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Buddy rally YES or NO ?  

70 members have voted

  1. 1. Buddy rally

    • Buddy rally YES?
      9
    • Buddy rally NO?
      52
    • I still need to think about it...
      9


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2 hours ago, Gatzby said:

I think that may sort of be the point -- it's 60 respondents with a sympathetic audience. It's a good sampling of what 60 people on the forums think, which is not where the people who are happily gaming away are, in general. =) I want to strongly state that it's still a valid and useful opinion, but do be cautious when thinking about the scale -- we recently announced over a million copies sold; 60 people isn't quite a full server.

I should have been more specific; people I talked with were in-game SLs and other squad members. I would be playing now but my desktop is in the shop :( 

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19 hours ago, Hotpokkaminny said:

this is an awful idea and the suggestion that the increased threat of getting killed while doing logi runs would somehow make them more interesting is beyond parody

The interest would come from having to coordinate safe routes and protective convoys, as opposed to the current norm of having one guy drive on his own. If logi runs were more important, they would be more interesting as the action would naturally spread to supply lines to a greater extent than currently.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Gatzby said:

I think that may sort of be the point -- it's 60 respondents with a sympathetic audience. It's a good sampling of what 60 people on the forums think, which is not where the people who are happily gaming away are, in general. =) I want to strongly state that it's still a valid and useful opinion, but do be cautious when thinking about the scale -- we recently announced over a million copies sold; 60 people isn't quite a full server.

Thank you for  dropping by! It´s nice feeling that one is being Heard.

 

Yet in this one it´s kind of tricky. Because I think this poll is quite valuable.

 

1. I don´t know why you say it´s a sympathetic audience. When I posted I specifically say that I would keep my thoughts for later because I didn´t want to ask a (too) biased questions (that´s almost imposible). Even later in that thread when it was 20 NO vs 0 YES I asked for people to come in and comment why it would be a good Idea.

 

2. This poll has an option to vote and speak your mind.  It´s more legitimate in the public aspect tan some other methodologies.

 

3. SOmebody also mentioned this. It´s not just the people who voted in this poll, but all the people I´ve been asking around in-game.

Situation: Riding a logi form main, long ride: Guys what do you think about v13? and what about buddy rally? I´ve had NO POSITIVE ANSWER IN 2 WEEKENDS OF GAMING. I would be very surprised if the result of that survey on the launcher had a different result.

Because the number is obviously much more tan the current 60 people that said NO.

 

 

Thank you again. Keep up the good work. Just get rid of buddy rally...;)

Edited by Nightingale87

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, pinko said:

I should have been more specific; people I talked with were in-game SLs and other squad members. 

Exactly.

Edited by Nightingale87

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2 hours ago, pinko said:

The interest would come from having to coordinate safe routes and protective convoys, as opposed to the current norm of having one guy drive on his own. If logi runs were more important, they would be more interesting as the action would naturally spread to supply lines to a greater extent than currently.

but that isn't more interesting, it just means the logi driver has to take a longer route

in the end he's still just driving a truck, it's hard enough to get one squad member to do a 5 minute logi run, it will be impossible to get 3 for a logi + escort on a longer route

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5 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

1. I don´t know why you say it´s a sympathetic audience. When I posted I specifically say that I would keep my thoughts for later because I didn´t want to ask a (too) biased questions (that´s almost imposible). Even later in that thread when it was 20 NO vs 0 YES I asked for people to come in and comment why it would be a good Idea.

I believe what Gatzby may be referring to is “volunteer sampling bias,” where only the people who are passionate about something take the time to vocalize their opinions or respond to a poll. Some people don’t really care about buddy rallies, or would like to see them implemented in a way where they can’t be used as a teleportation device, and don’t want to speak firmly for or against it. Others hate the new mechanic, and that drives them to speak out about it. That isn’t to say that this thread is an example, but it is very possible this is what is occurring.

 

Personally, I think the buddy rally is okay for keeping the fight together and preventing the steamroller games that occur every so often (usually because SL comms break down or a solid enemy flank), but it’s not a good mechanic when used for advancing to the next point or position. It should (somehow) become a last resort, an option for making a withdrawal from a location and not what it is currently.

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5 hours ago, TheRubbaPelican said:

I believe what Gatzby may be referring to is “volunteer sampling bias,” where only the people who are passionate about something take the time to vocalize their opinions or respond to a poll. Some people don’t really care about buddy rallies, or would like to see them implemented in a way where they can’t be used as a teleportation device, and don’t want to speak firmly for or against it. Others hate the new mechanic, and that drives them to speak out about it. That isn’t to say that this thread is an example, but it is very possible this is what is occurring.

Agreed. Still, with this same argument, the survey conducted in the server is not public and people don´t get to read arguments for and against things. A sample of people who are not passionate baout the changes is not ideal either.

