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Alpha 13 Patch Notes

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19 minutes ago, Self Raking Leaf said:

I am personally for the movement changes

I found that the movement and gunplay is simply too slow and tedious to enjoy, in PR it was something special and unique, but Squad isn't PR. 

They are certainly personal tastes. I prefer a slower and tactical game play.
The problem that the 10% increase in speed + faster transitions totally changed the infantry game play. In fact it is another product now.

 

And I'm curious to understand why the Devs have made a choice so ... far from their initial vision.

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My take on this is ....

 

Game movement speed "Could" be a between V12 and V13 with some added rules or transitions. Fast (ie 10%) if your suppressed or short burst speed increase for road crossings (ie Adrenalin rush) and a fall back to V12 speed after this burst. It would be more realistic. Players as pure riflemen are faster than a AR gunner hauling around a hog. Little tweaks to the speed could make the immersion much better. 

 

This is still alpha and I would bet that A14 makes some changes based on observed meta and player feedback. There has to be a balance somewhere. Most of what was added right now was fodder to placate us as the Devs had there hands full with the engine upgrade. I expect now, with new tools the updates will not only come much faster but have real content (heli's / maps / armor). 

 

Oh...and Gatzby I still want Pen flares and to be able to use my E-Tool as a melee weapon.

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1 hour ago, Tmac said:

Exactly this.

 

From v10 the game has completely changed, according to the original vision of the Devs, towards a more realistic approach (in some aspects maybe too much).

Now, months and months later, suddenly, three versions later, we are faced with a completely different product. This thing is unsettling ... I can't understand where they want to go (maybe better not to know ..)

 

Beyond the perma death and buddy rally, the speed and transitions changed are surely the things that will make me move away from Squad.
Because Squad was "unique" in its kind, now it is no longer. Suddenly.

 

I hope that the Devs can answer about why a change so decided towards a game more "simple", fast and immediate.

How is squad not unique? It is the only game in its class. A 9-man squad based shooter with large maps and combined arms warfare

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TheRubbaPelican said:

I don’t understand the lamentation over “the end of Squad as we know it”, the “this game is now (insert title here), it’s no longer special”. The basis of Squad (cooperation, tactics, infantry-based combat) is still intact and being improved. I get that the movement speed is a bit much, I get that the rally system isn’t what it was before, but in the end players still need to take combat slow (ensure they don’t make mistakes) and communicate with their team to be successful. They aren’t able to just run around mag-dumping into everything they see (if they want to be successful, that is).

   I suppose what I really want to understand is why the movement speed increase or the rally system or the permadeath mechanic are a departure from the core elements of Squad. Does someone mind explaining?

I dont know if you have been, but many people have been involved in this from of course initial backers and like myself when it first arrived on steam, back then there were no vehicles, it was a running sim, CQB on some small maps and down to a lot of squad communication and  actual teamwork on larger maps as it required decent timing and defense because no one wanted to run the distances from fobs !     

 

With every update there have been some very good changes but gradually (vehicle implementation has been its greatest teamplay downfall) it became more and more like a rush TDM on larger maps rather than what was an expected slower game play, tactical positioning and semi realistic military sim.  

 

From V10 there has been a shift to placate those that want a more casual gameplay style,  and this update certainly seems a swing in favour of those types of players ADS speed/optics/speed of running, a rally that can now be placed next to others/gear changes from trucks/whilst not against it perma death threat is removed ... 

 

At its core of course squad can still be played as the same game,  but the character you are playing has begun to get further away  from  imo a  representation of a soldier but a gamified one.  One thing I believe they have never done well is the element of consequence, creating squads and immediately leaving or handing over the role, dying is now compounded by the fact that there is no perma death and a push from the devs to keep players spawning by allowing the SL options on where he can place his rally, giving everyone the ability to revive rather than only medics and everyone can heal stamina..   Look at vehicles for instance.. there is never any consequence for leaving a vehicle on the field or losing a vehicle 90% of time they are a mode of transport to get from a to b their worth other than that is not recognised. 

 

Its like death by a thousand cuts... 

 

 

Edited by embecmom

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1 minute ago, embecmom said:

I dont know if you have been, but many people have been involved in this from of course initial backers and like myself when it first arrived on steam, back then there were no vehicles, it was a running sim, CQB on some small maps and down to a lot of squad communication and  actual teamwork on larger maps as it required decent timing and defense because no one wanted to run the distances from fobs !     

