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Buddy rally YES or NO ?  

70 members have voted

  1. 1. Buddy rally

    • Buddy rally YES?
      9
    • Buddy rally NO?
      52
    • I still need to think about it...
      9


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Posted (edited)

Well.

 

I don´t want to incline the Poll before I see some answers and opinions there. So I will keep my opinion for later.

 

The changelog states that this feature is experimental and feedback is crucial. Let´s make use of the attention de devs pay to the community and give some clear and useful feedback. 

 

Please keep an open mind, opinions clear, and be respectful.

 

Thank you!

Edited by Nightingale87

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Posted (edited)

The new mechanic is horrible in its main concept.

It allows to teleport troops, meaning the whole team with the less possible effort and not detectable by the enemy.

- It would be possible to have a 2 man squad go anywhere and let the whole team spawn there out of thin air one minute later.

This fact alone is ridiculous when we look at all the way Squad was heading until this patch.

 

Iam not sure if i have to explain why this actually is bad but i will:

It will lead to totally artificial engagements.

and sending out scouts on D-Flag will become too much of a risk.

 

As a defender scouting was a big point, although often neglected and maybe not everyones favourite job. Still crucial. It was possible to scout enemy infantry movement or listing to vehicle sounds.

Scouting a Transport or a Full Squad is much easier than 2 guys sneaking somewhere with a full brigarde in their backpack

 

Besides that:

What are you supposed to do as defender now but holding flag and outkill them.

Should you destroy their RallyPoint, when you at least know where they come from only to have them Spawn from the other direction one minute later and get caught off guard? You might be at a disadvantage after destroying their rallypoint.

 

Further on this new mechanic could lead to situations where it would be best just to suicide as a SL.

 

What would prevent a team from just turtling on D-Flag as whole team, bleed the enemies by defending and in case things go south your team just spawns on your "2Men Best Buddies Rally Squad" on attack flag and go in for the easy double neutral or even on the Dflag and run them over again?

 

Still further on ... people complaining about too many small squads. Right now its probably the best to have 5men infantry squads only, beside special squads like the buddy squad or vehiclesquads. The more Teamwidespawns possible the better for the team.

I want to stop now.

 

 

Edited by gshAT

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Just now, gshAT said:

The new mechanic is horrible in its main concept.

It allows to teleport troops, meaning the whole team with the less possible effort.

- It would be possible to have a 2 man squad go anywhere and let the whole team spawn there out of thin air one minute later.

This fact alone is ridiculous when we look at all the way Squad was heading until this patch.

 

Iam not sure if i have to explain why this actually is bad but i will:

As a defender scouting was a big point, although often neglected and maybe not everyones favourite job. Still crucial. It was possible to scout enemy infantry movement or listing to vehicle sounds.

 

Scouting a Transport or a Full Squad is much easier than 2 guys sneaking somewhere.

Besides that:

 

What are you supposed to do as defender now but holding flag and outkill them.

Should you destroy their RallyPoint only to have them Spawn from the other direction one minute later and get caught off guard? You might be at a disadvantage after destroying their rallypoint.

 

Further on this new mechanic could lead to situations where it would be best just to suicide as a SL.

What would prevent a team from just turtling on D-Flag as whole team, bleed the enemies by defending and in case things go south your team just spawns on your "2Men Best Buddies Rally Squad" on attack flag and go in for the easy double neutral?

 

Still further on ... people complaining about to many small squads. Right now its probably the best to have 5men infantry squads only beside special squads like the buddy squad or vehiclesquads. The more Teamwidespawns possible the better for the team.

I want to stop now.

 

 

If we gave buddy rally limited spawns (think V10)

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Thegreenzzz said:

If we gave buddy rally limited spawns (think V10)

i spawn there as a SL and then run 100 m away to set a new Rally which actually is the tactic when you spawn on your Buddy's rally. Make 2 out of them again as fast as possible.

 

What i would like to know why would you actually like to make a something like a buddy rally system work. whats the intended upside?

Its the damn same concept which was already discussed when cooker fobs where in place back then. where the meta was that 3 guys cruise around the map and set up a million fobs.

