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On 5/22/2019 at 10:45 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

Please I'll remind you just a few short months ago you made these statements here on the forum so its really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you're also very disrespectful recommending people don't play the game because their opinions differ from yours.

 

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You got a good point however, I would prefer your comment in a more friendly tone. I would like to see more PR maps and design changes as well (especially for mortar/ breacher role and logistics) but I wouldn't  call them "incompetent and cowardly" because that didn't improve the discussion in any way and at the end of the day you would have more ground to stand on if you pay other some respect.

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I don't know why people care so much about NOT having women in. It may not be realistic per se, but it's also likely most wouldn't use it. It could be argued that a little bit of allowance for player preference etc. would actually be a nice bit of PR and a nice gesture that would basically have minimal effects on almost all players, but might make a few feel good. What's to argue against, really? Other than the dribbling gamergate incel types who'd argue against this regardless of any case mad based on odd spite alone. It would be weird to see all women soliders in the game, yes, but I simply don't think that's likely to be the outcome. Even having female models only available where it could vaguely be possible would simply be a step for some and against none.

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8 hours ago, Hotpokkaminny said:

100 KIA is about 1.5% of the total US KIA in the Middle East post 2000

if we're talking actual in the trenches, shooting and getting shot at on a regular basis, going out on patrol and offensive operations (i.e. the roles that are present in Squad) it would be extremely uncommon to see any females, you yourself admit women mostly work in support roles

maybe (big maybe) you'd see a female combat medic on patrol in a relatively safe area

that being said it would be cool if we could find a way to have these support roles represented in the game somehow, either through NPCs in main base or VAs for commander abilities

Woman were in patrols & major operations, wasn't extremely uncommon to see female combat medics or females apart of air/gun crew, as well as having female culture support there too. Just because you're not apart of an Infantry or armored unit(combat roles), doesn't mean you're not in the shit storm. Supply/logistics,  Air/gun crew, culture support etc regularly came under fire by small arms, rpg's and had IED threats regularly - because they were out of the wire, doing what they were required to do. There's no static frontline when fighting Insurgencies, the frontline is everywhere & anywhere.

Here's a short read of a few scenario's the media & news sources went nuts about, that involved woman. There's more stories like this out there. 
https://taskandpurpose.com/6-women-who-fought-in-direct-combat-in-iraq-and-afghanistan

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Just noticed the silly business far above, have cleaned this thread of inappropriate remarks. 

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On 5/22/2019 at 10:45 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

Please I'll remind you just a few short months ago you made these statements here on the forum so its really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you're also very disrespectful recommending people don't play the game because their opinions differ from yours.

 

 

 

Not sorry, I am 100% against female soldier models in this game, lets not turn this into Call of Duty and the new Battlefields. Show me one video of heavy combat footage with terrain like Korengal having OPs, COPs, etc manned by women. Just so many reasons to not do this, especially when they add female voices to any game. Just gives someone something to spam over and over again just because its a different voice and a woman. People would use it to troll and nag, I don't want to hear attack orders coming out of it. Not being yelled, just lets not do this. For the sake of PLAY THE GAME.

 

To address the red quoted parts of what that guy said "devs need to stop wasting time making forest pixel hunts" that is exactly what using camouflage is. You see some suspicious dot moving through gaps in the bush branches its probably an enemy using camouflage. I cant stand you people who hate woodland/jungle/vegetation maps, both for development of the games and the map votes for those maps. Desert terrain is like the easiest difficulty for terrain if you were to push "Easy, Medium, Hard" modes for skills needed to survive. The people who don't like woodland maps are the ones who don't know how to use camouflage and communicate to prevent friendlies from compromising another persons occupied camouflage. This ruins it for the what is now minority of players who have been playing Project Reality and Squad partially for this reason, to use camouflage on those maps. But now since the Call Of Duty community found Squad after years of repetitive programming of "spawn, sprint, don't think, rush, don't take cover, die.. RAGE ABOUT CAMPERS"

 