 

With every update there have been some very good changes but gradually (vehicle implementation has been its greatest teamplay downfall) it became more and more like a rush TDM on larger maps rather than what was an expected slower game play, tactical positioning and semi realistic military sim.  

 

From V10 there has been a shift to placate those that want a more casual gameplay style,  and this update certainly seems a swing in favour of those types of players ADS speed/optics/speed of running, a rally that can now be placed next to others/gear changes from trucks/whilst not against it perma death threat is removed ... 

 

At its core of course squad can still be played as the same game,  but the character you are playing has begun to change into something that is not imo an accurate  representation of a soldier but a gamified one.  One thing I believe they have never done well is the element of consequence, creating squads and immediately leaving or handing over the role, dying is now compounded by the fact that there is no perma death and a push from the devs to keep players spawning by allowing the SL options on where he can place his rally, giving everyone the ability to revive rather than only medics and everyone can heal stamina..   Look at vehicles for instance.. there is never any consequence for leaving a vehicle on the field or losing a vehicle 90% of time they are a mode of transport to get from a to b their worth other than that is not recognised.  

 

Its like death by a thousand cuts... 

 

 

Squad isn't an accurate representation of being a soldier lol

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Self Raking Leaf said:

Squad isn't an accurate representation of being a soldier lol

 

I changed it just as you put that up...but if you want a discussion about it dont start 'lol' ing.....Ive taken the time to respond ..have the courtesy not to act like a ****.

Edited by embecmom

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Some people are forgetting Squad is still in Alpha, so this is the right moment to experiment and adjust. As Fuzz said, nothing is set in stone.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

Some people are forgetting Squad is still in Alpha, so this is the right moment to experiment and adjust. As Fuzz said, nothing is set in stone.

ah Alpha... the  game companies excuse for perpetually experimenting with players money...  This could be released tomorrow and they could still update it.. it doesnt need to remain in alpha to be changed..

Edited by embecmom

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17 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

We have received alot of feedback, and will be actively working on A14 based on this feedback, but also based on the adaptations the community makes while using new features.

We are hoping for a much shorter dev cycle with A14 as it wont involve a major engine upgrade, so things wont be locked in for so long, like A13.

 

Hi @fuzzhead thanks for your heads up. Probably this was the confusing part. After the v13 test-branch and the survey I expected OWI to post about the outcome and insights and may also add changes based on the feedback.

 

A public release so early for me as forum user was never in the picture. It seems v13 public doesnt include any changes it's just a more stable version of the test-branch. So you get feedback from a wider audience, right?

 

So maybe a short announcement and the reason behind your decision would have helped me and others to understand your actions better. Can't wait for a closer release cycle and v14. But in the meantime I'll be busy playing v13.

 

Thank you,

 

Mauti

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34 minutes ago, embecmom said:

I changed it just as you put that up...but if you want a discussion about it dont start 'lol' ing.....Ive taken the time to respond ..have the courtesy not to act like a ****.

lol

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41 minutes ago, Self Raking Leaf said:

lol

and there we have the depth of your ability to communicate ... good luck.

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1 hour ago, embecmom said:

ah Alpha... the  game companies excuse for perpetually experimenting with players money...  This could be released tomorrow and they could still update it.. it doesnt need to remain in alpha to be changed..

I wouldn't expect such radical and highly experimental changes to be added to a released game, ever. It would be ok to add new assets/factions/complementary features (commander?) after release 1.0, but overall gameplay should be stable.

Like it or not, this game is and will be in Alpha for as long as devs need it to be, better that than release it in an incomplete state like Post Scriptum did.

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5 hours ago, Thegreenzzz said:

Why do we all hate “casual bf apex CoD players” so much?

We don't "hate" anything. The important thing here is that there are hundreds of fast-paced arcade shooters on the market. If I wanted a more fast-paced "casual bf apex CoD" I would've bought one of those "casual bf apex CoD"s. Squad being advertised as a slower-paced more strategically-oriented teamwork-focused game is what made me choose this product over others. The market for these type of games, especially ones without glaring network issues and with a healthy playerbase, is scarce which is why people are upset when they sense that the product is careening away from what originally made it unique.

 

Think about it this way. Say you love Ethiopian food. There's one Ethiopian restaurant in your city and it's by far your favourite of all restaurants. Suddenly that restaurant starts only serving pizza. You don't have to hate pizza to be disappointed that you cannot buy Ehtiopian food anywhere anymore.

