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Garensterz

Does The Game Needs Organized Squad Branches/Hierarchy?

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Posted (edited)

Ok, title is a bit vague here. What I meant is what if Squad copies the hierarchy system in Post Scriptum? There will be exclusive slots for different types of roles such as Commander, Infantry, Logistics, and Armor/Crewman when creating a squad.

 

Example with this system:

-A commander is in charge of commanding all squad leaders in the team, he might also get a perk for off map abilities such as off map close air support or a drone strike.

 

-Infantry will be the traditional leg infantry but will only have limited access to Transport trucks, or maybe (debatable) IFV's

 

-Logistics, it's quite self explanatory, these guys only have access to logi trucks and their priority in the match is to build FOB's, Constructions, and supplying FOB's. Atleast 2 squads in a team and 4 members

 

-Armor. Obviously they have access to the toys for the big boys. Limited to 4 squads in a team and 3 to 4 members.

 

-Combat Engineers. I just think engineers are too accessible in every squad, so i think giving them an exclusive role and limiting the numbers to 2 squads and 2 to 3 members only

 

So do you think this would make the gameplay more organized where squads will actually perform as what they were suppose to do? Or will this negatively affect the traditional gameplay of Squad?

Edited by Garensterz

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Garensterz, can you elaborate why? This is somewhat missing. 

 

BTW, Commander will be implemented in future Updates. 

 

Also I agree with MeFirst, I don't see PS had great success with those changes. 

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Sorry, I would stop playing Squad if your suggestions are going through.

21 hours ago, Garensterz said:

-A commander is in charge of commanding all squad leaders in the team, he might also get a perk for off map abilities such as off map close air support or a drone strike.

 

2

Squad leaders are deciding what to do with their Squad, the commander can suggest certain thing and provide the SL's with furth details.

Offmap abilities should be limited with a 45min cooldown timer.

21 hours ago, Garensterz said:

-Infantry will be the traditional leg infantry but will only have limited access to Transport trucks, or maybe (debatable) IFV's

 

That will be addressed by the following lines.

21 hours ago, Garensterz said:

-Logistics, it's quite self explanatory, these guys only have access to logi trucks and their priority in the match is to build FOB's, Constructions, and supplying FOB's. Atleast 2 squads in a team and 4 members

4

That's the Reason why I didn't like PS at all. FOB's are something special an Attack FOB has other needs than a Defend or Mortar FOB if only 1-2 squads would be able to Build and Maintain the FOB that would end in a disaster. On top, you need more than 4 guys if you want effective use of the assets and running supplies.

Not to mention the Logi driver often gets shot out and if the normal infantry isn't able to move or save their logi's that would end pretty horrible.

21 hours ago, Garensterz said:

-Armor. Obviously they have access to the toys for the big boys. Limited to 4 squads in a team and 3 to 4 members.

2

Sometimes there are more than 4 Vehicles and on Top that would eliminate the possibility of being able to play as a MECH INF Squad.

21 hours ago, Garensterz said:

-Combat Engineers. I just think engineers are too accessible in every squad, so i think giving them an exclusive role and limiting the numbers to 2 squads and 2 to 3 members onlySor

4

There are already limited to 2/3 per team, what are you talking about?

 

TL'TR

Besides the off-map suggestion, there is a big NONO from me.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Phoenixstorm said:

Sorry, I would stop playing Squad if your suggestions are going through.

Squad leaders are deciding what to do with their Squad, the commander can suggest certain thing and provide the SL's with furth details.

Offmap abilities should be limited with a 45min cooldown timer.

That's exactly what I was referring to. But 45 mins? that's too long, the match would almost end just by waiting for the next off map support. Atleast give the commander 4 to 6 times to call in off map in a match. Atleast that would make the commander class a bit fun to play as

Quote

That's the Reason why I didn't like PS at all. FOB's are something special an Attack FOB has other needs than a Defend or Mortar FOB if only 1-2 squads would be able to Build and Maintain the FOB that would end in a disaster. On top, you need more than 4 guys if you want effective use of the assets and running supplies.

Not to mention the Logi driver often gets shot out and if the normal infantry isn't able to move or save their logi's that would end pretty horrible.

I understand, 4 members might not be enough for this job to work properly. But I think 2 squads in a team would also be enough for this, if we increased squad members. As I said before, logi squads should be dedicated to do their own thing. This squad shouldn't waste time on other things other than building FOB's, Supplies, Defenses, and Mortar Support. But still, I'm open for objections.

Quote

Sometimes there are more than 4 Vehicles and on Top that would eliminate the possibility of being able to play as a MECH INF Squad.

Like I said on the Infantry section, "they can use IFV's but debatable".

Quote

There are already limited to 2/3 per team, what are you talking about?