When this discussion was going on i actually also defended this system and giving suggestions on how it could be working when limited.

After it was gone i would never would have wanted it back.

 

Edited by gshAT

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Buddy-rally is like a mini fob just without radio/hab and logistics.

I hope that doesn't end in another meat grind meta.

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It's similar to squad hoping mechanics. Squads need to be wiped, to create space for revives, building and map control. Squads should be held responsible for losing fobs and rallies, and it's eliminates all of it.

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FOBs are the main source of the endless firefights right now rather than rallies, if this ends up increasing squad cohesion to the detriment of FOBs it'll at least be an improvement. After a12 there's really nowhere to go but up.

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I dont like it... There was nothing wrong with rally point before, so why the fix? :/

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Dunno if would be classed as good or bad.
Had a game today, defenders lost the flag and the fob and no rallies to get back to the defend flag.  All looked lost from the great attack of the enemy except, I got the IFV to change their kits and deploy rallies on the west and east of the objective. The defeated squads put down buddy rallies and assaulted back at the flag, regaining the objective. 

 

Is this an exploit or is it just the envisioned play style. There can be some co ordination that good, but still feel it rewards failure.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, gshAT said:

- It would be possible to have a 2 man squad go anywhere and let the whole team spawn there out of thin air one minute later.

Exactly. A two man Vanguard squad can not only set up the next assault but also find and dig back FOB's.

 

Honestly if you think back to the FOB's that you spawned on by themselves that eventually got nerfed with the HAB, how is this any different other than you can't build on it?

 

My vote is a solid no on the "Buddy Rally". Put more transport trucks at main and make people put some effort into the game.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Honestly if you think back to the FOB's that you spawned on by themselves that eventually got nerfed with the HAB, how is this any different other than you can't build on it?

Not sure if i understand you correctly or if this was a question concerning me, but yes i think its the same mechanic that already got discussed long time ago with cooker fobs and coded out of the game for exact those reasons. and for the good i think. now its back just with a rally.

Edited by gshAT

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2 hours ago, gshAT said:

Not sure if i understand you correctly or if this was a question concerning me, but yes i think its the same mechanic that already got discussed long time ago with cooker fobs and coded out of the game for exact those reasons. and for the good i think. now its back just with a rally.

That's my whole point. Now we have the same Uberspawn back that you can place anywhere on the map just like the good old days but now it only takes two players instead of three.

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8 hours ago, Smee said:

 There can be some co ordination that good, but still feel it rewards failure.

 

I think You´re right. It rewards FAILURE.

 

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I hate buddy rallies. They cause engagements to become indecisive and grindy instead of encouraging reposition and maneuver.

 

They make FOBs far less valuable.

 

They reward failure to an extent.

 

The only team that MIGHT be ok with having them is the insurgent team.

 

If buddy rallies are to remain then placing rallies needs to be harder to prevent exploitation. 2 guys in a jeep should not be able to generate a spawn that effectively can be used to teleport the team (although not conveniently).

 

 

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fob.jpg

 

From a game today lol. Classic tactics and strategy only FOBs can provide, complete meatgrinder stalemate... goes without saying only pressure at the other cap peeling off infantry from bluefor broke the game out of this situation. Otherwise it likely would have lasted until the end of the match. You're nuts if you think this is the kind of gameplay worth protecting.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Good-Try Greg said:

fob.jpg

 

From a game today lol. Classic tactics and strategy only FOBs can provide, complete meatgrinder stalemate... goes without saying only pressure at the other cap peeling off infantry from bluefor broke the game out of this situation. Otherwise it likely would have lasted until the end of the match. You're nuts if you think this is the kind of gameplay worth protecting.

Yep. It's a complete grind fest. Both teams are essentially locked in. Nothing else to do or be but fight, fight, fight on the same area. Terrible, I've played a few games but I couldn't stand witnessing what the community predicted. I can't play it like this :/

Edited by Quadro

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Posted (edited)

The only thing that polls like these prove is that the majority of people are stupid, lemmings, zombies, headless chickens, etc.