 

5 hours ago, TheRubbaPelican said:

Personally, I think the buddy rally is okay for keeping the fight together and preventing the steamroller games that occur every so often (usually because SL comms break down or a solid enemy flank), but it’s not a good mechanic when used for advancing to the next point or position. It should (somehow) become a last resort, an option for making a withdrawal from a location and not what it is currently.

The question is that some people think that if you got steamrolled, it´s not a problem with the game mechanics, but with underperfoming SLs.

 

So in that case the gameplay is not something to be changed, but the sl´s approach and skill need to be different.

 

Take sports for example. If in a soccer/football match Team A wins 5-0. It´s not because the sport is flawed and we need to change it, it´s simply because one of them played very well and/ or the other team very poorly.

 

Finally, I should mention that I can count the times a team was steamrolled in v12 with one hand. But that is only my experience. And the servers and times were you play will give you a completely differen perception of the game.

 

So maybe if you constantly get a game in which one of the teams is steamrolled, and I usually never get it, it shows that the way the game is played affects it´s outcome.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Hotpokkaminny said:

but that isn't more interesting, it just means the logi driver has to take a longer route

in the end he's still just driving a truck, it's hard enough to get one squad member to do a 5 minute logi run, it will be impossible to get 3 for a logi + escort on a longer route

How would it mean you'd have to take a longer route? Shorter routes would require less manpower to secure. The reason logis take long routes now is because they go unaccompanied and must avoid detection.

Edited by pinko

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3 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

The question is that some people think that if you got steamrolled, it´s not a problem with the game mechanics, but with underperfoming SLs.

 

So in that case the gameplay is not something to be changed, but the sl´s approach and skill need to be different.

 

Take sports for example. If in a soccer/football match Team A wins 5-0. It´s not because the sport is flawed and we need to change it, it´s simply because one of them played very well and/ or the other team very poorly.

 

Finally, I should mention that I can count the times a team was steamrolled in v12 with one hand. But that is only my experience. And the servers and times were you play will give you a completely differen perception of the game.

 

So maybe if you constantly get a game in which one of the teams is steamrolled, and I usually never get it, it shows that the way the game is played affects it´s outcome.

I agree wholeheartedly. The thing is, it would require SLs to change, and I don’t see any new features that could cause that change quite yet. Using the buddy rally system as a band-aid and not a cheat code is what I’d prefer, at least until there’s something to teach SLs how to play, or most of the ones who do it regularly get a lot of experience

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what if buddy rally did not work in x radius of attack flag?

Helpful for defence to prolong games when a hab gets taken down but not able to be used to support attacks.

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19 hours ago, Gatzby said:

I think that may sort of be the point -- it's 60 respondents with a sympathetic audience. It's a good sampling of what 60 people on the forums think, which is not where the people who are happily gaming away are, in general. =) I want to strongly state that it's still a valid and useful opinion, but do be cautious when thinking about the scale -- we recently announced over a million copies sold; 60 people isn't quite a full server.

The new surveys in the client are the main reason for me to be concerned. I mean its always neat to give feedback but with >1 million copies sold that could be turned into 90% of them suggestion lvl-ups, weapon unlocks or killstreaks someday. Even if the majority would be asking for stuff like that I still hope that such suggestions didn't get through.

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1 hour ago, Phoenixstorm said:

The new surveys in the client are the main reason for me to be concerned. I mean its always neat to give feedback but with >1 million copies sold that could be turned into 90% of them suggestion lvl-ups, weapon unlocks or killstreaks someday. Even if the majority would be asking for stuff like that I still hope that such suggestions didn't get through.

It’s important to remember that the OWI survey is about features that the devs made already, not the creation of new features. I have a feeling OWI wouldn’t throw in killstreaks, level-ups, etc. even if a plurality of the player base asked for it.

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I wouldn't be so sure anymore. If it let them sell 1 more million copies, then sounds like a way they prefer to go anyway

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, TheRubbaPelican said:

I have a feeling OWI wouldn’t throw in killstreaks, level-ups, etc. even if a plurality of the player base asked for it.

I would have never even dreamed that something like the buddy rally system could possibly get implemented, yet here we are. Be careful with your predictions about what devs would and would not do, you might be unpleasantly surprised. 

 

As for the survey and its sample size, it should be compared to the number of active forum users, not the number of copies sold and suddenly the number of responses won't seem so insignificant (plus it would make much more sense as far as statistics go). 

Edited by MultiSquid

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2 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

I would have never even dreamed that something like the buddy rally system could possibly get implemented, yet here we are. Be careful with your predictions about what devs would and would not do, you might be unpleasantly surprised. 

You didn’t expect a feature to come into the game, so the devs must be trying to make the next BF game? Buddy rallies aren’t a properly refined feature, and may seem a little “arcadey”, but to claim that Squad will become CoD with a VoIP system based on the new mechanics is flat-out wrong. There’s no correlation whatsoever with the addition of a buddy rally (which I’m almost certain doesn't exist in any game) and a game becoming more like the simplistic, Run’n’Gun stuff we’ve seen.