I guess this is a bad idea, but I just don't want to see combat engineers wandering around the map alone. I wanted to see combat engineers like a small unit working together instead of lone wolfing on the map. I wanted to see them having more complicated kits such as minesweepers or drone mine sweepers and requires at least 2 to 3 members to build or dig up mines and stuff.

 

But yeah I think this suggestion is too much work, and slightly off topic so moving on.

 

In addition,

I don't want to elaborate in very specific terms (even though I was too specific on squad member counts lol) because I wanted to see how others would say about the topic, and I also wanted to know what can be changed through my suggestions.

 

Edit:

Oh shit, the website screwed up my post so I have to re edit it all over again

 
Edited by Garensterz

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I think 45 minutes is a bit to long, maybe they should have a set amount and be able to use it every 5-10 minutes, as in ins sandstorm

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1 hour ago, Garensterz said:

That's exactly what I was referring to. But 45 mins? that's too long, the match would almost end just by waiting for the next off map support. Atleast give the commander 4 to 6 times to call in off map in a match. Atleast that would make the commander class a bit fun to play as

4

Depends on how strong the off-map thing is for example if he gets a JDAM than the timer should be high.

1 hour ago, Garensterz said:

I understand, 4 members might not be enough for this job to work properly. But I think 2 squads in a team would also be enough for this, if we increased squad members. As I said before, logi squads should be dedicated to do their own thing. This squad shouldn't waste time on other things other than building FOB's, Supplies, Defenses, and Mortar Support. But still, I'm open for objections.

1

The field and problem can change within minutes having a fob nearby to react (if a tank shows up out of nowhere build a TOW; if they defence is to strong use Mortars [btw the mortars needs an overhaul too] ]etc) or a place to fall back and reinforce is often necessary. Calling the Logi Squad just to place assets that you need immediately would be tedious.

 

1 hour ago, Garensterz said:

Like I said on the Infantry section, "they can use IFV's but debatable".

 

I support the idea of less lonewolfing with vehicles but I didn't like the idea of locking them down to a 4 man squad.
 

1 hour ago, Garensterz said:

I guess this is a bad idea, but I just don't want to see combat engineers wandering around the map alone. I wanted to see combat engineers like a small unit working together instead of lone wolfing on the map. I wanted to see them having more complicated kits such as minesweepers or drone mine sweepers and requires at least 2 to 3 members to build or dig up mines and stuff.

 
1

Ah ok now I get it, but to be honest we already can create such Squads because the sapper/engineer isn't limit to 1 per Squad so a Squad can have 2/3 of them. That would be required that others didn't pick that certain role or alternate just ask them if they give your Squad that role too.

 

1 hour ago, Garensterz said:

Oh shit, the website screwed up my post so I have to re edit it all over again

9

I know that feeling.

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On 5/8/2019 at 5:25 AM, Garensterz said:

So do you think this would make the gameplay more organized where squads will actually perform as what they were suppose to do? Or will this negatively affect the traditional gameplay of Squad?

"Organized"? Leave that for the MilSim LARP'ers on their custom servers. Most casuals simply want to log on, frag and have fun.

 

Even more kit/role restrictions in the form of an imaginary platoon structure with cookie cutter slots would actually drive away even more players. Instead, it should be the exact opposite with no restrictions and all the roles unlocked so people can simply play and have fun.

 

As an SL you should be able to pick any role you want and also the other 8 roles of your squad as well depending on your tactics and strategies. This would definitely make the matches more fluid, unpredictable and organic as opposed to this static rigid fantasy platoon that somehow pretends to simulate reality.

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8 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

"Organized"? Leave that for the MilSim LARP'ers on their custom servers. Most casuals simply want to log on, frag and have fun.

 

Even more kit/role restrictions in the form of an imaginary platoon structure with cookie cutter slots would actually drive away even more players. Instead, it should be the exact opposite with no restrictions and all the roles unlocked so people can simply play and have fun.

 

As an SL you should be able to pick any role you want and also the other 8 roles of your squad as well depending on your tactics and strategies. This would definitely make the matches more fluid, unpredictable and organic as opposed to this static rigid fantasy platoon that somehow pretends to simulate reality.

I'm not trying to "pretend" to simulate reality mate. There's ARMA for that. "Fun" is a subjective term, what if it's fun for other people to role play like the ones I suggested above?

 

Yeah I also feel you, this might make the game too hardcore for newbies, but this might make the whole team to cooperate more and and focus on their roles as well.

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2 hours ago, Garensterz said:

I'm not trying to "pretend" to simulate reality mate. There's ARMA for that. "Fun" is a subjective term, what if it's fun for other people to role play like the ones I suggested above?

