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DorenZalupa

Bad/gamebreaking features in alpha 13

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Posted (edited)

Hello, i have more then 1000 hours in squad and after update just have to say what in my opinion very useless/gamebreaking and just bad features and of course with explanation and sorry for my english. Im big fan of this game from alpha 9, buy game without any sales to support devs.Also i play BF Project reality alot. But with all my respect to you and your work this improvements just terrifying me!

1. [runs counter to the spirit of game] SL BUDDY RALLY Gamebreaking, before that it was necessary to plan earlier where to place rally to hide from enemy and optimal distance from flag, also place rally somewhere near FLAG when defending for example, when enemy block your HAB, but you have support rally. When you attack outflanked in different way then attack HAB you have to hidden maneuver from back side and place rally safely, another words rally it's primary spawn point to attack and second priority to defend. When enemy burn rally you have fair penalty: disengaged from combat->spawn in main base->all that penality about 2 mins and reawrd for enemy who burn it, in defence they rewarded -some time off and ruin our attack from the flank for a couple minutes, as we have to spawn in attack HAB and start full-frontal attack or spawn in main base to start plan again, or walk from another HAB to start plan again and we still lose some time as penalty. NOW you just don't care!! don't care about rally at all, when your burned, you can just click to any buddy rally any other squad in any place on the map and spawn full squad..  there is no interest any more to trudge around in the woods searching rally, espexcially when searching rally was not easy, you make the way to rally by their corpses, you search and plan where they came from, just to stop attack for sometime from this side.

2.  [Gamebreaking, runs counter to the spirit of game]  "When a player is sent to incapacitated state, they will now not be put into the Insta-death state if they reach 0 HP within a certain time of being revived. Previously (Alpha 12), if an incapacitated player was revived, then sent to 0 HP within one minute of being revived, they were sent to the Death screen with no chance of reviving. In Alpha 13, players can now be revived regardless of the duration since the last revival." "goal of creating a more enjoyable experience "

What are you talking about?What kind of enjoyable experience? War is a pain!!! Not a Battlefield 5-6-7-8-9 or Call of duty !!  i'm not fan of super reality battles like in ARMA, but this is ridiculous!!! ALWAYS NEED SOME PENALTY!! Same i don't like in BF2 when you can unlimited time revive  from bloody death just with "duct tape"[email protected]! You kill enemy,then mate revive him, you came again and kill that bastard with friend, but it's ok another boy with dact tape fix them and ressurect as duct tape necromancer!! I think 1 chance to revive and insta death if he dies permamently  OPTIMAL CHOICE and we can live with that in terms of balance, not reality, like that was in alpha 12. We don't need another CAll of duty deathmatch mode, please.

3. [Gamebreaking, runs counter to the spirit of game]] Movement speed..... the guy with a huge military satchel on the back, full load with bandages,grenades or also RPG for example... He's running like a naked Usain Bolt which is three-time Olympic gold medalist.

4. LIP MOVEMENT?? JUST WHY??? WHY??? Why not spent same time to fix old bug with scopes of stationary guns, when you leave them, they keep stay in your face ...Visual side - it's looks terrible!! Gameplay side - NOTHING. an entirely unnecessary "improvent", it's just give more animation load your PC and game engine, especially when you set the purposeto bring to 100 players per server in future!!!

It's all just my opinion and i wish devs hear ME! I wish you will not go same road with battlefield EA games or stupid brainless shooters!!!

 

Little bug: Narva foliage on trees.  can't shoot through leafs on tress... Armored leafs... and old one shoot through a metal grid fense same imposible.. when it full of holes...

 

Other improvemnt like FOG of WAR, new vechicles, new recoils,  good scopes for many kits, scope perfomance improvement, and alot others VERY PROMISING!! Balance russian vechicle!! I enjoy them alot!! And again SORRY for my english, please.

Edited by DorenZalupa

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1- I AGREE

 

2- I AGREE

 

3- I AGREE

 

4-I LOVE IT!!!....Lol...well...You might not like it. But as you said, it doesn´t affect gameplay at all...so... and the time spent doing it, well...it´s already spent so nothing to do there either.

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Quote

4. LIP MOVEMENT?? JUST WHY??? WHY??? Why not spent same time to fix old bug with scopes of stationary guns, when you leave them, they keep stay in your face ...Visual side - it's looks terrible!! Gameplay side - NOTHING. an entirely unnecessary "improvent", it's just give more animation load your PC and game engine, especially when you set the purposeto bring to 100 players per server in future!!!