Those types of people coming from Call Of Duty who switched over to Battlefield once BF:V was done catering to the COD players, then those same players come to Squad and want to ruin it. I will not have this on a game I paid for that did not have it in the first place. It is YOU Call Of Duty players and CS:GO players, Rainbow 6 siege players who need to adapt to OUR play style... Squads play style, if you don't understand what that is play Project Reality, you are more likely to find me there than Squad. Watch my Squad v12 and Project Reality 1.5 teamwork playlist and read my tips to learn how to survive and adapt from your style of un-skill related playing of video games. Rainbow 6, COD, CS:GO make me sick to think that American kids play those games for years and practice implementing no skills that could be done with their body.... Did nobody play hide and seek outside in the woods as a child? Never practiced using camouflage?

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Grump/Gump.45 said:

Not sorry, I am 100% against female soldier models in this game, lets not turn this into Call of Duty and the new Battlefields. Show me one video of heavy combat footage with terrain like Korengal having OPs, COPs, etc manned by women. Just so many reasons to not do this, especially when they add female voices to any game. Just gives someone something to spam over and over again just because its a different voice and a woman. People would use it to troll and nag, I don't want to hear attack orders coming out of it. Not being yelled, just lets not do this. For the sake of PLAY THE GAME.

 

To address the red quoted parts of what that guy said "devs need to stop wasting time making forest pixel hunts" that is exactly what using camouflage is. You see some suspicious dot moving through gaps in the bush branches its probably an enemy using camouflage. I cant stand you people who hate woodland/jungle/vegetation maps, both for development of the games and the map votes for those maps. Desert terrain is like the easiest difficulty for terrain if you were to push "Easy, Medium, Hard" modes for skills needed to survive. The people who don't like woodland maps are the ones who don't know how to use camouflage and communicate to prevent friendlies from compromising another persons occupied camouflage. This ruins it for the what is now minority of players who have been playing Project Reality and Squad partially for this reason, to use camouflage on those maps. But now since the Call Of Duty community found Squad after years of repetitive programming of "spawn, sprint, don't think, rush, don't take cover, die.. RAGE ABOUT CAMPERS"

 

Those types of people coming from Call Of Duty who switched over to Battlefield once BF:V was done catering to the COD players, then those same players come to Squad and want to ruin it. I will not have this on a game I paid for that did not have it in the first place. It is YOU Call Of Duty players and CS:GO players, Rainbow 6 siege players who need to adapt to OUR play style... Squads play style, if you don't understand what that is play Project Reality, you are more likely to find me there than Squad. Watch my Squad v12 and Project Reality 1.5 teamwork playlist and read my tips to learn how to survive and adapt from your style of un-skill related playing of video games. Rainbow 6, COD, CS:GO make me sick to think that American kids play those games for years and practice implementing no skills that could be done with their body.... Did nobody play hide and seek outside in the woods as a child? Never practiced using camouflage?

 

 

Then you did not watch the Kurdish woman and girls fighting agains Daesh in Iraq.

I am as well as many of you against adding women in game however i am also against you guys saying the woman are incompetent in war fighting.     

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Just now, Bahrein said:

Then you did not watch the Kurdish woman and girls fighting agains Daesh in Iraq.

I am as well as many of you against adding women in game however i am also against you guys saying the woman are incompetent in war fighting.     

We don't have those factions, not the Kurdish women and the other girls fighting Daesh. We don't have those factions and those women are more likely to see combat and get shot at on a daily basis than US female personnel... along with the fact those groups the women fight for are in need of actual fighters, whose job is to fight primarily until their second hand skills are needed like engineering. They have small groups of a small faction, its beautiful when these groups have women with them surviving long enough to do their jobs as medics. Ive seen footage of these women fighting, drawing fire and shooting back. That's what war is for the individual and I am proud everytime I see a woman doing a mans job..... But not in Squad... Maybe if we add those factions because those KURDISH fighters have a high percentage of female fighters. Female infantry. I don't care if the USMC has like 5 infantry women, I don't care if US Army has woman getting shot at doing logistics'. I hope they are OK.... BUT I don't give enough of a significant crap to put them in Squad.

