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Bad/gamebreaking features in alpha 13

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3 hours ago, EA_SUCKS said:

what happens when heli gets added?

They said they’d have them out soon, and they’d look to make maps bigger also. Perhaps the run speed increase is preemptive...

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2 hours ago, TheRubbaPelican said:

They said they’d have them out soon, and they’d look to make maps bigger also. Perhaps the run speed increase is preemptive...

there was no reason to make the speed this fast, it used to be fast when there were no vehicles in game... I remember that well

they said it was for compensation for the lack of transport

 

now they increased it again, I hope they nerf the speed and only work on the stamina tweaks

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I largely agree with the incapacitation and buddy rally critique.

 

The movement speed could be slowed down a bit but I'm generally fine with, it's the momentum change I don't like the feel of.

 

The fourth point is ridiculous though. The systems to create the facial animations have been in there since the start, they didn't draw attention away from any other features and they don't cost you any real performance because it's such a simple system. Complaining about adding stuff like this is absurd.

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14 hours ago, Thegreenzzz said:

So do you think different classes should have different speeds?

No, purely for the reason it would hinder Squad cohesion and people would choose kits with low speed penalty - Because speed is one of the biggest advantages in fps games.

7 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

@EA_SUCKS Your figures make complete sense. Nobody could run a 100 meters in 18 seconds carrying 70 lbs.

They could, and I'm 100% sure many many have. I myself probably have, when I've had to cross open spaces under contact. 

All that weight isn't strapped onto your back, forcing you to bend knees and run with a hunch back. Its spread across your head, chest, waist and back - Allowing you to maintain center of gravity, and not fully restricting your maneuverability.  

Watch this video, shows troops sprinting in a full patrol loadout - Which is around 50lbs - 75lbs and is what the troops in Squad are using.

 

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Posted (edited)

It's obvious the OP is stressing his points with a lot of emotion. Let's not tackle him down for that. In his eyes, these features that he and many of us don't like are a at least gamebreaking to him.. Whether you interpret the word differently is another thing and we shouldn't be getting into debates of the use of his words, especially as it isn't his mother tongue! 

 

Point 1: I Agree. Buddy spawns in on buddies rally, Goes and places a rally somewhere. Another buddy spawns on that rally, goes and places a rally somewhere else. Chain effect, creates unlimited rallies to choose from and there is no way that the opposition can find them all. (This was implemented all because of the inaccessibility of transport (mid game). 

 

Point 2: I agree. Squad is slowly punishing us less for our mistakes generally speaking for a lot of things. Hence the buddy rally system and now no perma-death.

 

Point 3: I Agree. 10% Movement speed is a very strange route to go down. Often I hear people saying that in some game situations it has turned into a "running simulator". Again, this is because of the inaccessibility of transport (mid game). SuggestionFOB's can build a garage for just transport and can recall abandoned vehicles. Just something to help think outside the box.

 

Point 3: Meh. Perhaps time could have been put else where. I've always found lip movement in games immersion breaking because we aren't quite there yet technology wise for it to look realistic, it just looks too comical/amusing to watch. Love the hand gestures though and the QL hand to head when in command chat. B|

Edited by Quadro

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13 hours ago, EA_SUCKS said:

 

[..]

20km/h is not for everyone, if you are not a runner, I would not suggest even trying

[..]

What?!? 20 km/h is a very relaxed jog.

10km/h is when you let go of the clutch of a manual car and let it roll. Walking speed pretty much.

 

I see you worked on your text formatting. Nice! Now it's content you should consider improving. Quality instead of quantity.
The things you say and think make no sense.

 

19 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Yep. Insurgent HAT loadout is 70+ lbs.

Source please. I call bs.

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Posted (edited)

@Undefined I'm not sure if you are kidding or not. But 20km/h is far away from a relaxed jog. Top marathon runners have an average of ~20km/h (2hours and a few minutes for 42km) and it's hard to keep up with them even on a mountain bike.

 

I myself run 10km with an average of 13km/h without any gear of course. Normal walking speed is about 4km/h.

 

Boston marathon has these speed brackets:

Quote

Boston marathon has different qualification for different age brackets and genders. This qualification is what is expected to be the average
running speed of human of that gender in that category. 