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19 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

 

1. I don´t know why you say it´s a sympathetic audience.

The forums are a community with some strongly known biases. Same thing with reddit. It's easy to predict what the poll results will be for a given segment of the community.  The poll doesn't exist in a perfectly neutral vacuum without a post history, either.

But at a more basic level, the people that are happy with the changes are playing the game. Most of them aren't browsing the forums looking to weigh in; they're 9 folks deep into a FOB. To put it another way, the poll is a significant look into 60 people who read the forums and choose to vote in a poll on buddy rallies. It's important, but it's not necessarily a broad impact statement of community sentiment. (Not to mention it's conducted in English, which eliminates a heck of a lot of the Squad population -- a problem with our own polls for now too, of course.)

 

There are about 3000 people playing Squad at this moment, 60 people is about 2% of that, and if you take into account the 1% rule, it's handy to remember you may be getting 2% of the 1% of the people who passionately read everything about a game. That's a very different audience than even someone with 3000 hours in competitive, or 50 hours of messing around with buddies.

 

Quote

3. SOmebody also mentioned this. It´s not just the people who voted in this poll, but all the people I´ve been asking around in-game.

I'm glad you're chatting people up, but hearsay is entirely irrelevant. I can hear anything I want if I choose to listen to the right people too. =)

 

Anyway, the poll IS important, we ARE reading it, I'm just cautioning against seeing this as representative of anyone outside the thread discussing it.

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4 hours ago, Gatzby said:

The forums are a community with some strongly known biases. Same thing with reddit. It's easy to predict what the poll results will be for a given segment of the community.  The poll doesn't exist in a perfectly neutral vacuum without a post history, either.

A poll doesn´t exist with neutral vacuum period. One may argue that the wording in any survey may be biased. In this one people can speak their mind. And change their minds through arguments.

 

4 hours ago, Gatzby said:

But at a more basic level, the people that are happy with the changes are playing the game. Most of them aren't browsing the forums looking to weigh in; they're 9 folks deep into a FOB. 

And it has been like that for all the other changes you implemented in the game. Most people played the game and didn´t care to weigh in in the oficial fórums. Yet...for some of those changes you did decide to hear the "lound unhappy minority" expressing themselves here.

 

Sometimes you decided to follow it, what does it depend on?

 

4 hours ago, Gatzby said:

There are about 3000 people playing Squad at this moment, 60 people is about 2% of that, and if you take into account the 1% rule, it's handy to remember you may be getting 2% of the 1% of the people who passionately read everything about a game. That's a very different audience than even someone with 3000 hours in competitive, or 50 hours of messing around with buddies.

 

Also, many of those happy people would be happy with no buddy rallies, they are just indifferent to it. So having 99 indofferent people and 1 sad can´t be better tan having 99 indifferent people and 1 happy.

 

Btw. I´m also among those people playing the game (4 hours later)

 

4 hours ago, Gatzby said:

I'm glad you're chatting people up, but hearsay is entirely irrelevant. I can hear anything I want if I choose to listen to the right people too. =)

Just like with the result of a poll. Tied to subjective notions is part of human conditions.

 

 

 

Bottom line.

I think some of us who aren´t happy about some changes (don´t get me wrong in every other aspect v13 is great and I congratulate you) need yto hear some of your thinking behind these mechanics

 

For example. I´m aware there had been some arguments aout speed pre v12 even. So I understand where it comes from.

 

Now Insta death and buddy rally came out of nowhere. And some of us are there just asking ourselves "what´s going on?", some even start conspiracy theories about SQUAD becoming COD/BF just to sell copies. That happens because there is a lack of explanation of the trend of thought behind changes that nobody asked for and nobody seemed to think were broken!

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I´ve realized there are some other threads that keep coming up about current meta with new mechanics. I wonder the impact of those mechanics now being removed.

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Small research:

8kEgep7.png

As you can see the new changes in gameplay did not attract more players. Why do a lot of people tell that new gameplay (faster paced with buddy rallies) results in more players? You may clearly see that every Squad patch players count jumps to apprx. 2500, after that we see a decrease. That patch is not an exception. Just want to say stop to people saying that new changes incresased average players count. That is a false statement, they are not.

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3 hours ago, Ruplay said:

Small research:

8kEgep7.png

As you can see the new changes in gameplay did not attract more players. Why do a lot of people tell that new gameplay (faster paced with buddy rallies) results in more players? You may clearly see that every Squad patch players count jumps to apprx. 2500, after that we see a decrease. That patch is not an exception. Just want to say stop to people saying that new changes incresased average players count. That is a false statement, they are not.

Those peaks occur like that after every big update. 

 

There was no need to implement certain mechanics, and I´d still would like to hear the resons behind them. (things nobody asked for, except maybe for running speed)

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