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16 hours ago, Grump/Gump.45 said:

Not sorry, I am 100% against female soldier models in this game, lets not turn this into Call of Duty and the new Battlefields. Show me one video of heavy combat footage with terrain like Korengal having OPs, COPs, etc manned by women. Just so many reasons to not do this, especially when they add female voices to any game. Just gives someone something to spam over and over again just because its a different voice and a woman. People would use it to troll and nag, I don't want to hear attack orders coming out of it. Not being yelled, just lets not do this. For the sake of PLAY THE GAME.

 

To address the red quoted parts of what that guy said "devs need to stop wasting time making forest pixel hunts" that is exactly what using camouflage is. You see some suspicious dot moving through gaps in the bush branches its probably an enemy using camouflage. I cant stand you people who hate woodland/jungle/vegetation maps, both for development of the games and the map votes for those maps. Desert terrain is like the easiest difficulty for terrain if you were to push "Easy, Medium, Hard" modes for skills needed to survive. The people who don't like woodland maps are the ones who don't know how to use camouflage and communicate to prevent friendlies from compromising another persons occupied camouflage. This ruins it for the what is now minority of players who have been playing Project Reality and Squad partially for this reason, to use camouflage on those maps. But now since the Call Of Duty community found Squad after years of repetitive programming of "spawn, sprint, don't think, rush, don't take cover, die.. RAGE ABOUT CAMPERS"

 

Those types of people coming from Call Of Duty who switched over to Battlefield once BF:V was done catering to the COD players, then those same players come to Squad and want to ruin it. I will not have this on a game I paid for that did not have it in the first place. It is YOU Call Of Duty players and CS:GO players, Rainbow 6 siege players who need to adapt to OUR play style... Squads play style, if you don't understand what that is play Project Reality, you are more likely to find me there than Squad. Watch my Squad v12 and Project Reality 1.5 teamwork playlist and read my tips to learn how to survive and adapt from your style of un-skill related playing of video games. Rainbow 6, COD, CS:GO make me sick to think that American kids play those games for years and practice implementing no skills that could be done with their body.... Did nobody play hide and seek outside in the woods as a child? Never practiced using camouflage?

 

 

Female character models and random voice overs are not on the planned list of things to add. This thread has more so swayed towards just random discussion between gameplay and reality when it comes to the thread topic.

Females being outside the wire and in combat is not some made up COD or BF type thing, it's a reality that has been getting more and more real every year for militaries across the globe. I've witnessed it progress over the 10 years I've been in service. Not only from my own nation, but from other nations doing joint operations on deployment or for training exercises. 

Also, I understand you're passionate about Squad, but discussion can be had with out finger pointing and name calling, things like this have a snowball effect which usually leads to flame wars, which is what we don't want on these forums.
 

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What would it hurt to have an optional USA Medic loadout option with a female character? Or perhaps when choppers go live a pilot/co-pilot role with a female avatar. Who exactly is going to be negatively impacted? I dare anyone to give me a single legitimate reason why this wouldn't be authentic and not just your "gut" feeling.

 

With Insurgency: Sandstorm the inclusion of female characters was absolutely horrible with atrocious models paired with ridiculous shout outs and whiny screaming but I'm sure this team could tastefully implement a good model that female players could identify with and possibly grow the community.

 

Give me one downside, just one...

 

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On 22/05/2019 at 2:08 AM, Good-Try Greg said:

The SDF do far more front line fighting in the middle east than the US military does

Ahaha SDF is just a watered down name to not piss the Turks off. It's the Kurdish YPJ and Kurdish PKK with the female fighters on the frontlines in the Middle East.

