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Laki

Squadleading in v13 and other random feedback

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Hello, I played v12 intensively when it was released, but when v13 released I had not played squad in some time. Back in v12 (and in PR a long time ago :D) I usually ended up squad leading because there are not a lot of people who want to be a squad leader. I'am not an amazing squad leader but I managed to have a good time in public servers with random people. Firing the game up again after v13 update I'am a bit rusty, but it seems something has changed quite radically. I feel like the tempo of the game is a LOT faster than I remember and this is really making playing as a squad leader much more of a chore and not as rewarding. Don't know how much of the faster tempo is about the faster movement speed, surge of new players and how much is just that the meta is getting more refined. What I mean by the meta is that most games play very similarly, FOBs get placed on the "best" spots most games and every game starts out with a huge rush to block caps and to take over the "best" spots to mess up enemy movement.

 

From my limited experience with v13 this far I feel like the gameplay took a step in the wrong direction. 

 

1.) Faster movement speed seems to make players run around the map instead of having SL's manage transporting. I absolutely loved when I managed to get an APC squad come pick my squad up and ferry us towards the next point and help us push. And I remember my squaddies were truly happy when they got a ride cause they know that the trip would have taken ages without the teamwork and coordination.

 

2.) The slower feeling gameplay from before gave me as squad leader time to figure out enemy movement and more time to organise my squad. I think this is the biggest problem I have with the game at this state, faster gameplay makes life of SL way more hectic and much less enjoyable. This I feel is the reason why a lot of people don't want to be SL.

 

3.) Buddy rally makes it really hard to keep track of the enemy. Back in v12 when you managed to wipe a squad it felt really good and gave your team some time to advance while the wiped squad had to reorganise. Now it feels like getting a full squad to almost anywhere on the map with a buddy rally is way too easy. I say get rid of buddy rally and if you really wanna keep it make the spawn timer way higher than regular rally. Something like 3min from dropping the rally to first spawn.

 

4.) A lot of times as squad leader if I find that my squad is out of position I wonder if it would be better to just suicide and buddy rally. I have not tried this yet but since It has crossed my mind I bet some people are using this as a tactic.

 

5.) I believe giving more players optics is also a step in the wrong direction as now more firefights are shorter.  I really love the suppression mechanics and hope that in the future we can again have longer lasting firefights with lower accuracy and more emphasis on suppression. Iron sights forced players to shoot at the enemy without having the perfect shot lined up.

 

6.) HAB's in my opinion could do with some tweaks to gameplay. I think they should either get disabled from further away or have a kind of suppression mechanic. For example having bullets pass a HAB from certain distance adds more time to respawn timer or stops the timer for a small duration let's say 3s (different weapons could have different timers), this effect cloud be reapplied every 2s. So a fob under constant suppression cloud not spawn in troops. This would give attackers a chance to disable a from a distance at the cost of ammo.

 

7.) I think removing the ability to kill players to a "dead" state by killing them multiple times in a time window has made taking risks and dying less of a penalty. To work properly a player in squad need the have a little fear for dying. This could be further enhanced with a cumulative penalty to spawn timer, so the more you die or give up the more time it takes to respawn. If I remember correctly this was a feature in PR.

 

8.) Removal of map pinging all ogreatly hinders the squad leaders ability to actually lead the squad. Now marking enemys on the map takes way too much time and effort. Most of the times I just don't have the time to hunt for the right grid to actually mark the enemy. One solution could be giving SL's an option to add a radius to enemy markers.

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12 hours ago, Laki said:

Hello, I played v12 intensively when it was released, but when v13 released I had not played squad in some time. Back in v12 (and in PR a long time ago :D) I usually ended up squad leading because there are not a lot of people who want to be a squad leader. I'am not an amazing squad leader but I managed to have a good time in public servers with random people. Firing the game up again after v13 update I'am a bit rusty, but it seems something has changed quite radically. I feel like the tempo of the game is a LOT faster than I remember and this is really making playing as a squad leader much more of a chore and not as rewarding. Don't know how much of the faster tempo is about the faster movement speed, surge of new players and how much is just that the meta is getting more refined. What I mean by the meta is that most games play very similarly, FOBs get placed on the "best" spots most games and every game starts out with a huge rush to block caps and to take over the "best" spots to mess up enemy movement.

Wow Mate...

 

I feel you hit a nail on the head. I think exactly the way you do except maybe for 5 and 6.

12 hours ago, Laki said:

5.) I believe giving more players optics is also a step in the wrong direction as now more firefights are shorter.  I really love the suppression mechanics and hope that in the future we can again have longer lasting firefights with lower accuracy and more emphasis on suppression. Iron sights forced players to shoot at the enemy without having the perfect shot lined up.