 

Ya'll got brainwashed by that one v13 video which turned from a "v13 news" video into "my personal bitchy opinions on everything v13" really quick without most people noticing.

 

That situation with the two HAB's next to each other is easily fixed. You get there (thanks to flanking rallies and buddy rallies no less), overrun it and dig it down. Stop whining and git gud.

Edited by Undefined

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Undefined said:

The only thing that polls like these proves is that the majority of people are stupid, lemmings, zombies, headless chickens, etc.

 

Ya'll got brainwashed by that one v13 video who turned from a "v13 news" video into "my personal bitchy opinions on everything v13" really quick without most people noticing.

get outta here or behave and at least read what this Thread is about.

 

3 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

fob.jpg

 

From a game today lol. Classic tactics and strategy only FOBs can provide, complete meatgrinder stalemate... goes without saying only pressure at the other cap peeling off infantry from bluefor broke the game out of this situation. Otherwise it likely would have lasted until the end of the match. You're nuts if you think this is the kind of gameplay worth protecting.

If you want to prove, that the FOB mechanics of v12 were bad with this example it might be kinda misleading. Especially this part of this Map is kinda problematic, although i cant see any rallys in the ditches north or west from where someone could have made a at least a flanking manouver while still it would have been hard just because of the map.

 

an if you are locked in somewhere things already have gone south. and could have been prevented

vehicle support could help alot in this kind of situations .. assuming you still got some

 

do you really think a team that got locked up like there should be given the possibility to just spawn on attackflag without effort and overrun them on their defense?

 

Dont get me wrong i had situations like this and i hate them. I also hate getting wiped by another squad. Or blown up in a tank. (btw: the mobile TOWS/Kornets are way too OP)

 

3 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

goes without saying only pressure at the other cap peeling off infantry from bluefor broke the game out of this situation

how did you did that? with the buddy rallys?

in v12 it was the same tactic but you would have done it with another FOB.

Edited by gshAT

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Those HAB-to-HAB situations may yet educate players to work as a team over time. If this simple task overwhelms them it is actually an argument for buddy rallies.

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18 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

fob.jpg

 

From a game today lol. Classic tactics and strategy only FOBs can provide, complete meatgrinder stalemate... goes without saying only pressure at the other cap peeling off infantry from bluefor broke the game out of this situation. Otherwise it likely would have lasted until the end of the match. You're nuts if you think this is the kind of gameplay worth protecting.

 

 Assuming that´s all to see there in that picture (Which is a huge assumption) you don´t take into account some things:

 

1- There can be flanking manouvers with normal rallies JUST LIKE THERE´S EVER BEEN.

2- AFV can break deadlock.

3- Squads moving from main can approach and break deadlock.

4- Squads coming from main can build a second fob surrounding enemy.

 

Now. Somebody has already mentioned that that picture ignores everything that happense BEFORE that momento and everything that is NOT in that picture AT that moment. So basically that picture is close to irrelevant.

15 hours ago, Undefined said:

The only thing that polls like these prove is that the majority of people are stupid, lemmings, zombies, headless chickens, etc.

 

Ya'll got brainwashed by that one v13 video which turned from a "v13 news" video into "my personal bitchy opinions on everything v13" really quick without most people noticing.

 

That´s plain offensive and not productive at all.

 

Now this part I love...

15 hours ago, Undefined said:

 You get there (thanks to flanking rallies and buddy rallies no less), overrun it and dig it down. Stop whining and git gud.

Why don´t you get there with no buddy rallies??? that means get gudder!...  :P

 

One last thing. I haven´t seen any video like the one u mention. Please stop assuming things.

5 hours ago, SERGEANT ANDREWS said:

iv liked it so far, less headache 

The thing is that a GREAT part of the community in this game is looking for that: THE HEADACHE. What you call headache I call a tactical challenge. That makes this game NOT just a First Person Shooter, but a TACTICAL SHOOTER. 

 

Things like buddy rally drain from the TACTICAL element in the game. 

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It's a common situation, wherever there are two opposing FOBs around a cap it's basically all the same. This was just particularly silly because both teams were spawning right across from each other.