 

1 hour ago, Zenrique said:

Some people are forgetting Squad is still in Alpha, so this is the right moment to experiment and adjust. As Fuzz said, nothing is set in stone.

Alpha loses its meaning when you offer the software to the public and charge money for it. Squad as it's available now is not an alpha software in the traditional thinking of a software cycle. Especially in the gaming industry we've seen "alpha" reduced to nothing more than a naming convention. There are games that refer to a feature-complete demo version as "alpha" and times when developers have decided to scrap all progress and start again from scratch under the same "alpha" label.

 

Let me make it clear I'm not criticizing OI for lack of updates. It's very clear they've been continually developing the game further and releasing a steady stream of updates. That's not the issue. The issue is that what constitutes an "alpha" to them can only be judged in hindsight. Until a 1.0 release is out we cannot know how far along we are in the development cycle, if even then. That's why "alpha" should not be considered as anything other than a naming convention for version releases. Whether this is "Alpha v13" or "Version 1.3" is just semantics when the product is available to the general public.

 

If you have concerns over the direction the development is headed you absolutely should voice them, regardless how the current version is labeled.

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15 minutes ago, poika said:

Think about it this way. Say you love Ethiopian food. There's one Ethiopian restaurant in your city and it's by far your favourite of all restaurants. Suddenly that restaurant starts only serving pizza. You don't have to hate pizza to be disappointed that you cannot buy Ehtiopian food anywhere anymore.

But squad didn’t start serving pizzas, it’s still slow and steady

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5 minutes ago, Thegreenzzz said:

But squad didn’t start serving pizzas, it’s still slow and steady

And that's why I said "sense that the product is careening away from what originally made it unique."

 

Multiple updates in a row now have focused on increasing the pace of the game and lessening the importance of teamwork and the weight of strategic decisions. One time may be a fluke, but people are starting to sense a pattern in these recent updates they're not happy with. They might still be serving beef stew, but the lentils and chickpeas are gone from the menu.

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Squad is an innovative game created by a very talented group of artistic individuals not unlike John Carmack, John Romero and Warren Spector. People that are themselves true gamers and are passionate about creating something different. That much is true. I don't think anyone could argue with that.

 

Needless to say, across the timeline of the games development there has always been a rock solid core foundation of players. A couple of months ago there were actually two sequential days with exactly the same daily peaks. From a statistics standpoint that's virtually impossible and speaks volumes about the communities patience level.

 

That said, the core community isn't going anywhere especially over something as trite as sprint speed, buddy rally or no more instagibs. Devs could take a hot steamy dump on the core players keyboards and they'd simply brush it off and drop a rally in response. There will never be a  retention problem with these folks.

 

Notwithstanding, cleary across that same timeline the game has had a very serious new player retention problem. With over a million copies sold according to Forbes magazine and with daily peaks still hovering around 3000 this equals a 0.3% playership. That's extremely disappointing.

 

That brings us to the elephant in the room. Somehow there are over a million people who bought the game, most likely had a bad first impression and either refunded it or simply went on to play another game. So regardless of the reasons why this occurred its now time to instead focus on the future and figure out how do you get those folks back in the game. Does anyone really think that relatively insignificant tweaks to the gameplay within the bigger picture of the game will achieve that? I personally don't.

 

That said, Squad itself does have a PR problem but its not a Project Reality problem. Instead, its a "public relations" problem simply because over the entire process OWI has made the business choice to let external parties bear the financial burden of hosting the servers and basically be the ambassador's for the game. As time has shown this has clearly driven away a whole lot of game purchasers. You seriously can't blame this lack on playership on anything else because the game itself is a masterpiece.

 

OWI hosting official vanilla servers where a new player or perhaps a returning key holder can get a quality gaming experience unfettered by clan cronyism, favoritism,  supplemental rule sets and admin abuse is the only solution. This will grow the playership to around 10,000 daily peaks by summertime I predict. Anything less and the playership will flatline like it currently has.

 

And for God's sake, no more free weekends because that drives away as many or more people than it attracts.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, embecmom said:

At its core of course squad can still be played as the same game,  but the character you are playing has begun to get further away  from  imo a  representation of a soldier but a gamified one.

Well then, the game itself remains intact. Maybe v9.X was better than now in terms of realism, but I think v13 is still very proper (still requires thought, tactical ability) in its mechanics and improvements. Might just be the servers I play on, but generally there’s no lonewolfing, no one is sprinting around like a maniac holding down the trigger and rotating 360° (that I’ve seen, no guarantees...), and like I said before, the core player skill needs and in-squad communication are largely intact. The reckless rushing that some teams engage in is frustrating, but it seems the devs are working with that problem right now. Overall, this game still remains unlike any other FPS ever seen, save PR (maybe), as the core elements of Squad have stayed (and hopefully will stay) the same.