 

6.) HAB's in my opinion could do with some tweaks to gameplay. I think they should either get disabled from further away or have a kind of suppression mechanic. For example having bullets pass a HAB from certain distance adds more time to respawn timer or stops the timer for a small duration let's say 3s (different weapons could have different timers), this effect cloud be reapplied every 2s. So a fob under constant suppression cloud not spawn in troops. This would give attackers a chance to disable a from a distance at the cost of ammo.

I do believe that habs should be disabled a bit easier.

 

Don´t get me wrong. I really like V13, but it was like one step forward (engineers, c4, located damage, etc.) and a step backwards (faster gameplay, Buddy rally, speed feels too much, no insta death).

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3 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Wow Mate...

 

I feel you hit a nail on the head. I think exactly the way you do except maybe for 5 and 6.

I do believe that habs should be disabled a bit easier.

 

Don´t get me wrong. I really like V13, but it was like one step forward (engineers, c4, located damage, etc.) and a step backwards (faster gameplay, Buddy rally, speed feels too much, no insta death).

+1

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1 Agreed

2 Agreed

3 Nailed.

4 They do.

5 Disagreed, suppressing still strong and you can't hit shit while being suppressed even with an optic unless it's less than 15m

6 Disagreed, just increase the block radius slightly.

7 Agreed.

8 Disagreed, 90% of the time a didn't notice the initial ping and on top. Now it's promoting proper communication again.

 

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1. No, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever, since the increased speed wears off quickly, as your stamina depletes. The less stamina you have the slower you sprint. However it makes it is useful when you quickly need to get into cover. Sprinting and its speed is fine.

 

2. And how is the gameplay faster? By that 10% speed increase for like few meters? Squad is still pretty slow paced, and in CQB speed and aggression always dominates. So yeah.

 

3. Whatever, doesn't make that big of a difference, I'm fine with it and I'm also fine if they remove it. 

 

4. Its not. HABs are still a thing. Unless your team sucks you have a HAB at an ideal position for attacking or defending.

 

5. Doesn't make any difference at all. Irons were still pretty accurate until 200m, now bad players will suck with an ACOG instead of an iron/red dot. Weapon accuracy is also fine, just look up how accurate modern standard issue rifles are. They are more accurate than WW2 sniper rifles. Suppression sucks and rewards players for spraying and praying instead of aiming. If you know the enemy is behind cover and you hold that cover, if he peeks shoot him, instead of "suppressing" him.

 

6. The meta with that was press tab after being revived for time, wait 60seconds, move on. Adding back this feature won't make any significant difference, so whatever. 

 

8. Refer back to point 2 or "Git Gud"

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Posted (edited)

I agree with your remarks and the problems of V13, but I think your solutions are not adequate.

the speed change the gameplay of SL, and players.
strategies are less advanced, and people are rushing everywhere.
I also noticed that on the maps where only the first flag is seen, the SLs put random FOBs, and this is found to defend their useless FOB, and nobody attacks the flag, lack of knowledge of the game.
And more ....

Edited by infamousplayer

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I was going to reply to specific points of your messege, and then I got to the end of it and decided not to do it.

1 hour ago, Font said:

8. Refer back to point 2 or "Git Gud"

...

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1.) I like the movement speed increase.

 

2.) Squad leads have too much on their plates, and more is pushed on them every version. This makes it difficult for veteran SLs and impossible for newbies. In older versions it was much easier to find time to bounce ideas and such off of other SLs in command chat. Now it's hard to find the time to breathe.

 

3.) Buddy rally is game breaking with the current wave spawn mechanic. There's no limit to how many plays can magically teleport across the map.

 

4.) I absolutely do kill myself to pop rally's. This patch feels the most arcadey.

 

5.) This is just a preference thing I guess, I still only use irons or red dots.

 

6.) HABs could be tweaked but I like the current state of them.

 

7.) I hate the new no dead-dead state. Vehicles pretty much cannot prevent a LAT from getting a shot off.

 

8.)Pings were gross, I'm glad they're gone.

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On 5/13/2019 at 4:09 PM, Sparcany said:

1.) I like the movement speed increase.

 

2.) Squad leads have too much on their plates, and more is pushed on them every version. This makes it difficult for veteran SLs and impossible for newbies. In older versions it was much easier to find time to bounce ideas and such off of other SLs in command chat. Now it's hard to find the time to breathe.

 

3.) Buddy rally is game breaking with the current wave spawn mechanic. There's no limit to how many plays can magically teleport across the map.

 

4.) I absolutely do kill myself to pop rally's. This patch feels the most arcadey.

 

5.) This is just a preference thing I guess, I still only use irons or red dots.

 

6.) HABs could be tweaked but I like the current state of them.