The only way I would support women being implented into the game is through making a Kurdish faction and thus including them, the Kurdish YPG/YPJ/PKK/Peshmerga are the only ones in the Middle East who genuinely use women fighters, but Squad will never add this due to the political backlash especially with the Turks who consider them 'terrorists'

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Just let a mod add females, why waste dev time with something so niche. I'm all for having a smaller hitbox but I'd rather have helicopters and 50v50.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

What would it hurt to have an optional USA Medic loadout option with a female character? Or perhaps when choppers go live a pilot/co-pilot role with a female avatar. Who exactly is going to be negatively impacted? I dare anyone to give me a single legitimate reason why this wouldn't be authentic and not just your "gut" feeling.

 

With Insurgency: Sandstorm the inclusion of female characters was absolutely horrible with atrocious models paired with ridiculous shout outs and whiny screaming but I'm sure this team could tastefully implement a good model that female players could identify with and possibly grow the community.

 

Give me one downside, just one...

 

I just don't want it that is one reason.... Who are you to decide what is a "legitimate reason", give YOU one legitimate reason that you set the standard of its legitimacy. I wont give you the time of day, I don't need a legitimate reason not to, even if I give you one you say its not good enough. Now that I say this you will probably correct your SJW subjective type of behavior telling someone to give you their legitimate reason to not do this, which like I said would not fit your standard of a legitimate reason.. Having female models just to fill for a minority demographic is dumb, just having  female models in Squad, Project Reality where you are assigned your specific gear for a kit... The US Army I can assure you have infantry units petition without discrimination reasons cited for legal purposes to remove certain females from units or transfer themselves out of the unit. Women rip units apart that formed brotherhoods, part of how good leaders get sent away.. This is just like the "good idea" club I heard about from every vet I know who says don't join, good idea club from generals talking about mostly unknown things making bad decisions that just create annoying hassles of existence on top of every possible problem it could bring. The problem doesn't have to be big, I don't want to shut my guys up in the chopper because of pilots breasts under pilot gear while I brief them with survival orders and job.

 

 

Its not a gut feeling of something will happen. Its something I don't even want to hear or have implied whether she talks or not. Focus on what Squad is. Flag attack/defense, building, long range combat simulation transitioning to close combat. Its not rocket science. Nothing about character models need to grow with the community, why should we have it? Just because a small vocal portion of the player base says they want it? Then you ride off the silence or people not caring, people not knowing this is a thing with you needy COD, CS:GO, Rainbow 6, other FPS type players. I heard this is how the Army(whole military) actually got messed up, "leaders" from West Point apart of the "good idea" club. Like where stupid needless decisions that have little impact are implemented just to satisfy a certain demographic of people.

 

I don't even want to hear jokes about woman in game. Like im all for freedom of speech and everything, but the fact this forum wasn't closed off by the admins tells me they are on to the idea. A small vocal minority like you will repeat yourselves over this issue everywhere to make it seem like its larger demographic that people will falsely report to developers in many ways "people want female models in game".... Just no, this is what happened to Battlefield 5, no reason to do this. Funny thing is my response here will probably get blocked like many others im sure had legitimate reasons not to. Sorry, but the rules of the forum with "blocking" certain comments against things just tells me the SJW behavior will infiltrate under other pretenses of development, then you will hear this in a development team meeting or piece of paper for "things people want" just slid in there. Once it comes up on that paper in the meeting instead of SHUTTING it down, the facilitator of the meeting will "push it aside for later"... BOOM the minority falsely implanted their stupid wants under the nose of the majority. That's why we aren't doing this.

 

The Army lowered its fitness standards not just for women, but for all those weaker less manly men who have the physical capability to get strong, but not the mental capability to push past the pain.... Is this what we want Squad to become? Where a minority of infiltrating leaders who want their ideas implemented for the small minority that cant get "full enjoyment" out of the game? Female models would not draw new people to the game, you come to Squad and PR for gameplay, not the character models. I don't want any snowball of this rolling and getting bigger. When I see a suggestion that wants to make game play more arcade like... I have seen suggestions that said people wanted 20 minute rounds instead of 45-60 minute rounds... That's what PR was and what would the point of building be? I want 2 hour rounds, which sometimes drag out in Project Reality like that and its fun. Every map has a fun spot in edge of cap to build on and fight, I could change maps if I wanted to... But I'm fighting, but because people get so impatient or try fighting like a COD, Battlefield player instead of a Project Reality player with camouflage, teamwork, firing and moving away from their tracers, shooting through bushes they don't like coming to attack while they keep losing tickets slowly by deaths. So we have to cater to them? Just gives them more time to try something new, or maybe they just mindlessly run at objectives the same way without thinking to try something new and taking time to set it up.

