any kind of wargame in general. And yes, some of my best PR moments were like that, going on a deep flanking mission via chopper insertion and taking sudden contact in the woods from unexpected directions. It simulates the old saying that war is 90% boredom and 10% horror very well. Which brings me to my next point.

 

1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I'm familiar with the Kickstarter page and it makes no specific mention of recreating PR only some vague references like "carry on the legacy" & "spiritual successor" in other sources. No promises were made about remaking PR in UE4.

 

That said, you never even remotely answered my question about if people think PR is so great then why not go play and improve it instead?

People who play Squad do play PR at the same time. In fact, some of them play much more PR than Squad for the exact same reasons we are discussing (more assets, bigger maps, a more dynamic meta, slower paced matches, a higher emphasis on strategy and positioning rather than close quarters gunfights, etc). The "improve it" part however is unfortunately limited by the age of the old BF2 engine, some things are hard-coded and impossible to change. However, people understand that things take time and realize that you can't expect a 3- year old Squad and a 12-year old PR mod to have the same amount of vehicles,factions and maps. They are just playing both, until Squad catches up in the content department, at least as far as their favorite features are concerned. But if i had a coin for every time i've heard someone say "yeah, i'll move over to Squad completely when they implement [insert your favorite not-yet-implemented feature here]", i'd be a millionaire.

 

To be perfectly honest with you, everyone who has been around since before the announcement of Squad's development knows that Squad is supposed to be a successor to PR and was marketed as such, so they very reasonably expect it to play like it. There are tons of run and gun shooters on the market with varying decrees of complexity, but there are not too many games like Squad and PR. It would be a shame if we started with something unique and made it something similar to everything else. Don't get me wrong, the game is very enjoyable for me in its current state. But that doesn't mean there are not things that i miss and wish to see in the game at some point down the line. And to be fair, this cycle of experimenting by the devs and community feedback is the whole point of having a public alpha/early access release. Feedback doesn't have to be positive all the time, as long as it's constructive.

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Man i couldn't agree more with that last post, being an old PR player myself, i backed Squad because they said that they would make it a spiritual successor to it. Which means that it should in fact, play very similar and give off a similar feeling that you had when playing PR. At this moment this is not the case yet, Squad is amazing in it's own right, and truly unique so far, but it still misses things, or could improve upon things.

My personal wish list for Squad would be:

 

-Helicopters, both CAS and transport.

 

-Timed rallypoints for like 30 seconds or so, and you can create a new one after about 10 minutes. So that timing actually becomes important, and that a rallypoint doesn't just become another spawn point. HABs and the main base should be where you spawn most of the time (when helicopters arrive spawning back at main is actually really solid choice). It'll also make supply lines more important to protect, and move logi trucks in convoys with an APC or IFV.

 

-Dedicated squads to certain assets (server option for this would be neat). Having an infantry squad be just that, infantry, forces it to work together way better with the team, since they'll rely on the dedicated squad for APC's to help them out whenever needed. People will automatically play together much better if they have a solid reason to, currently that's kinda lacking in Squad most of the time.

 

-Team commander complete with assets and support options. A commander can often see what the squad leaders can't, since they're more busy fighting at times. If squad leaders aren't working together very well, the commander could help them with that aswell.

 

-Boats and amphibious vehicles.

 

-Water actually being barriers on the map, making not only the objectives, but also things like bridges and fords important to hold controll over.

 

-More maps (Fallujah, Yamalo, other maps they say they're working on idk).

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23 minutes ago, Burningbeard80 said:

So basically we agree on almost everything. When i say walking across the map is not much fun, it's because in the current meta you more or less know when it's dangerous and when it's not. The majority of FOBs are placed right on the point or very close to it, almost nobody builds hidden FOBs and almost nobody uses mortars consistently. After 20 hours of gameplay across most popular maps, you just know what to expect for the most part. "Hey, i can walk from here to here with relative safety and it will probably get tough from here to there, ok let's do it."

 

With bigger maps and more assets around, walking across the map is in fact very much fun, because there is more uncertainty involved. Maybe nothing will happen and you reach your jump-off point for the assault. Or maybe someone dropped 2 people in an ambush position and your whole squad is annihilated by a well placed AR and a spotter/marksman with binoculars. Or someone set up a hidden forward mortar FOB and you get wiped by some well placed rounds. Creating opportunities for uncertainty is one of the best mechanics for any kind of wargame in general. And yes, some of my best PR moments were like that, going on a deep flanking mission via chopper insertion and taking sudden contact in the woods from unexpected directions. It simulates the old saying that war is 90% boredom and 10% horror very well. Which brings me to my next point.

 

People who play Squad do play PR at the same time. In fact, some of them play much more PR than Squad for the exact same reasons we are discussing (more assets, bigger maps, a more dynamic meta, slower paced matches, a higher emphasis on strategy and positioning rather than close quarters gunfights, etc). The "improve it" part however is unfortunately limited by the age of the old BF2 engine, some things are hard-coded and impossible to change. However, people understand that things take time and realize that you can't expect a 3- year old Squad and a 12-year old PR mod to have the same amount of vehicles,factions and maps. They are just playing both, until Squad catches up in the content department, at least as far as their favorite features are concerned. But if i had a coin for every time i've heard someone say "yeah, i'll move over to Squad completely when they implement [insert your favorite not-yet-implemented feature here]", i'd be a millionaire.

