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DorenZalupa

Bad/gamebreaking features in alpha 13

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6 minutes ago, EA_SUCKS said:

add gear, add bad terrain and see him die to make 20km/h

 

but thats not the point, the point is that the way the sprint is in the game right like is like everyones on crack

and add new rally point, no insta-death.... this is not BF

Yes, the way soldiers zip around and jitter side to side when strafing just looks silly. I prefer v12 movement.

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2 minutes ago, EA_SUCKS said:

add gear, add bad terrain and see him die to make 20km/h

 

but thats not the point, the point is that the way the sprint is in the game right like is like everyones on crack

and add new rally point, no insta-death.... this is not BF

Can’t assume that 18 km/h would be that much better then.

At any rate, you’re correct, it isn’t BF, it was and is Squad. The changes seem to be rather marginal (and underused in the case of buddy rallies, in my 8 rounds this weekend it was deployed once), so calling them “gamebreaking” is a bit of a stretch (even as I’m not too sure about the buddy rally or other changes).

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20 minutes ago, EA_SUCKS said:

add gear, add bad terrain and see him die to make 20km/h

 

but thats not the point, the point is that the way the sprint is in the game right like is like everyones on crack

and add new rally point, no insta-death.... this is not BF

Spot on. 

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4 hours ago, TheRubbaPelican said:

 The changes seem to be rather marginal (and underused in the case of buddy rallies, in my 8 rounds this weekend it was deployed once), so calling them “gamebreaking” is a bit of a stretch (even as I’m not too sure about the buddy rally or other changes).

Many people still don´t know it´s even there. I experienced that twice this weekend, explaining my SL what he could do. 

 

In the whole weekend of gaming, I respawned at main only once or maybe twice and that was because I was in a vehicle squad. 

 

Most of the time I wasn´t using habs. Only when a big part of the squad was out of ammo. 

 

In the cases the SL knew about the Buddy rally (or when I was SL) I used it all the time. In my case, I never told anything to the othe SLs. I just used it, and they just used mine. NO COORDINATION. NO TEAMWORK. Just more places to spawn if you´re careless or overrun by enemy.

 

I even saw a round in sumari with no hab placed and we won! We steam roleed them in minutes. Only with rallies. We were just rushing forward and swarming enemy positions. 

 

Buddy rally is a big NO for me.

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Yep buddy rally is a massive no for me. 

2 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Many people still don´t know it´s even there. I experienced that twice this weekend, explaining my SL what he could do. 

 

In the whole weekend of gaming, I respawned at main only once or maybe twice and that was because I was in a vehicle squad. 

 

Most of the time I wasn´t using habs. Only when a big part of the squad was out of ammo. 

 

In the cases the SL knew about the Buddy rally (or when I was SL) I used it all the time. In my case, I never told anything to the othe SLs. I just used it, and they just used mine. NO COORDINATION. NO TEAMWORK. Just more places to spawn if you´re careless or overrun by enemy.

 

I even saw a round in sumari with no hab placed and we won! We steam roleed them in minutes. Only with rallies. We were just rushing forward and swarming enemy positions. 

 

Buddy rally is a big NO for me.

Yep buddy rally is the biggest no no.

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Dont cry your eyes out guys, its alpha, and alot of changes are made and will be made in the future. Nothing in this update is gamebreaking, just enjoy the game and get accustomed to the changes, tweaks will be made anyway

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On 5/4/2019 at 7:40 AM, Mauti said:

@Undefined About your gear weight:

 

HAT Setup alone weights (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7):

RPG-7 with optics: 15lbs

Tandem-Rocket: 9.9lbs

2 fragemention rockets each 4lbs: 8lbs

 

Makes 32.9lbs alone

 

AK-74 + 150 Shots = 9.35lbs

 

Then add knife, boots and the gear to carry everything around and you have at least your 50lbs in Squad.

 

 

 

Insurgent HAT
Kit currently listed on the Squad Wiki page. All weights from Wikipedia & Ebay.
15 lbs. - SKS with Bayonet & 90 rounds ammo in stripper clips.
15 lbs. - RPG-7 launcher with optic.
9.9 lbs. - Tandem HEAT  Rocket @1
5.7 lbs. - HEAT Rocket @1
12 lbs. - FRAG Rocket @3
57.6 lbs. of listed weight.

Additional approximate weight not considered:

1 lbs. - Clothing
3 lbs. - Leather Combat Boots
2 lbs. - Full Canteen and Carrier.
2 lbs. - Load Bearing Equipment
1 lbs. - RPG Rocket Satchel/Backpack
1 lbs. - SKS Stripper clip bandolier.