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Posted (edited)

 

Quote

 

Alpha loses its meaning when you offer the software to the public and charge money for it. Squad as it's available now is not an alpha software in the traditional thinking of a software cycle. Especially in the gaming industry we've seen "alpha" reduced to nothing more than a naming convention. There are games that refer to a feature-complete demo version as "alpha" and times when developers have decided to scrap all progress and start again from scratch under the same "alpha" label.

This has been discussed indefinately. Yes there are abuses of the Alpha term and of the process, but I dont think OWI is abusing the term. They have been following standard industry procedures applied to alpha projects up to now. The fact that the game looks complete doesnt mean it can be relegated as released, it is up to the product manager to decide.

Quote

Let me make it clear I'm not criticizing OI for lack of updates. It's very clear they've been continually developing the game further and releasing a steady stream of updates. That's not the issue. The issue is that what constitutes an "alpha" to them can only be judged in hindsight. Until a 1.0 release is out we cannot know how far along we are in the development cycle, if even then. That's why "alpha" should not be considered as anything other than a naming convention for version releases. Whether this is "Alpha v13" or "Version 1.3" is just semantics when the product is available to the general public.

Again, this is standard nomenclature and procedure for sofware products not complete or ready for a full release by some criteria at product owner's discretion.

Quote

 

If you have concerns over the direction the development is headed you absolutely should voice them, regardless how the current version is labeled.

Yes we should voice them, and I am not against it, I just disagree that OWI cant do some experiments at this point of development.

Edited by Zenrique

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13 hours ago, Tmac said:
  • Increased non-ADS standing movement speeds by 10%.
  • Adjusted 3P animation for movement speed.
  • Tweaked how ADS movement speeds work, so no matter which direction you go now you move at the same speed.
  • Shortened acceleration and deceleration speeds to make player movement a bit more responsive.

 

Thank you Devs for totally ruining Squad's soul (and also your vision ...)

 

Many have asked to decrease the speed (maybe trying a middle way? 5%) and go back to the old transitions - inertia - "momentum".

 

But I understand that you have to satisfy the "mass" ... that wants a more frenetic and immediate gameplay.

 

The increase in speed, the fastest transitions and the total lack of inertia of the soldier drastically changed the infantry gameplay. I completely lost the feeling I had with the old speed ... now it seems to me to play one of the thousand FPS that are around ... all the same for another. With super speed inevitably you lose cohesion between the squad , the single skill becomes much more important, the lone wolfing increases and the players dodge the bullets by  zig zag sprinting.

Playing in city maps, the perception of a more arcade game play is even greater. Sprint, stop, aim and snipe kill (all opts now) in a split second.

 

Infinite sadness about where the Devs want to go with their product ... I have always believed that their vision was the opposite.

 

But sales are sales
 

Thank you + 1000

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Posted (edited)

AK47 of Mil play 2 rounds firing sound in auto mode even when you fire 1 bullet need to be checked.

Edited by DesertTigerTR

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a 10% movement speed buff isn't a huge change you drama queens

imagine suffering "infinite sadness" because you run SLIGHTLY faster

the rally and permadeath changes are dumb but I imagine they won't be around for long

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Posted (edited)

What I really like and nobody seems to have lost a word about it yet is the new dense vegetation on Yeri. Awesome job @fuzzhead & co. Also the lightning updates look stunning.

 

@Hotpokkaminny 10% doesnt sound much, but putting enemies under fire at the end of a field in Yeri and yet half of their squad starts to run towards you zigzag lines in a blazing speed  is new and a game changer. But not for the better. 

 

After a few hours in v13 I have to say I dislike how player movement, pinning, and flanking already noticably changed. Maybe this is only during a transition period were everyone tries their new abilities but in general my full gear virtual soldier feels too lightweight and therefore somehow disconnected.

 

I'll get used to it but I really hope the change it back to pre v13, where Squad was more a walking than a racing simulator ;-)

Edited by Mauti

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Posted (edited)

Of course you hit some but also a few make it through by just running because they can cover much more distance in the same time. So instead of pinning an enemy down and make them to flank you or slowly crawling towards you they don't have to do this as much anymore.

Edited by Mauti

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