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Over half a year later, and still noone wants to be a SL.

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Posted (edited)

Assigning individual roles directly would be problematic to an extent. It's open to abuse both by bad SLs and selfish squad members.

 

Imagine for example if i just give all the cool kits to a buddy of mine or my little brother and just have the random guys i don't know play medic each time. Or imagine you assign someone to be a medic and he just leaves and joins another squad. No problem for now, you'd kick him either way. Then, another person joins and the same thing happens. If this happens 2-3 times at the start of the match you might have to repeat your initial plans/briefing at the start of the round for each new guy.

 

Most of all, it would really screw up squad cohesion and this is one of the things that can outright wipe a squad. I'm talking about people falling behind, having no available place to spawn, or spawning at rally points without the ammo they need for the job and so on, things which are actually quite frequent due to the way most players in public matches mismanage their limited amount of transport and logistics vehicles. Squads spawning partially and spreading out over large areas is the reason why you often don't have a LAT near your location or if you have one, he has no rockets (because he just had to change from a different kit and respawn at a rally, so he doesn't have the full ammo load) when that APC is turning the corner of the street and coming your way.

 

Limiting available roles on the other hand would be perfectly fine, especially if people joining the squad could see what kits are "banned" from the particular squad before joining it. Then let them get what they want from the allowed kits on a first come, first served basis. This way, they wouldn't join the squad in the first place if they couldn't take the kit they wanted, and the SL wouldn't have to deal will all of the above problems.

 

However, there is only so much you can do to solve these issues with hard-coded game mechanics. It's more efficient if the community deals with it. Be patient, don't be a spoiled brat and listen to your SL. The way it was done in PR is that the moment a squad filled up, the SL would just blurt out "2 medics, 2 riflemen, AR, grenadier, LAT,  breacher". Squad members would call out their kits as they were selecting them to help him confirm he had what he asked for. Someone might ask "can i take a marskman/HAT instead of LAT/MG instead of AR/whatever other specialist kit" after most critical roles were filled and the SL would say yes or no depending on squad composition and the objective he had in mind. If you didn't cooperate, you got kicked from the squad. If you joined a squad just to get a kit and then dropped out of it to go lone wolf it in your 1-man sniper squad, you were reported to the server admins and kicked from the server.

Nobody complained about the strict rules, because it all worked very well and you would get good games.

Edited by Burningbeard80

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Posted (edited)

The only time I don't like to SL is when there is an SL on my team that acts like an entitled brat that yells when he doesn't get his way. For the most part this isn't a common problem, luckily, but I've encountered people that are absolute dog shit at the game yet think they are God's gift to it because they played PR.

Edited by Thr34t

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Because being a SL requires a different skillset that pretty much any other role. At least when you want to play together with your team. You will spend a lot of time working together with the other parts of the team, while you also have to manage your squad, maybe place down emplacements and also manage yourself. 

 

What I can recommend for people who are afraid of picking SL is the following.

 

1. Create a smaller Squad

It is much easier to take care of a smaller squad. I also often feel that a Squad of 4 people made out of randoms will stick together more. When you have 8 people you often have some guys not being close enough because they think: there are enough other squad members close to the SL and so I don't have to do it.

 

2. If you go full Squad use Fireteams

A simple way is to split the squad into two fireteams and ask one guy to be essentially a fireteam leader. That should also get a lot of work of your own plate.

 

3. Simple objectives

Another good way to get more experience and confidence is to pick a simple task for your squad for a round. As a example you could designate your Squad to always defend the active cap in a round. You will need way less time thinking what to do and where to go. You can focus on the actual task and coordinate with the rest of the team.

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While not afraid of being SL, I think I'm gonna try to make a smaller squad next time. I easily get overburdened and while I try my hardest to lead on, while I try my hardest to keep having fun (and I do), there are times when the amount of people spread out, the amount of requests coming in, the amount of call outs can just be too much. My last game I had two guys constantly spreading out doing their own Call of Duty TDM. I find it hard to kick people for some reason and I try to just give in and let my team do what they want to do for the sake of their own fun. So then I end up pinned down in a compound, I'm asking for at least two guys on three different points, and I'm only getting two guys on one point and the rest are either dead or across the map or extending too far. This spread only makes things harder for me and then the sapper that's literally 900m away from me is on radio while we're getting shot at telling me to mark an enemy logi 300m from his pos. I'm too passive and it sucks.  Leading is fun though, hell ye.

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SLing in Squad is hands-off by design. You can tyrannically kick people or deny vehicles but you ultimately have no leverage over anyone else as SL. Take a truck, place a FOB, place rallies. place marks. That's all you can be reasonably asked to do.

 

Like we were saying for years, Rallies should never have been permanent spawns. Rallies were what kept Squads cohesion more than anything, because the best spawn point also got everyone together in one place. Repurposing them to band-aid fix lack of spawn points has been a huge blow to squad tactics. If anyone out there in 2019 is still trying to SL in  Squad the way they would in PR I'm amazed at their perseverance.

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Well, if it was Project Reality it would be already balanced for the most part. Everything would be in the game and we wouldn't have to come up with band-aid fixes until the rest of the mechanics and units are in. Of course, a game with over a decade under its belt will have a lot more content than a new game which is 3-4 years old, so i'm not exactly complaining. We'll probably get there in time.

 

I think most people who voice concerns do it because they fear the band-aids will remain as permanent features. I hope they will not, once we get the rest of the game fleshed out.

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There's an SL tutorial out there somewhere that explains the steps needed to have a good time leading. The best tip was to outline the plan and your expectations at the start of the round. For instance, I rarely want to command vehicle support so I will explain at the outset that I'm running an infantry squad. Then anyone who requests a vehicle gets a reminder to check the name of the squad (e.g. "Pinko INF") and a kick if they continue to ask for vics. 

 

As for roles, be sure to open the squad early at round start and explain the plan and the roles required to fulfill the plan. Most players will switch to roles if they know exactly why they are needed and how they'll be taking part in the action. For instance, if you are rushing the middle objective you will probably want 2 AT, 2 medics. The reasoning may be obvious to you, but not to your squaddies. So simply explain that you expect enemy vehicles to be present and there is a high likelihood of taking fire from the outset. This is much better than simply stating "2 LAT, 2 medics; no questions" because it clarifies the players' roles and gets them excited for their piece of the action. 

 

SLing can be a fun way to practice leadership skills, as long as you actually put those skills into practice. Communicate clearly, take advice and criticism graciously, be firm but fair. You might be surprised what you can then do with a bunch of internet randos. The tools are already there to have a great time as SL, you just need to learn to use them.

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I think you're correct. It's probably more about charisma and people skills than being a master tactician (although you do need to have a grasp of tactics too). A guy with a mediocre plan that can get his squad to commit and follow it will have more success than someone who makes perfect plans but cannot get anyone to stick to them.

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21 hours ago, pinko said:

There's an SL tutorial out there somewhere that explains the steps needed to have a good time leading.

 

I've found this one to be very useful. Still, the squad members are usually my biggest hurdle. They really make or break the fun in SLing for me.

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Since i joined a clan or a team (call it how ever you like).I do not have problems like that people rotate and you will hardly see the same SL in two games in a row.

However i do understand people not wanting to SL so many frustrating moments with your own squad players and not to talk about other squad leaders.

Edited by Bahrein

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