 

Yeah I also feel you, this might make the game too hardcore for newbies, but this might make the whole team to cooperate more and and focus on their roles as well.

Forcing compliance based on a cookie cutter structure does nothing but create ersatz cooperation.

 

 Case in point, the new game mode motivates teamwork because the limited amount of Engineers on your team need to be protected and escorted to the cache. There instead needs to be additional role based mission responsibilities like this programmed into the game modes as opposed to a fixed & rigid system is what I'm trying to say.

 

Like for example, hypothetically there could be a Destruction layer where the main bridge on Fools Road was a destruction objective that took multiple C4 charges. Something like that would promote teamwork because the only option is mission failure. Do you see what I'm saying?

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Big tough targets sounds like a nice variation in the destruction games.

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I think it's an idea with pros and cons

A better idea would be to make it optional, have more specialised SL roles that would define the squad, these specialised SL roles would be limited to 1 per team but normal infantry squads would be completely untouched

for a example a combat engineer SL could have 3 combat engineers in his squad but be limited to a squad of 5 and not be allowed LAT/marksman/grenadier etc

this would also allow snipers to be implemented in a 2 man squad, heli squads etc

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No role specific squads and definitely no commander abilities that can kill players. Clicking to a particular area on the map and then killing players in that specific areas are just annoying. If I want BS killstreaks I play CoD. I would be fine with intel based abilities, but if Helicopters are coming, then it should be player driven. Same with supply drops. Would be cool with it, but if helos are coming then supply drops should be left for them. One of the best things about Squad is that everything is done by the players, and not shitty abilities like click here and profit.

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3 minutes ago, Font said:

No role specific squads and definitely no commander abilities that can kill players. Clicking to a particular area on the map and then killing players in that specific areas are just annoying. If I want BS killstreaks I play CoD. I would be fine with intel based abilities, but if Helicopters are coming, then it should be player driven. Same with supply drops. Would be cool with it, but if helos are coming then supply drops should be left for them. One of the best things about Squad is that everything is done by the players, and not shitty abilities like click here and profit.

Pretty sure the ability for the upcoming Commander role to call in various types of airstrikes from a "tent" has been confirmed here as a thing though.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Font said:

No role specific squads and definitely no commander abilities that can kill players. Clicking to a particular area on the map and then killing players in that specific areas are just annoying. If I want BS killstreaks I play CoD. I would be fine with intel based abilities, but if Helicopters are coming, then it should be player driven. Same with supply drops. Would be cool with it, but if helos are coming then supply drops should be left for them. One of the best things about Squad is that everything is done by the players, and not shitty abilities like click here and profit.

Have you played Post Scriptum? Having those commander abilities are not that simple like you see in COD and Battlefield 4. Post Scriptum's off map abilities requires to be near functioning Forward Operating Bases. Not just that, in order to call out air strikes a commander must have a radio tent built near the FOB. Aftrer calling in an air strike there are cooldowns, and you will wait for an amount of time to call in another. 

 

Just what like Hotpokkaminny said there are pros and cons to this. I just suggested a very rough framework of what Post Scriptum implemented on their squad system, and it's up to community and especially the devs (if only they consider this) on how they can make this system work perfectly in Squad.

Edited by Garensterz

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I read very little, to be honest but the idea of a commander being able to reach out to the other squad leads and in my case more toward the inexperienced and first-time squad leads (cause the only way you get better is repeating the same thing until your good at it) to help teach them how to play as a squad lead and give them tips. Not sure how fun that would be, being the only person not engaged in direct combat but it'd be cool to see something like that. Because when it's a squad leader from another squad trying to tell you what you should or how you should do it in the middle of a frustrating round and he's got bullets whizzing past him and maybe more. Things can get a little hectic.

 

I just really wanna close that gap that players have that there will be 4-5 full squads and then a good squad and a half of unassigned players that do not want to squad lead but are actually there waiting for someone else to make the first click. That's something I really feel like would have been abolished by now but we're still here so many years later after PR and even the early access launch of Squad that we're here dealing with issues like that. I do squad lead time to time but I prefer to be a rifleman or just really someone who is contributing cause sometimes squad leading can be a little frustrating alone since sometimes if you have 2-3 guys doing what they wanna do the rest of the squad that does not know you will do what they wanna do as well unfortunately, but of course some people may say to kick those individuals but it's got to a point; Should I just kick my whole squad at this point? But other then that I like the idea but I don't like exactly any of the point and profit pointers that were mentioned that I saw.

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4 hours ago, Garensterz said:

Have you played Post Scriptum? Having those commander abilities are not that simple like you see in COD and Battlefield 4. Post Scriptum's off map abilities requires to be near functioning Forward Operating Bases. Not just that, in order to call out air strikes a commander must have a radio tent built near the FOB. Aftrer calling in an air strike there are cooldowns, and you will wait for an amount of time to call in another. 

