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Opinion Poll Medic & Revives

Would you prefer the continuation of the revive ability being available to all classes or, would you prefer a overhauled/improved medic class that regains its unique revive ability whilst still making a positive impact on the games momentum.  

67 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you prefer the continuation of the revive ability being available to all classes or, would you prefer a overhauled/improved medic class that regains its unique revive ability whilst still making a positive impact on the games momentum.

    • I prefer the continuation of the revive ability being available to all.
      39
    • No, I would prefer the medic class being only able to revive but with a overhaul/improvement.
      25
    • Neither, I preferred the old medic class revive system from v11 and before.
      3


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3 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

Never said that at all. It was a question on the medic role in general and definitely not directed at you otherwise I would of said.

 

During the Kickstarter Squad was going to have a more in depth medical system (it still might) and I don't feel it would make the role more enjoyable personally. Probably quite the opposite.

That's ok then because I wouldn't like anyone to be taking out of context. Especially when no-one had even brought it up. A topic for another time. Let's keep on subject. :) 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Quadro said:

I haven't seen that level of cooperation personally. Do you play on the US servers or Europe, just curious. 

Europe.

 

Also the thread is also about an overhauled/improved medic class is it not? It says that in your thread title. I would consider adding more triage abilities part of that.

Edited by Major Trouble

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

Europe.

 

Also the thread is also about an overhauled/improved medic class is it not? It says that in your thread title. I would consider adding more triage abilities part of that.

Overhaul/improved medic doesn't necessarily mean a realistic procedural medical system. Otherwise I would have said that.

 

The thread title says Opinion Poll Medic & Revives. I also posted my original post on here explaining along the lines of what I was talking about. Again, typical of a gaming forum, everything is taken out of context and twisted. Kinda getting fed up of posting on here. Never anything constructive is made.

 

 

Edited by Quadro

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Forums never go off topic or become passionate arguments about things of low importance....  9_9

I like to see other opinions and the various discussions around them because they trigger ideas.

 

I know what I want. I'll post about it and try to maintain pressure for what I want within this evolving game. Telling others what to think has been tried in religion and caused great harm, best to keep it all to personal opinions. :) 

 

If you get upset just remember that we are all AI here to waste your time :D

 

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9 hours ago, Quadro said:

I don't know if anyone else thinks in similar ways but wouldn't it be better if other classes didn't have to focus on part-time medic roles and focus on combat instead. I think having everyone revive was an attempt to increase momentum for the game and players in general however, if the medic was to have careful attention on it's core mechanics, quality of life and equipment improvements I think it'll add further appeal and depth to the Medic class and the 9-man squad dynamic. I'm rarely seeing medic classes played anymore and I'm not surprised. I'm also noticing that players are clicking give-up instantly when incapacitated. Why wait to be revived only to have to find a medic when you can just spawn in again....

 

Also, I've noticed myself that when I do play Medic, I don't commit myself to reviving others anymore as it's more of a risk to me trying to get to their location, when a teammate who is already MUCH closer by can do it for me. The irony in all this is that it's now risking the survivability of soldier having to revive the other player and as a whole from a 9 man Squad respective it's then putting everyone at risk not focusing on their main roles! and all this is essentially turning the medic into a heal terminal for others. Reviving altogether has been diluted and I think it's being lost because previously incapacitated players who have been revived by a non-medic have to put in half the leg work to get fixed up. It's much easier to click give-up. Most players don't even realise that a non-medic role player is on their way to revive them, either because they're in a separate squad or the risk of comms floating squad chat. I miss seeing a medic making his way over to you on the map, knowing full well someone is making a attempt to revive you AND knowing you'll be in 100% working order if the medic is successful. 

 

Rarely do I see in the end-game scoreboard medics having 15, 20, 25+ revives to their name anymore. Handing out the revive ability, I believe over the long term has impacted it negatively as the incentive to do so and as a result it has dwindled.

 

Medics weren't fun for most people because their mechanics created poor quality of life. I don't think anything has improved for the class. It played an important part to communication and cohesion of a Squad on their survivability and encouraged cooperation between players. It's an aspect that I believe has been lost on public games.  

 

I use to enjoy playing grenadier a lot, focusing on tasks at hand like clearing, continuing the push. Now though I'm constantly being stalled by someone crying out for help when I know it should be a medic that has me covered for that. Most medics get shot up now as there is no immediately direct need to play their role reasonably well, that and it's still not an attractive role to grab!

 

Generally speaking, having everyone revive has basically shifted the onus onto everyone and hasn't actually benefited Squad when some clever mechanics for the medic class could have saved a lot of the problems.

We obviously have different experiences, thus, so different conclusions.

 

First. You say now that now all the clases need to focus on healing and I don´tt think that´s the case. If anything, nobody (not even the medic) now has to focus on healing, since anybody can do it.

 

Secondly, maybe the only point in which we have similar experiences is that now, as a medic, you don´t focus on reviving. Well, I like that. First of all, because the scale of combat represented in squad only gives room for a COMBAT MEDIC. Basically, a trooper that is there to fight, who is Specially better than others at helping people survive. So it makes sense that now as a medic you aren´t as focused on healing people as before.