It's all just my opinion and i wish devs hear ME! I wish you will not go same road with battlefield EA games or stupid brainless shooters!!!

 

Don't think it's a server based call, cause doesn't change if the person is speaking english or other language, so seems to be an audio call , It looks like its a fluff piece. 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Smee said:

Don't think it's a server based call, cause doesn't change if the person is speaking english or other language, so seems to be an audio call , It looks like its a fluff piece. 

I just think it's still ragdoll face animation which translated to others from server side too, i believe any animation have perfomance hit to pc and to server and work with network code (im not super technichian or coder, just some mod work with skyrim game, sorry if I'm wrong ). And it's still looks creepy, with gameplay it's change nothing too and as visual - ugly, better throw it to basket. Im not enemy of new animations, as i can deal with dead bodies with eyes which still blinking, but such lip movement too much for me:D

Edited by DorenZalupa

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DorenZalupa said:

I just think it's still ragdoll face animation which translated to others from server side too, i believe any animation have perfomance hit to pc and to server and work with network code (im not super technichian or coder, just some mod work with skyrim game, sorry if I'm wrong ). And it's still looks creepy, with gameplay it's change nothing too and as visual - ugly, better throw it to basket. Im not enemy of new animations, as i can deal with dead bodies with eyes which still blinking, but such lip movement too much for me:D

1. why are you complaining

2 .this game and its updates have to appeal to the masses that is the players, they do not make changes based on what 1 person says

3. shut up, we dont need to see your one sided complaints

[was supposed to quote first post sry]

Edited by StonedAF

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Absolutely agree with the 3 main points, I don't know why those things went past testing phase. In fact, in the spirit of the game they should never even have made it past the drawing board but I get it why they wanted to test it. That's where it should have stopped though. I hope there will be a hotfix about this.

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1 - Agreed

2 - Agreed

3 - 10% is too much, I guess only 5 % should work just fine and maybe an additional 5% boost while suppressed cause of adrenalin rush.

4 - Nailed it!

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52 minutes ago, StonedAF said:

1. why are you complaining

2 .this game and its updates have to appeal to the masses that is the players, they do not make changes based on what 1 person says

3. shut up, we dont need to see your one sided complaints

[was supposed to quote first post sry]

He's giving feedback, that's the entire purpose of an Alpha in game development.

 

Since A13 was released and even during the test I read a lot more "complaints" about those changes than praises. If you disagree with him, please explain, don't just tell him to shut up, please.

 

As for OP I agree on every points as well, it goes against what was sold/promised in the first place.

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2 hours ago, MidnattThol said:

He's giving feedback, that's the entire purpose of an Alpha in game development.

 

Since A13 was released and even during the test I read a lot more "complaints" about those changes than praises. If you disagree with him, please explain, don't just tell him to shut up, please.

 

As for OP I agree on every points as well, it goes against what was sold/promised in the first place.

Thank you for support. I wish devs will read and im glad it's not only me with such point of view.

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agreed on 1, 2 and 3

 

as the game gets close to BETA its dangerous to have such drastic changes, especially if they are as bad as they did

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Disagree about movement speed.

10% of difference for movement speed doesn't make Olympic champ from a soldier, you are playing on emotions.

 

If we are talking about feelings, it doesn't make feel like it's too fast.

If we are talking about values, then it would be interesting to see, how fast is the movement speed in the game and compare to real life.

If we are talking about in game experience, then how much harder is it hit moving target would be interesting value to check, it feels ok for me. It doesn't make crossing maps too fast or any way of transportation useless, so I don't see negative if the changes.

 

In game mechanics, current run speed is way simplified, full load wounded in both legs mg who just ran 2km and fresh crewman with 2kg equipment has same speed.

 

Your point about moving speed lacks any facts, only feelings right now

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the movement speed in the game (running) is 20km, which is insanely fast for soldiers in full gear + stepping on bad terrain

 

20km speed is what elite runners do, but they are not carrying any extra unnecessary weight, plus wear proper shoes/clothes and are stepping on the second best possible terrain for running: asphalt

 

the stamina system is all wrong too, the timing incorrect, but I will talk about that in the future, I plan a massive feedback thread

 

imagine this guy with rifle JUST a rifle and stepping on bad terrain at this speed:

 

 

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Posted (edited)

How do you know the value? Is it peak value (the 15(?) seconds top speed... I felt like even lower in a13(?))?