 

To be perfectly honest with you, everyone who has been around since before the announcement of Squad's development knows that Squad is supposed to be a successor to PR and was marketed as such, so they very reasonably expect it to play like it. There are tons of run and gun shooters on the market with varying decrees of complexity, but there are not too many games like Squad and PR. It would be a shame if we started with something unique and made it something similar to everything else. Don't get me wrong, the game is very enjoyable for me in its current state. But that doesn't mean there are not things that i miss and wish to see in the game at some point down the line. And to be fair, this cycle of experimenting by the devs and community feedback is the whole point of having a public alpha/early access release. Feedback doesn't have to be positive all the time, as long as it's constructive.

Thank you, I couldn't describe that anyway better.

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Posted (edited)

 

8 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I'm familiar with the Kickstarter page and it makes no specific mention of recreating PR only some vague references like "carry on the legacy" & "spiritual successor" in other sources. No promises were made about remaking PR in UE4.

That FAQ line is pretty specific in my book:

t15IK52.png

Edited by rincewind

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1 hour ago, rincewind said:

 

That FAQ line is pretty specific in my book:

t15IK52.png

Nostalgia is a funny thing you know. Honestly, you can never go back in time as much as we'd like to. All of you should just live in the present and simply enjoy the current iteration of the game you perceive that you think you want in realtime. This particular game will never replace your concept of the PR replacement you desire any more than it will replace the Delta Force: Joint Operations game that I want in my mind this game to be. That said, evolving Squad into something that grows the community is most likely a positive attribute and shouldn't be viewed so harshly.

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47 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Nostalgia is a funny thing you know. 

Ahh the passing of time leads to nostalgia not being what it used to be anymore.

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2 hours ago, rincewind said:

 

That FAQ line is pretty specific in my book:

t15IK52.png

Squad has never intended to be prettier PR on a new engine, hence why it's a spiritual successor and not a clone or PR 2.0 - There was a PR 2 project for that exact reason, to bring PR to a new engine and bring it up to modern standards(Even though that project fell through). 

OWI is simply using their experience from helping develop Project Reality, the good and bad, while taking inspiration from the formula of Project Reality that creates an environment that emphasizes communication and teamwork, to build the foundation of Squad - While adding their own ideas, twists and turns to give Squad its own identity, to make it Squad(What a spiritual successor is)

 

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4 minutes ago, Dubs said:

OWI is simply using their experience from helping develop Project Reality, the good and bad, while taking inspiration from the formula of Project Reality that creates an environment that emphasizes communication and teamwork, to build the foundation of Squad - While adding their own ideas, twists and turns to give Squad its own identity, to make it Squad(What a spiritual successor is)

 

Only time will tell,  I'm curious how 1.0 will look like.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Nostalgia is a funny thing you know. Honestly, you can never go back in time as much as we'd like to. All of you should just live in the present and simply enjoy the current iteration of the game you perceive that you think you want in realtime. This particular game will never replace your concept of the PR replacement you desire any more than it will replace the Delta Force: Joint Operations game that I want in my mind this game to be. That said, evolving Squad into something that grows the community is most likely a positive attribute and shouldn't be viewed so harshly.

You asked for specific mentions and I gave you that :) Now you as always trying to twist it into your own world picture.

Truth is - this is how it was advertised to backers, but what if they said it's going to be much more arcadey version right off the start? Probably wouldn't raise enough on kickstarter. But who knows.

1 hour ago, Dubs said:

OWI is simply using their experience from helping develop Project Reality, the good and bad, while taking inspiration from the formula of Project Reality that creates an environment that emphasizes communication and teamwork, to build the foundation of Squad - While adding their own ideas, twists and turns to give Squad its own identity, to make it Squad(What a spiritual successor is)

Clearly that is not working hence the never ending threads like this one.

 

Edited by rincewind

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1 hour ago, Phoenixstorm said:

Only time will tell,  I'm curious how 1.0 will look like.

Indeed, 1.0 will be interesting, even then post 1.0 will be quite interesting too, as further plans for additional content/features are planned for years after 1.0.

32 minutes ago, rincewind said:

Clearly that is not working hence the never ending threads like this one.

It's the same with any game under development, some prefer previous builds to others, and some prefer a differing direction to others. Constant changes happen as that's the nature of development, and you won't please everyone. Sometimes it's unavoidable, as systems and features are added in their infancy and fleshed out over time, or experimental things are added to test - which causes different reactions because everyone has their likes and dislikes.

 

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Phoenixstorm c'mon now, honestly you're grown up enough to realize that nothing on Kickstarter is a "promise", only a nebulous concept of something that might be. That said, stepping back for a second let's analyze this timeline for a minute. So PR was a Mod of a popular EA game that had features and attributes the core game didn't have right? That main feature of PR being AAS game mode which was directly stolen from Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising from 2004. That's a fact, John Garcia and Joel Taubel of Novalogic created AAS mode not anyone on the PR team.

 

Again, that main AAS mode is what initially compelled me (most likely other JO players as well) to buy Squad when it first came out on Steam and nothing more so I had none of the expectations that you and your brethren had.

 

Considering all that, the irony here is because this game never ever had a vertical slice and instead has been programmed by adding content and features based on public input over nearly four years now one could argue that its evolved into something greater than an ersatz PR could ever be.

 

Now if in the beginning this team had said "we are going to reverse engineer PR and build you the public an exact clone" I'd say you might have a leg to stand on but they never said that did they?

 

You should just enjoy the game we do have and the experiences with your friends and new players as well instead of living in the past.

 

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

You should just enjoy the game we do have and the experiences with your friends and new players as well instead of living in the past.

 

I would really like to do that, just 10 min ago we played a round that was very frustrating because we lost everything but the last flag, and we reinforced the last flag (bunker) and then the game started to be fun again. But the fun got interrupted by 12 tickets left and after 2 min round was over :/ 

The game ended around ~30min out of 2h max possible, at least an increased ticket pool would be appreciated.

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