That's leaving out any kind of food, shelter, sleeping bag or other personal effects like radio, binoculars, cell phone or knife. - Add an additional 2 lbs.

Total Realistic Weight: 69.6 lbs

 

 

 

 

v13 sprint doesn't bother me but lets not pretend this dude could sprint 100 meters at 20kmh.

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Is the run speed really that much of a change? While I think that acceleration and deceleration has room for improvement the speed difference is pretty minor.

 

 

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2 hours ago, DorenZalupa said:

I think some saboteurs from EA games were employed to work in Offworld...

I was thinking of that... so many new DEVs to the team now...

or maybe some of DICE's are on OWI now... and you know that they messed up? Battlefield 2

 

its an Alpha, but very close to Beta, which is why I am worried...

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2 minutes ago, Melbo said:

Is the run speed really that much of a change? While I think that acceleration and deceleration has room for improvement the speed difference is pretty minor.

 

 

 

the problem is that IT WAS ALREADY too fast in V12, which was 18km/h

now its even faster, like Sonic The Hedgehog

 

Squad is not the kind of game where you should be sprinting like mad, plus there are transport and APCs (and choppers soon)

if there were no vehicles like in the past, ok, it was fast but for a reason

 

it just hurts teamwork making it even faster, new RP system, no insta-death and so on...

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2 minutes ago, EA_SUCKS said:

 

the problem is that IT WAS ALREADY too fast in V12, which was 18km/h

now its even faster, like Sonic The Hedgehog

That's very debatable. 

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16 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Irrelevant.

 

20km/h is not a jog. It's the absolute upper end of a Sprint. Most people would be lucky to even Sprint 20 km/h. Then add gear on top of that.

 

Perhaps 'undefined' should aim to improve his/her quality of statements.

The average fit human can sprint 100m in 13 seconds(27.6km/h), with professional 100m sprinters being able to reach 35km/h+ speeds. The most extreme example being Bolt in the olympics during the 100m, reaching 44.7km/h at his peak, which is a whopping 12.42m/s 

20km/h in Squad is only for 100m on flat ground, The max speed of 5.5m/s is only maintained for a portion of the 100m distance.

 

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4 hours ago, Dubs said:

The average fit human can sprint 100m in 13 seconds(27.6km/h), with professional 100m sprinters being able to reach 35km/h+ speeds. The most extreme example being Bolt in the olympics during the 100m, reaching 44.7km/h at his peak, which is a whopping 12.42m/s 

20km/h in Squad is only for 100m on flat ground, The max speed of 5.5m/s is only maintained for a portion of the 100m distance.

 

Remind me, how much gear are there people carrying again?

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2 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Remind me, how much gear are there people carrying again?

Weight is not all that matters. The proper balancing of that weight can allow you to run faster, improperly balance and you’ll run slower. Not gonna say it’s definitively possible to clock 20 km/h, but I believe Dubs here has both research and experience to support him.

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12 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Remind me, how much gear are there people carrying again?

In Squad, based on equipment count and how they visually look, they're carrying about 30kg - 35kg of gear, which is a standard 24 - 72 hour patrol load. Which looks something like this in reality, with a helmet of course(personal image of mine)
patrol.thumb.png.5e728697e207f5c8e5756f0de542a810.png
It's possible that the Rifleman/GL troop could make 100m in 18 seconds,depending on their fitness level and how tuned they are to their additional weight, as well as if they're under contact and have that adrenaline surging. The support weapons & AT - Probably not due to the awkward nature and size of their weapons & equipment, throwing off center of gravity, causing them to move in a more restrictive manner.

Now if it was a full blown extended patrol or combat operation, which could be anywhere from 4 days to 2+ weeks meaning you have to carry up to 45kg+, which would look like this(another personal picture)
10402526_815142058518529_3013101919812741577_n.thumb.jpg.653d26c32dba8a3dd372bf26f735812b.jpg
Then yeh, 100m in 18 seconds would not be possible at all for anyone lol For obvious reasons.

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The realism argument will go on forever and get nowhere. Just saying it's too fast or fast enough is also subjective, you're saying it just makes the game feel more like you personally want it.

 

At the moment I think the new movement has some pros and cons.

 

The movement causes issues in close quarter environments where it's now way too easy to sprint around enemy and just turns those engagements into an exercise in twitch reflexes rather than careful teamplay.

 

In contrast to close quarters, open areas are a lot less of a pain to cross. If I need to get to an objective and transport is unavailable then running feels less annoying, even if it's nearly the same travel time from V12.