 

7.) I hate the new no dead-dead state. Vehicles pretty much cannot prevent a LAT from getting a shot off.

 

8.)Pings were gross, I'm glad they're gone.

I bought the game when v13 was released and I have to say, I don’t have a problem with the game at all. I mean sure the sprinting is still sluggish and there are other things taking me out of the realism but none of the points OP raises make sense to me.

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2 hours ago, Squadtherevolution said:

I bought the game when v13 was released and I have to say, I don’t have a problem with the game at all. I mean sure the sprinting is still sluggish and there are other things taking me out of the realism but none of the points OP raises make sense to me.

The game is in a good place right now overall. I only really have two bones to pick with V13; the penalty for dying is too low and buddy rallies are hilariously unrefined.

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On 5/13/2019 at 8:49 PM, Font said:

1. No, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever, since the increased speed wears off quickly, as your stamina depletes. The less stamina you have the slower you sprint. However it makes it is useful when you quickly need to get into cover. Sprinting and its speed is fine.

What I liked about the old slower speed was that it kinda forced you to communicate with your squad. Want to cross that street? ask someone to cover and cover them while they move. Want to advance to a known enemy position? Better get your squad to suppress them so you can make it there alive.

Quote

2. And how is the gameplay faster? By that 10% speed increase for like few meters? Squad is still pretty slow paced, and in CQB speed and aggression always dominates. So yeah.

It's not so much about CQB combat speed (it is a bit of that also) than the "larger picture "tactical"" gameplay that I'am worried about. I hope that squad stays as a game that rewards team play, planning and taking it slow, as almost every other shooter out there is mostly focused on individual skill and speed. 

 

Quote

4. Its not. HABs are still a thing. Unless your team sucks you have a HAB at an ideal position for attacking or defending.

The difference here is that building a HAB takes way more effort than placing a rally point. Also a HAB has an element of risk involved by costing tickets if lost while rally points are free. One of the tactics that worked wonders in past versions of the games was to disrupt enemy movement to keep them from getting to your flanks. Now all it takes is two guys to get past your defence and you could have the whole enemy team behind you. In V12 those two men could only multiply to a maximum of nine.

 

A way to make buddy rally points and rally points in general more valuable to the players placing them down could be to give them a value in tickets. Rally overrun = -5 tickets, could lead to rally points begin placed into a safer, bit further away locations and making it riskier to spawn closer to the action.  Making players value their life a bit more knowing that they have to leg it back from the rally when they give up.

Quote

5. Doesn't make any difference at all. Irons were still pretty accurate until 200m, now bad players will suck with an ACOG instead of an iron/red dot. Weapon accuracy is also fine, just look up how accurate modern standard issue rifles are. They are more accurate than WW2 sniper rifles. Suppression sucks and rewards players for spraying and praying instead of aiming. If you know the enemy is behind cover and you hold that cover, if he peeks shoot him, instead of "suppressing" him.

I think weapon accuracy shouldn't be an accurate representation of reality in squad. I believe (once again :) ) that having less accuracy makes you depend more on your squamates, I you know you'll have a hard time hitting the enemy it could lead to you needing a squad mate to help even the odds a bit.

 

Not begin able to lay down accurate fire on your own has made for some of my favourite team play experiences. Guiding or having my (non-optic) fire guided by a squad mate with binocs is one of those little team play moments why I love squad and PR so much. 

Quote

6. The meta with that was press tab after being revived for time, wait 60seconds, move on. Adding back this feature won't make any significant difference, so whatever. 

Iguess this is 7.)? Having players go dead meant that having a firefight and even having only 1 or 2 players dead-dead made the squad have to actually rally, or wait for reinforcements. This made the game play a bit slower, since you could not just pull up everybody an keep running at full speed after an engagement. 

 

Also Sparcany (quote below) has a good point about how not having a dead-dead state changes gameplay. In V12 AT had two tries to get a shot off, now you can get resurrected as many times as needed, so even a downed AT players body is a number one priority target for the full duration of the engagement.

On 5/13/2019 at 11:09 PM, Sparcany said:

7.) I hate the new no dead-dead state. Vehicles pretty much cannot prevent a LAT from getting a shot off.

 

Quote

8. Refer back to point 2 or "Git Gud"

I don't really understand what this means, but I would rather have a game that makes it bit easier or more enjoyable for players to play SL than what we have now, as almost no one wants to play as SL.

 

----

I guess a lot this boils down to the way I like to play the game (with random people) and me liking gameplay mechanics that force those random people to communicate and relay on each other rather than giving any individual players the feeling that they can do it all. Having mechanics that promote gameplay that creates small (guided fire example from before) teamwork experiences as well as larger ones makes me enjoy this game and really differentiates it from other games.

Edited by Laki

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