Here’s How The Average Speed Breaks Down By Age:

  • Men at the age of 18-34 years should be having a speed of 13.62 km/h while women should have a speed of at least 11.72. 
  • Men with the age 35-39 qualify are their running speed is above 13.26km/h while women at this age group should have a running speed of over 11.45 km/h to qualify. 
  • Between the age of 40-44 men should have a speed of at least 12.92km/h while women should be able to run at a speed of over 11.02 km/h.

 

About your gear weight:

 

HAT Setup alone weights (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7):

RPG-7 with optics: 15lbs

Tandem-Rocket: 9.9lbs

2 fragemention rockets each 4lbs: 8lbs

 

Makes 32.9lbs alone

 

AK-74 + 150 Shots = 9.35lbs

 

Then add knife, boots and the gear to carry everything around and you have at least your 50lbs in Squad.

 

In the Austrian Army the most complete gear has a weight of about 35kg (77lbs) but that of course includes also sleeping bags, winter stuff and the Steyr AUG (StG 77) + 150 bullets. Middle combat weight gear was about 15kg (33lbs). Machine gunners and Gustav (LAT) had a few pounds more to carry.

 

 

Edited by Mauti

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@Mauti: so you agree it's not 70lbs after all. Thank you.

 

Regarding speed: you can't compare Marathon results with this. The way you apply statistics is faulty. You drastically increase the chance of drowning as soon as you get a pool in your backyard. That doesn't mean every second man with a pool drowns in it.

A Marathon runner has to conserve his energy to last for the duration of the Marathon. I would argue a soldier being shot at has a bit more motivation to sprint as fast as he possibly can for the duration of his short sprint.

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16 hours ago, EA_SUCKS said:

- Snip

Soldiers are constantly conditioned to adapt to their additional weight they have to carry during their enlistment training phases. A large portion of training is hiking, running & sprinting with not only combat load, but with their ruck packs too(the ones that suck the most :P). Then after they pass basic training, this carries on until the day they leave military life, to maintain fitness and combat readiness standards.

Everyone loses their breath after sprinting for 100m, that's not my argument - It's also one of the reasons I think 10sec stam regen speed is too fast when we have a 5.5m/s max sprint speed. 

As not only a soldier, but a personal trainer - I run & sprint regularly, I kind of have to if I want to remain fit and keep my jobs lol.  If a person constantly ran 20km/h for kilometers on end, yeh they would have an increase to health risk, would be far worse if they were in hot conditions and not remaining hydrated - But for 100m, that's fine, most fit & healthy people can sprint 100m in 12 - 14 seconds.

My overall point is, 100m in 18 seconds isn't insanely fast(even in terms of someone in combat kit). It's fast in certain situations in Squad, like in CQB situations - So I do agree to a slight speed reduction if other things aren't adjusted. What I think the issues are, is the amount of time it takes to go from 0 - 100 stamina(10sec) and how fast we accelerate & how long we maintain max speed in Squad.

At the end of the day, there has to be a balance between realism and gameplay to maintain a fun factor. Speed was reduced for these reasons when vehicles came, and now it's increased again because map sizes are increasing + new mechanics and content are slowing the game down in areas. It'll most likely change again soon, when the next survey is complete, and will probably change a few more times when helicopters & other things are added. 

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12 hours ago, Dubs said:

Soldiers are constantly conditioned to adapt to their additional weight they have to carry during their enlistment training phases. A large portion of training is hiking, running & sprinting with not only combat load, but with their ruck packs too(the ones that suck the most :P). Then after they pass basic training, this carries on until the day they leave military life, to maintain fitness and combat readiness standards.

Maybe profesional forces. But squad also features militia and Insurgents. So you should come up with some average, making those top speeds mentioned much less.

 

12 hours ago, Dubs said:

But for 100m, that's fine, most fit & healthy people can sprint 100m in 12 - 14 seconds.

Sprint is running as fast as you can. People do that with trainers and shorts in a track. Not in combar gear on uneven/Unkown ground.

 

12 hours ago, Dubs said:

My overall point is, 100m in 18 seconds isn't insanely fast(even in terms of someone in combat kit). 

It´s too much in combat kit.

 

12 hours ago, Dubs said:

At the end of the day, there has to be a balance between realism and gameplay to maintain a fun factor. 

V12 was fun and more realistic. Don´t see how fun wasn´t considered.

 

12 hours ago, Dubs said:

 Speed was reduced for these reasons when vehicles came, and now it's increased again because map sizes are increasing + new mechanics and content are slowing the game down in areas. 