 

Just what like Hotpokkaminny said there are pros and cons to this. I just suggested a very rough framework of what Post Scriptum implemented on their squad system, and it's up to community and especially the devs (if only they consider this) on how they can make this system work perfectly in Squad.

Yes I played PS. Airstrikes are annoying AF

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Last night we lost two of our logis just outside of our defensible position to enemy control. Logically they did not destroy them as that would give them back to us so instead they captured them. We carried out an all out assault to secure, repair, and evacuate the logis to ensure we had the ability to balance the playing field. Two Squads aggressively assaulting a fixed position succeeded in wiping out three Squads and turn the tide. You would lose out on experiences like that by dedicating squads to certain roles. Plus we can all agree that Post Scriptum has more of a Running Simulator 2019 feel than Squad does due to the lack of mobility.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/8/2019 at 9:25 PM, Garensterz said:

Ok, title is a bit vague here. What I meant is what if Squad copies the hierarchy system in Post Scriptum? There will be exclusive slots for different types of roles such as Commander, Infantry, Logistics, and Armor/Crewman when creating a squad.

 

Example with this system:

-A commander is in charge of commanding all squad leaders in the team, he might also get a perk for off map abilities such as off map close air support or a drone strike.

 

-Infantry will be the traditional leg infantry but will only have limited access to Transport trucks, or maybe (debatable) IFV's

 

-Logistics, it's quite self explanatory, these guys only have access to logi trucks and their priority in the match is to build FOB's, Constructions, and supplying FOB's. Atleast 2 squads in a team and 4 members

 

-Armor. Obviously they have access to the toys for the big boys. Limited to 4 squads in a team and 3 to 4 members.

 

-Combat Engineers. I just think engineers are too accessible in every squad, so i think giving them an exclusive role and limiting the numbers to 2 squads and 2 to 3 members only

 

So do you think this would make the gameplay more organized where squads will actually perform as what they were suppose to do? Or will this negatively affect the traditional gameplay of Squad?

it will make the game shittier imo.

already, often we reach a stand still in pub matches where people just want to join in shoot a couple of folks in the *** and disconnect in half an hour. last thing on their mind is full scale communication and driving logi's all game. truth is i probably have more fun driving goddamn LMTV in real life than in Squad. but I do feel like we need to feel some loss of resources if we cant requisition a vehicle dropped in the middle of nowhere. I suggest implementing a point system for buying vehicles.in real life, tactical assets like the bradley or armed UAVs can only be dispatched by the brigade commander or above. maybe implementing a leadership heirachy where the top leadership role can employ those assets would be cool.

 

Edited by Supreme Chairman

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1 hour ago, Supreme Chairman said:

I suggest implementing a point system for buying vehicles.in real life, tactical assets like the bradley or armed UAVs can only be dispatched by the brigade commander or above. maybe implementing a leadership heirachy where the top leadership role can employ those assets would be cool.

This one is actually far more complicated than I had suggested.

 

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The problem I see with "buying" assets is that you could buy absolutely nothing and get shrekt or you can buy too much and lose by just losing a couple of assets. And thus the entire team will be over reliant on one ****er who thinks it might be nice to have some attack choppers when the enemy has shot the previous 8 choppers out of the sky already. Or some bastard who goes command for a second, buys himself a tank and then leaves, not caring if it was the last of the teams points.

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1 hour ago, liamNL said:

The problem I see with "buying" assets is that you could buy absolutely nothing and get shrekt or you can buy too much and lose by just losing a couple of assets. And thus the entire team will be over reliant on one ****er who thinks it might be nice to have some attack choppers when the enemy has shot the previous 8 choppers out of the sky already. Or some bastard who goes command for a second, buys himself a tank and then leaves, not caring if it was the last of the teams points.

Agreed. Exactly the same narrative that embecmom has stated pretty much from the inclusion of vehicles into the game. That's why the Devs evolving the vehicle ticket costs lower and lower over time is overall actually a good thing for the game despite the Larper's protests.

 

Bottom line, it seems the only way to increase the community numbers is to decrease the complexities and make the game more accessible for average gamers which basically translates to increasing the Arcade elements in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Bottom line, it seems the only way to increase the community numbers is to decrease the complexities and make the game more accessible for average gamers which basically translates to increasing the Arcade elements in the game.

That would be sad and makes no sens for me on a marketing stand point.

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13 minutes ago, Axel said:

That would be sad and makes no sens for me on a marketing stand point.

With over a million copies sold yet daily peaks hovering around 3000 player retention would seem to be the problem not marketing. Figuring out ways to bring people back to the game would seem paramount so making it faster paced and more Arcade style seems to be the only logical solution.

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