 

Do you imply that A12 was 18km/h then?

 

What speed should it be in your opinion?

Edited by paragonid

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Posted (edited)

I tested on Jenses Range, sprinting 100meters, I used the own maps targets marker, a crhonometer and a calculator to know the result

the speed is 20km/h, it used to be 18km/h in A12 which was already too fast

 

IMO it shouldnt be more than it was in A12 (18km/h) but the stamina system needs tweaks/work

 

I have an idea for something more advanced (but it will require a lot of work), basically make it possible to adjust the sprinting speed, which would result in running slower, but greater distance (comfortably)... or sacrifice the distance but give full speed (18km/h), then the stamina recovery would be greatly increased, plus there would be weapon sway

 

edit: btw I was a runner, so I know what I am saying

Edited by EA_SUCKS

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Posted (edited)

This is terrible feedback. Do you even know what game-breaking means? It means you can no longer achieve the goals set by the game. It doesn't apply here because you can.

 

It's way too early to say whether the changes are good or bad. Many more matches need to be played first for this to be adequately addressed with an un-biased perspective.

With one exception: walking and sprinting speeds. Personally I welcome the new speeds, I felt like running on an escalator going the opposite direction. I'd even go as far as to increase the speed to 5.75m/sec, but that's me. I'd advise to keep the current speeds at least.

 

OPs posts are not warranted at this time. It seems he also needs to mature a bit. There's great information about text formatting out there, go find it.

Edited by Undefined

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58 minutes ago, EA_SUCKS said:

the movement speed in the game (running) is 20km, which is insanely fast for soldiers in full gear + stepping on bad terrain

 

20km speed is what elite runners do, but they are not carrying any extra unnecessary weight, plus wear proper shoes/clothes and are stepping on the second best possible terrain for running: asphalt

 

the stamina system is all wrong too, the timing incorrect, but I will talk about that in the future, I plan a massive feedback thread

 

imagine this guy with rifle JUST a rifle and stepping on bad terrain at this speed:

 

 

5.5m/s is max speed, and isn't maintained. It takes 18 seconds to cover 100m flat ground in v13 - Which is very doable for a soldier in kit - Unless we're talking full kit + big ol' ruck pack, which would be a different story. 

If we are basing this off of 100m, an elite sprinter averages around 10 seconds in a 100m sprint. That's 10m/s, Which would make it 36km/h - Now that would be insanely fast for Squad.

If we look how long it takes to actually run 1km in Squad(flat ground), with 0 stops (around 3min 37 seconds), that brings the speed down to 16.6km/h. Elite runners can complete 1000m(1km) in around 2min 20 seconds(25.7km/h)

Some tweaks are needed, acceleration and stam regen time, being the main ones IMO - I think it's a little fast right now for Squad(especially in CQB maps), but not insanely fast.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Dubs said:

Unless we're talking full kit + big ol' ruck pack, which would be a different story.

Yep. Insurgent HAT loadout is 70+ lbs.

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6 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Yep. Insurgent HAT loadout is 70+ lbs.

Average kit load for most troops is 60lbs - 70lbs, aside from specific roles which would exceed that. I myself had to lug 30kg - 45kg (66lbs - 99lbs) around, depending on the mission & time expected out of the wire. 100m in 18 seconds across flat ground is doable with 66lb kit weight, especially if adrenaline is pumping. 99lbs would be a completely different story.



 

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22 minutes ago, Dubs said:

Average kit load for most troops is 60lbs - 70lbs, aside from specific roles which would exceed that. I myself had to lug 30kg - 45kg (66lbs - 99lbs) around, depending on the mission & time expected out of the wire. 100m in 18 seconds across flat ground is doable with 66lb kit weight, especially if adrenaline is pumping. 99lbs would be a completely different story.



 

So do you think different classes should have different speeds?

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2 minutes ago, Thegreenzzz said:

So do you think different classes should have different speeds?

No, IMO that would break the squad cohesion, and this game is called squad, that would be weird if just staying with your squad was hard because you have a bigger gun. Squads cohesion is shit enough atm.

 

Only valid reason that could be implemented is if you could actually control your speed and adapt it to other players.

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Posted (edited)

Just because a Rifleman with a 27 lbs. kit could stay at the v13 speed and all the other roles were nerfed slower based on their kits instantly means that "squad cohesion" is broken? That's ridiculous. There's nothing forcing the Rifleman to sprint right? If he's ordered to stay with squad and he sprints off then you kick him. Its so simple.