Why don´t they change it AFTER the maps are extended. 

 

And...yes Another mechanic Like buddy rally. That one definitely doesn´t slow the game down in any área. Now no squad respawns back at main. EVER. YOu´re fighting one squad and all of a sudden, you´re fighting 3 because they can use the same spawn with noo need to COORDINATE anything. No need to sort out vehicles. No need to drive from main (forget about ambushes and others).

 

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2 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Maybe profesional forces. But squad also features militia and Insurgents. So you should come up with some average, making those top speeds mentioned much less.

 

Sprint is running as fast as you can. People do that with trainers and shorts in a track. Not in combar gear on uneven/Unkown ground.

 

It´s too much in combat kit.

 

V12 was fun and more realistic. Don´t see how fun wasn´t considered.

 

Why don´t they change it AFTER the maps are extended. 

 

And...yes Another mechanic Like buddy rally. That one definitely doesn´t slow the game down in any área. Now no squad respawns back at main. EVER. YOu´re fighting one squad and all of a sudden, you´re fighting 3 because they can use the same spawn with noo need to COORDINATE anything. No need to sort out vehicles. No need to drive from main (forget about ambushes and others).

 

Talking speed and numbers, and then coming up with multiple variables based on factions - Just complicates things. 

Insurgencies have operated in hilly & mountainous terrain for decades, not only against multiple Invasions, but against rivaling tribes/warlords and their own governments. They're highly conditioned to their terrain - One of the Pros of living in a beautiful country filled with mountains, hills and valleys.

The Militia in Squad while are made up, they're modeled from what I can tell, from Chechen/Eastern Europe Militia groups, which aren't your average people picking up a gun and acting like a Militia - Most apart of these Militia groups have prior military service, and are lead by ex-military, which undergo military type training to maintain their effectiveness against a conventional army.

I was talking about flat ground, uneven ground is a different story. But speed is reduced from climbing hills in Squad, So I doubt 100m in 18 seconds applies when running over hills in Squad.

100m in 18 seconds on flat ground is not too much in kit - It's very doable, unless we are talking sand and loose gravel - then that would not be possible. 

Buddy rally and insta death removal wasn't in v12 - So it had no effect on decisions and experiments made by OWI to balance out the pace of v12 transitioning into v13...Because they were decisions/experiments for v13 to try balance out game pace due to expanding maps, more larger maps being release, harder logistics and increased travel times.

I'm not a fan of buddy rally and insta death removal, and I hope to they're removed after the next survey. People need to stop acting like decisions are final, and the game is doomed. It's a game in development, things are going to constantly change..it's kind of how things work.

 

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2 hours ago, Dubs said:

Talking speed and numbers, and then coming up with multiple variables based on factions - Just complicates things. 

Insurgencies have operated in hilly & mountainous terrain for decades, not only against multiple Invasions, but against rivaling tribes/warlords and their own governments. They're highly conditioned to their terrain - One of the Pros of living in a beautiful country filled with mountains, hills and valleys.

The Militia in Squad while are made up, they're modeled from what I can tell, from Chechen/Eastern Europe Militia groups, which aren't your average people picking up a gun and acting like a Militia - Most apart of these Militia groups have prior military service, and are lead by ex-military, which undergo military type training to maintain their effectiveness against a conventional army.



 

I didn´t suggest different speeds. I pointed out that the aren´t all profesional soldiers thats Why we should come up with an average foe every soldier in squad, and that speed is going to be slower than the fastest soldier featured. So definetely not profesional soldier speed.

 

Insurgents and Militia, no matter how fit, are still irregular. They don´t need to fulfill US army standards for example (as long as u r willing to fight who cares how fast u are)

 

In the end...

 

2 hours ago, Dubs said:

 People need to stop acting like decisions are final, and the game is doomed. It's a game in development, things are going to constantly change..it's kind of how things work.

Now here. you´re right.  I´m very happy with the way the devs hear out the community claims. 

 

Some people just put it out as it´s the end of the world. 

 

Bottom line is I guess we aren´t going to agree.

 

And it´s quite curious because it´s something quite objective. 

 

And if it weren´t, then we could just find a middle point for everybody a bit faster than v12 and a bit slower than current v13.

 

 

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run speed should be a bit class specific, so a heavy machine gunner should be slower than a normal rifleman

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2 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

I didn´t suggest different speeds. I pointed out that the aren´t all profesional soldiers thats Why we should come up with an average foe every soldier in squad, and that speed is going to be slower than the fastest soldier featured. So definetely not profesional soldier speed.