Edited by Grump/Gump.45

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I always hate when this topic comes up in any FPS games that I play -- and it inevitably does. I'm actually surprised it took this long to come up in Squad. It can be so divisive to the community as it eventually turns political.

 

I am generally against putting female characters in the game for my own reasons (which I won't get into - lest I be labeled as an 'incel').

 

That being said, my thoughts toward those who are always clamoring for women in military FPS shooters has been -- "why make such an issue of it? It is a FPS. You can't see yourself anyway. And if the gameplay & mechanics are fun, what does it matter?"

 

So...using my own logic on MYSELF, I will say...if the devs chose to make all of the character models women, I would still play the game. I like the mechanics & gameplay. I just can't see myself getting too upset over any of it. It is just a video game...a video game that I enjoy playing quite a bit...so I couldn't let the gender of the character model change that for me.

 

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We have different races in the US side but not for the UK. Why? What different races would be available for the female role if they were to do them? I am sure that most modern thinking individuals appreciate the contribution women bring to present day armies but including character model for every conceivable combination for the sake of inclusivity based on their numerical proportion is a detraction for the devs when they can be directing their efforts where most paying customers would prefer.

 

When I hear a female voice over voip playing Squad I am not interested in their character model reflecting their race/gender and more about if the squad is treating them different to any other team member. So far I have seen/heard zero issues.

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Only problem I'm seeing with things like female character models and such is representation. Sure there are cases of frontline troops including women. But these are so limited that having more than 1 female in an entire match would already overrepresent females in combat roles in real life. Speaking of a percentage base that is. Same reason female combatants in battlefield V was disliked for a part.

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"But muh realism!"  - Incels

 

Honestly, who cares.  If the female soldier had a smaller hitbox, I'd be rolling trans all day.  It would be nice to have a female char for the 1 in ~1000 squad players that are actually female, but as other have said, from a resources stand-point it doesn't make sense at this point to dedicate them to this, probably best left to modders. :\

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8 hours ago, liamNL said:

Only problem I'm seeing with things like female character models and such is representation. Sure there are cases of frontline troops including women. But these are so limited that having more than 1 female in an entire match would already overrepresent females in combat roles in real life. Speaking of a percentage base that is. Same reason female combatants in battlefield V was disliked for a part.

The issue with BF5 was, in WW2 there were over a million females that served within the allied forces, mainly in behind the wire in mechanical, hospital, Intel and some airforce roles. Aside from some who were on the front lines or the few who acted as combat pilots. Then there were special units like the USMC Woman reserve units created as a precaution(which never really saw combat & where disbanded at the end of WW2) when man power was declining due to the casualty rates of the prolonged war. As you said it was over-represented in BF5 of how much actively engaged on the front lines in WW2 in the BF5 game, throw in bionic arms and you have a big BF5 controversy lol 

I think people in this day & age just aren't aware of how much females have actively engaged in combat in the past 20 years, the number is far lower than the amount of males of course, but it's a lot more than people think. I guess it comes down to media coverage, where the only time females in combat get a spotlight is when something extraordinary happens, medals are awarded or if they get killed and their home town does a story on it.

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I see no harm in having female characters in squad as long as they are allocated at random at a real world % level, the same goes for race, colour and gender, adding all that sh!t should keep the devs busy for several years B|. I'd prefer that the Devs sort out the other various issues first but most of all GIVE US Territory Control game mode.

 

If the game is to go down the 'individual character' route can we have a short arsed and a tall lanky versions of the said above. Short guy can't run as fast as tall guy but tall guy takes longer to get in cover / vehicles etc. :)  

 

 

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