 

This is the same reason that I believe all the kits should be unlocked and the squad leader should be able to build his squad based on the mission. This is just another example of trying to "baby safe" the game.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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if you were to call soldier running speeds absurdly fast, thats quite incorrect lol, in v12 you were basically a snail, now its a bit better imo because if youre in a warzone with bullets flying left and right youre not just going to run like theres no problem at all

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We'd Weight Loadout in JointOperations...More weight less Speed/movement.

 

583026-917867_20040709_001.jpg

 

OP...3-Agreed but you should've been here Pre-Alpha. We could Run like Speedy Gonzales 'andale,andale'

 

V13. At the current form its just Experimental...

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5 hours ago, Dubs said:

5.5m/s is max speed, and isn't maintained. It takes 18 seconds to cover 100m flat ground in v13 - Which is very doable for a soldier in kit - Unless we're talking full kit + big ol' ruck pack, which would be a different story. 

If we are basing this off of 100m, an elite sprinter averages around 10 seconds in a 100m sprint. That's 10m/s, Which would make it 36km/h - Now that would be insanely fast for Squad.

If we look how long it takes to actually run 1km in Squad(flat ground), with 0 stops (around 3min 37 seconds), that brings the speed down to 16.6km/h. Elite runners can complete 1000m(1km) in around 2min 20 seconds(25.7km/h)

Some tweaks are needed, acceleration and stam regen time, being the main ones IMO - I think it's a little fast right now for Squad(especially in CQB maps), but not insanely fast.  

 

 

yes, its doable, but you risk having your heart stop for making this

20km/h is not for everyone, if you are not a runner, I would not suggest even trying

 

just try it if you dont believe me, sprint 100mts in 18 seconds, then have a rest for 30 seconds (or even a minute) then try again.... you will not be able to do it twice... if you do, please record it, I want to see how long it takes you to recover your breath totally

 

10mt/s is not for runners, it is for sprinters... they run fast, but they do it only once (and its a different training from runners), they are not used to run long distances... I could run up to 25km a day (in very slow speed)... but my training was usually 10km (normal speed).... sometimes 5km (fast speed), depending on what I was doing, I did several different types of running because one professional guy was teaching me

 

I did not test to see how long it takes to run 1km in Squad yet, but assuming 3:37 like you said.... WOW thats fast...

 

just for an idea, thats what marathon runners do... where I live they are called ELITE B

 

on the race, there are 3 types of groups... ELITE A is the first group, they are the best... their timing is usually 18-21km/h

 

then there is ELITE B, which are the older professional guys, or people who cant make in elite A... they usually run 15-16km/h

 

then there is the PEOPLE, they dont run seriously or for winning, and you find all types of runners (and not runners) in there, they usually run from 6-13km/h

 

if in Squad every soldier does 3:37 the kilometer, then my theory is correct, everybody is a marathon runner ELITE B

 

on top of that, I remember before there were vehicles in Squad, the player speed was insanely fast, but they said it was to compensate for the lack of vehicles in game.... now its back again with the super speeds? what happens when heli gets added?

 

anyway, back in the day I could do 1km in 4:30, but I would run a lot, even 20kms in a day

If I wanted, I could do like in 4:00 one kilometer, but that was difficult for me

 

the guy who I trained with was 40 or 41 years old, he could do 16km/h and run 10kms

but he said it was difficult for him, so he would only train that hard before important races

 

we could run 20km/h (and we did) but for only for 150mts... then we would jog for 30 seconds and then would run more 150 mts

we did this 20 times in a row, and that was all the training we did for the that day

 

this was possible for us because we were used to running, but its hard if you are not prepared, and maybe impossible for most people

 

we used running clothes and ran on asphalt, and most important, NO WEIGTH to carry and on CLOUDY days only

 

the maximum weight I would carry was 1 kilo in total (500 grams in each leg)

they other runner could carry 3 kilos I believe (1 kilo per hand and 500 grams on eachr leg), but I dont remember this detail well, but it was more than I could carry

 

we used weights only sometimes for specific training

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@EA_SUCKS Your figures make complete sense. Nobody could run a 100 meters in 18 seconds carrying 70 lbs.

 

That said, Al Basrah is 75 square miles and has a population of 2.15 million people so I suppose there needs to be a little wiggle room in realism formula of the game.

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