 

Insurgents and Militia, no matter how fit, are still irregular. They don´t need to fulfill US army standards for example (as long as u r willing to fight who cares how fast u are)

 

In the end...

 

Now here. you´re right.  I´m very happy with the way the devs hear out the community claims. 

 

Some people just put it out as it´s the end of the world. 

 

Bottom line is I guess we aren´t going to agree.

 

And it´s quite curious because it´s something quite objective. 

 

And if it weren´t, then we could just find a middle point for everybody a bit faster than v12 and a bit slower than current v13.

 

 

I personally think 5.5m/s is a fine number for max speed. The main problems are how fast we accelerate from base movement speed to max speed, and how long we maintain that max speed for - On top of fast stam regen, and the momentum changes.

If it took longer to reach that max speed, with max speed only being maintained for around 2/3 the time that it does now, along with adding back momentum and increase the stam regen time from 10 to around 15 - 17 seconds, i think it would be a sweet spot. Not too fast, not too slow.



 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/5/2019 at 12:43 AM, DorenZalupa said:

Hello, i have more then 1000 hours in squad and after update just have to say what in my opinion very useless/gamebreaking and just bad features and of course with explanation and sorry for my english. Im big fan of this game from alpha 9, buy game without any sales to support devs.Also i play BF Project reality alot. But with all my respect to you and your work this improvements just terrifying me!

1. [runs counter to the spirit of game] SL BUDDY RALLY Gamebreaking, before that it was necessary to plan earlier where to place rally to hide from enemy and optimal distance from flag, also place rally somewhere near FLAG when defending for example, when enemy block your HAB, but you have support rally. When you attack outflanked in different way then attack HAB you have to hidden maneuver from back side and place rally safely, another words rally it's primary spawn point to attack and second priority to defend. When enemy burn rally you have fair penalty: disengaged from combat->spawn in main base->all that penality about 2 mins and reawrd for enemy who burn it, in defence they rewarded -some time off and ruin our attack from the flank for a couple minutes, as we have to spawn in attack HAB and start full-frontal attack or spawn in main base to start plan again, or walk from another HAB to start plan again and we still lose some time as penalty. NOW you just don't care!! don't care about rally at all, when your burned, you can just click to any buddy rally any other squad in any place on the map and spawn full squad..  there is no interest any more to trudge around in the woods searching rally, espexcially when searching rally was not easy, you make the way to rally by their corpses, you search and plan where they came from, just to stop attack for sometime from this side.

2.  [Gamebreaking, runs counter to the spirit of game]  "When a player is sent to incapacitated state, they will now not be put into the Insta-death state if they reach 0 HP within a certain time of being revived. Previously (Alpha 12), if an incapacitated player was revived, then sent to 0 HP within one minute of being revived, they were sent to the Death screen with no chance of reviving. In Alpha 13, players can now be revived regardless of the duration since the last revival." "goal of creating a more enjoyable experience "

What are you talking about?What kind of enjoyable experience? War is a pain!!! Not a Battlefield 5-6-7-8-9 or Call of duty !!  i'm not fan of super reality battles like in ARMA, but this is ridiculous!!! ALWAYS NEED SOME PENALTY!! Same i don't like in BF2 when you can unlimited time revive  from bloody death just with "duct tape"[email protected]! You kill enemy,then mate revive him, you came again and kill that bastard with friend, but it's ok another boy with dact tape fix them and ressurect as duct tape necromancer!! I think 1 chance to revive and insta death if he dies permamently  OPTIMAL CHOICE and we can live with that in terms of balance, not reality, like that was in alpha 12. We don't need another CAll of duty deathmatch mode, please.

3. [Gamebreaking, runs counter to the spirit of game]] Movement speed..... the guy with a huge military satchel on the back, full load with bandages,grenades or also RPG for example... He's running like a naked Usain Bolt which is three-time Olympic gold medalist.

4. LIP MOVEMENT?? JUST WHY??? WHY??? Why not spent same time to fix old bug with scopes of stationary guns, when you leave them, they keep stay in your face ...Visual side - it's looks terrible!! Gameplay side - NOTHING. an entirely unnecessary "improvent", it's just give more animation load your PC and game engine, especially when you set the purposeto bring to 100 players per server in future!!!