Flanking did resolve it in this case, but only because one of the teams was distracted elsewhere on the map and didn't have the numbers to hold back the pressure. Otherwise it's a sure stalemate.

 

 

Re Vehicles: Any AFV driving into that mess would have to be suicidal, infantry may be able to get away with bashing their heads against enemy respawns but vehicles can't. It's smarter to play safe and try to rack up some insane killcounts from a distance instead. I think that's the best you can hope for when flanking as infantry as well if the FOBs are running at full strength. There's no shortage of guys to shoot at.

In this case I think the vehicles were too busy fighting each other. The new AT cars were pretty much wrecking everything lol

54 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

4- Squads coming from main can build a second fob surrounding enemy.

This can be risky. The FOB's greatest defense is numbers, by setting up more FOBs the enemy will have an easier time overrunning and destroying them. Same applies to doing really deep flanking tactics with rallies, if it involves pulling 9 infantry out of the battle then it's a risk to the FOB. "What is our team doing!" cries the genius SL as FOB and cap are lost while he takes 1/5th of the team on a nature hike.

 

I don't like rallies, but I really hate FOBs. The epic battles are fun for like 5 minutes and then they get really repetitive and boring. If buddy rallies diminish spawns on FOB at all then they will be good for the game. Buddy rallies, combat engineers, and even removing permadeath (I've noticed there's more incapacitated bodies and less respawns when the FOB is getting pounded now) are all attacks on FOBs. Not exactly the way I'd like to see it done, but if that's the intention it's a good one.

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3 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

It's a common situation, wherever there are two opposing FOBs around a cap it's basically all the same. This was just particularly silly because both teams were spawning right across from each other.

Flanking did resolve it in this case, but only because one of the teams was distracted elsewhere on the map and didn't have the numbers to hold back the pressure. Otherwise it's a sure stalemate.

So if it didn´t really happen, we are talking about a "problematic" situation on terms of gameplay that wasn´t problematic at all. THat kinda says it all about that.

 

3 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

Re Vehicles: Any AFV driving into that mess would have to be suicidal, infantry may be able to get away with bashing their heads against enemy respawns but vehicles can't. It's smarter to play safe and try to rack up some insane killcounts from a distance instead. I think that's the best you can hope for when flanking as infantry as well if the FOBs are running at full strength. There's no shortage of guys to shoot at.

In this case I think the vehicles were too busy fighting each other. The new AT cars were pretty much wrecking everything lol

I didn´t suggest driving the vehicle in there. God no!

It´s about firepower. A vehicle can easily sit back (Specially South west in thas specific picture) and suppress the enemy hangar. Now the enemy aint looking out. You have achieved what is called FIRE SUPERIORITY.

 

And then your manouver elements (infantry) move closer to it. Frag , bla bla bla, and slowly swarm both entrances (and rooftop)

 

3 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

. The FOB's greatest defense is numbers, by setting up more FOBs the enemy will have an easier time overrunning and destroying them. Same applies to doing really deep flanking tactics with rallies, if it involves pulling 9 infantry out of the battle then it's a risk to the FOB. "What is our team doing!" cries the genius SL as FOB and cap are lost while he takes 1/5th of the team on a nature hike

The key Word is coordination.

Let´s say there are 4 SLs on squad channel. You talk it out. 3 squads are just going to hold the stalemate and fight PROBING ENEMIES DEFENSE, aka Putting pressure on one of the flanks of the enemy fob. While the other squad Not even the whole squad all u need is SL and 2 more men) sets up a fob on the other side of the pressure at around 400 mts from enemy. 

 

And that´s it, you have 2 fobs surrounding one of the enemy.

 

 

Final Word. The difference between a First Person shooter and a TACTICAL shooter is exacly tactical challenges like this one. People need to find a way to overcome any situation put there by Clash of forces.

 

Budyd rallies require NO COORDINATION. I played squad lead 3 times at the weekend and not once did I say anything to the SL whose rally I was using. It was just QUICK, CONVENIENT, and EASY.

Nor did they ask me anything on radio when they were using it. NO COORDINATION, NO TEAMWORK.

 

 

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