 

Most importantly though, if I'm crossing a street and a machine-gun opens up on me the new movement speed is a monumental improvement to the slower jog from before and feels great.

 

I think a way to improve it and get the best of both worlds would be to segment the stamina bar and have the v13 speed for about the first 1/4 of it, then a reduced speed for the rest and then the regular jog after the stamina bar is depleted. It would be important to have the v13 speed only trigger if the stamina bar is full to stop abuse.

 

Hopefully this would stop close quarters turning into a meth fueled paintball game but retain the haul-arse speed for when you're under fire. It would also encourage being a little more reserved with sprinting since you would only be able to go full speed with a full stamina bar.

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2 hours ago, Stom said:

The movement causes issues in close quarter environments where it's now way too easy to sprint around enemy and just turns those engagements into an exercise in twitch reflexes rather than careful teamplay.

 

In contrast to close quarters, open areas are a lot less of a pain to cross. If I need to get to an objective and transport is unavailable then running feels less annoying, even if it's nearly the same travel time from V12.

 

Most importantly though, if I'm crossing a street and a machine-gun opens up on me the new movement speed is a monumental improvement to the slower jog from before and feels great.

 

I think a way to improve it and get the best of both worlds would be to segment the stamina bar and have the v13 speed for about the first 1/4 of it, then a reduced speed for the rest and then the regular jog after the stamina bar is depleted. It would be important to have the v13 speed only trigger if the stamina bar is full to stop abuse.

 

Hopefully this would stop close quarters turning into a meth fueled paintball game but retain the haul-arse speed for when you're under fire. It would also encourage being a little more reserved with sprinting since you would only be able to go full speed with a full stamina bar.

Yeh, it's not a perfect balance right now - The main issue from my experience playing is when it comes to CQB like you state, things get quite spastic lol I think it comes down mainly to the acceleration, momentum and stam regen changes of v13. From mid to long distances, the speed & movement changes aren't that bad. But up close it gets hectic really quick.

The approach you suggest is quite an interesting one, I wouldn't mind if OWI explored and experimented different movement & speed approaches via the test app, if they get the time in-between all the big stuff.

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@Stom and @Dubs, good stuff guys. I think you may have nailed some of the big issues with the current speed/momentum.

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a13 speed is good

a13 stamina regen and usage is good

thanks all

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The strawman narrative presented that  different speeds for roles based on encumbrance will somehow break "squad cohesion" is no different than the one pushed regarding unlocking all the kits and letting the SL decide his/her squads composition based on need.

 

In both situations the elephant in the room is the fact that the game has been correctly programmed to give ultimate command supremacy to the SL regarding the negative scenarios pushed as truth in both cases.

 

It's quite simple, if iron sight Rifleman was the only one with Sonic sprint and he/she runs away you kick. By the same token if you're an SL and you're able to create a custom squad composition based on need and someone decides to do otherwise you kick. How hard is this to understand?

 

I think the biggest problem is the amount of cherry picking that goes on here. Think about it for a second. The narrative pushed about the restricted role selection system is "oh dude, that's realistic cuz in real life... blah blah blah" but then on the other hand when presented with the simple fact that everyone obviously knows that a person carrying 30 lbs. can run faster and farther than someone carrying 70 lbs. suddenly the "IRL" part gets forgotten and the subject gets changed by deflection.

 

This isn't a Reese's peanut butter commercial where chocolate and peanut butter go great together. Realistic MilSim and Arcade cannot be combined without diluting one another and often times even creating odd contradictions like this one.

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

It's quite simple, if iron sight Rifleman was the only one with Sonic sprint and he/she runs away you kick. By the same token if you're an SL and you're able to create a custom squad composition based on need and someone decides to do otherwise you kick. How hard is this to understand?

Is it really feasible to be kicking everyone who runs off while playing SL though? It’s not as easy as it sounds to pull out the menu and kick someone, even if you aren’t in combat at present, and it requires diverting your attention from the battlefield. If I’d have to imagine, the devs don’t integrate run speed differences or open kits because it would put more responsibility on the SL (not that I don’t like a few extra responsibilities).

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On 5/6/2019 at 8:42 AM, Melbo said:

Is the run speed really that much of a change? While I think that acceleration and deceleration has room for improvement the speed difference is pretty minor.

 

 

@Melbo thank you for posting the clip. Combined with the fact that sprint stamina runs out quite quickly now, i’ve come to like v13 speeds just fine.

 

OP’s points 1 and 2 are completely valid though. I have already had a number of situations in both cases where the new systems break flow even more than before. 

 

The buddy rally system, if it needs to remain, should only exist for players who have just joined the server.

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