It's all just my opinion and i wish devs hear ME! I wish you will not go same road with battlefield EA games or stupid brainless shooters!!!

 

Little bug: Narva foliage on trees.  can't shoot through leafs on tress... Armored leafs... and old one shoot through a metal grid fense same imposible.. when it full of holes...

 

Other improvemnt like FOG of WAR, new vechicles, new recoils,  good scopes for many kits, scope perfomance improvement, and alot others VERY PROMISING!! Balance russian vechicle!! I enjoy them alot!! And again SORRY for my english, please.

1. Agree

2. Agree

3. No, an olympic sprinter runs 100m in 10 seconds therefore 10m/s.

these soldiers run at 5.5m/s . There is a 4.5m/s difference which is pretty big.

4.meh

 

 

Edited by maze2

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2 hours ago, Dubs said:

I personally think 5.5m/s is a fine number for max speed. The main problems are how fast we accelerate from base movement speed to max speed, and how long we maintain that max speed for - On top of fast stam regen, and the momentum changes.

If it took longer to reach that max speed, with max speed only being maintained for around 2/3 the time that it does now, along with adding back momentum and increase the stam regen time from 10 to around 15 - 17 seconds, i think it would be a sweet spot. Not too fast, not too slow.



 

Sounds like a nice middle ground. Also, it looks ridiculous when people sprint and side strafe at the same time. Strafing should be disable when at full sprint.

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43 minutes ago, fatalsushi said:

Sounds like a nice middle ground. Also, it looks ridiculous when people sprint and side strafe at the same time. Strafing should be disable when at full sprint.

Yeh, there's refinement and tweaks needing to be done. The speed & movement changes aren't perfect, but I'm glad OWI are experimenting, only way to find out what's liked and what works, is by experimenting. 

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5 hours ago, Dubs said:

I personally think 5.5m/s is a fine number for max speed. The main problems are how fast we accelerate from base movement speed to max speed, and how long we maintain that max speed for - On top of fast stam regen, and the momentum changes.

If it took longer to reach that max speed, with max speed only being maintained for around 2/3 the time that it does now, along with adding back momentum and increase the stam regen time from 10 to around 15 - 17 seconds, i think it would be a sweet spot. Not too fast, not too slow.



 

I agree with you there!

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Posted (edited)

Squad V13 = call of duty and battlefield.

I going back to play project reality and uninstalling squad.

Developers lied to the fans. I want my money back.
Edited by danielritual

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Posted (edited)
On 04/05/2019 at 11:56 PM, Undefined said:

What?!? 20 km/h is a very relaxed jog.

10km/h is when you let go of the clutch of a manual car and let it roll. Walking speed pretty much.

You've clearly never trained in your life. I challenge you to jump in a treadmill and do a "very relaxed jog at 20km/h". Please record and post up.

Edited by [email protected]

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9 hours ago, EA_SUCKS said:

SquadV13.jpg

 

2 hours ago, [email protected] said:

You've clearly never trained in your life. I challenge you to jump in a treadmill and do a "very relaxed jog at 20km/h". Please record and post up.

Keys here: 100M sprint. Much different than a marathon (long-distance), and not meant to be a jog.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TheRubbaPelican said:

 

Keys here: 100M sprint. Much different than a marathon (long-distance), and not meant to be a jog.

Irrelevant.

 

20km/h is not a jog. It's the absolute upper end of a Sprint. Most people would be lucky to even Sprint 20 km/h. Then add gear on top of that.

 

Perhaps 'undefined' should aim to improve his/her quality of statements.

Edited by [email protected]

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20 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Irrelevant.

 

20km/h is not a jog. It's the absolute upper end of a Sprint. Most people would be lucky to even Sprint 20 km/h. Then add gear on top of that.

 

Perhaps 'undefined' should aim to improve his/her quality of statements.

Totally relevant. First, I never said it was a jog, hence why i said:

2 hours ago, TheRubbaPelican said:

not meant to be a jog.

Secondly, a well-trained soldier with (as previously discussed) balanced weights could probably manage 20 km/h with the adrenaline going, so long as it is only over the 100m that your stamina lasts.

Also, fun fact: Olympian sprinters can go 15.9 mph, about 25.6km/h.

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add gear, add bad terrain and see him die to make 20km/h

 

but thats not the point, the point is that the way the sprint is in the game right like is like everyones on crack

and add new rally point, no insta-death.... this is not BF

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