 

In previous versions medic was a pain in the ass. I used to play it a lot and there weren´t many responsable medics. People wanted to shoot things, not keep their heads down because they were the only able to revive. So that´s what they did, they went there shooting, and dying, and well, "both medics are down, respawn at hab" (My god I heard that phrase)

 

I see medic playing as much as before. If anything, I see more. Because now I don´t see any SL saying "XXX take the medic".  In v 11 I was actually kicked from a squad because I refused to take the medic (I had played medic for 2 previous rounds and I didn´t like it).

 

I do see medics get a very good number of revives. Such as 20+. I admit it´s more rare. But on the other hand, in a squad you have 15+ revives quite often. 

 

 

This is my conclusión and Why I like this way more.

 

The pre v12 paradigm was:

 

Squads are more durable as long as medics are alive.

 

Post V12 paradigm is:

 

Squads are more durable as long as they stick together.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

We obviously have different experiences, thus, so different conclusions.

 

First. You say now that now all the clases need to focus on healing and I don´tt think that´s the case. If anything, nobody (not even the medic) now has to focus on healing, since anybody can do it.

 

Secondly, maybe the only point in which we have similar experiences is that now, as a medic, you don´t focus on reviving. Well, I like that. First of all, because the scale of combat represented in squad only gives room for a COMBAT MEDIC. Basically, a trooper that is there to fight, who is Specially better than others at helping people survive. So it makes sense that now as a medic you aren´t as focused on healing people as before.

 

In previous versions medic was a pain in the ass. I used to play it a lot and there weren´t many responsable medics. People wanted to shoot things, not keep their heads down because they were the only able to revive. So that´s what they did, they went there shooting, and dying, and well, "both medics are down, respawn at hab" (My god I heard that phrase)

 

I see medic playing as much as before. If anything, I see more. Because now I don´t see any SL saying "XXX take the medic".  In v 11 I was actually kicked from a squad because I refused to take the medic (I had played medic for 2 previous rounds and I didn´t like it).

 

I do see medics get a very good number of revives. Such as 20+. I admit it´s more rare. But on the other hand, in a squad you have 15+ revives quite often. 

 

 

This is my conclusión and Why I like this way more.

 

The pre v12 paradigm was:

 

Squads are more durable as long as medics are alive.

 

Post V12 paradigm is:

 

Squads are more durable as long as they stick together.

Thank you for a comprehensive reply, really appreciate it! 

 

The irony in all this is I actually agree with pretty much to of all your points apart from one :P

 

Quote

First. You say now that now all the clases need to focus on healing and I don´tt think that´s the case. If anything, nobody (not even the medic) now has to focus on healing, since anybody can do it.

I understand what you're saying but it doesn't settle with me. "Nobody needs to focus on healing, since everybody has too... a little" is what I get from reading that :P. Everyone does need to focus on healing at some point, in some situations, sometimes more often than usual and not so much in others. It's true, reviving is less repetitive for the Medic class now. The onus of reviving has now been spread across the board but, I personally think there is a much better way to going about this.

 

I'm not suggesting anything convoluted here and neither am I suggesting a realistic comprehensive medical system that you would expect from a dedicated mil-sim. Neither am I suggesting that revive for everyone should be abolished. What I will say though is Pre v12 revive system had a very poor quality of life mechanics for the medics and that is what was the underlying problem to players not enjoying the Medic roll. It wasn't because no-one wanted to revive anyone, it was because it was such a chore to do so! It was very apparent no-one enjoyed keeping their head down for prolong periods of time to play juggles with their field dressing and heal bag, all whilst keeping your head down in the dirt feeling pretty vulnerable. It wasn't fun and Medics deserved a better piece of the action. Post v12 has moved the clumsy mechanic away from the Medic and put it onto others, it has, improved the Medics life because you don't have to do it so often. That doesn't mean that it wasn't flawed in the first place :)

 

Why wasn't there more effort put into the Medic's mechanics in interacting with injured and incapacitated players in the first place? Drastically improving the Medics quality of life.

 

A Medics Bag for example, could have covered both rolls of the Field Dressing and Heal Bag which would have eliminated 'juggling'. Instead of having to switch between the field dressing and heal bag back and fourth again. A medics bag would have done both jobs and would have been less clumsy.

 

A Kit for revive or defibrillator that could be placed near an incapacitated player would have eliminated the face down, watching red cross slowly turn to green element completely and  would have further made the Medic to being more of a Combat Medic. Now having the ability to place a revive kit down to do its work whilst you cover an protect with your gun or using Medic Bag allowing for multi tasking.

Edited by Quadro

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A dragging system where you can pull downed mates into cover would be nice and helps the medic a lot.
My experience is that even though everyone can revive the other classes quickly runs out of bandages and then needs the medic to stop bleedings and doing the revives. It would probably be better if players didnt used their last bandage to revive but saved it for themselves and let the medic do the revive. But too many players are impatient and rather give up than waits for the medic. People tends to forget that there often are a reason that they died where they did and that the guy that killed them is still there and needs to be dealt with..

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4 hours ago, Pluto is a planet said:

A dragging system where you can pull downed mates into cover would be nice and helps the medic a lot.
My experience is that even though everyone can revive the other classes quickly runs out of bandages and then needs the medic to stop bleedings and doing the revives. It would probably be better if players didnt used their last bandage to revive but saved it for themselves and let the medic do the revive. But too many players are impatient and rather give up than waits for the medic. People tends to forget that there often are a reason that they died where they did and that the guy that killed them is still there and needs to be dealt with..

+10

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Posted (edited)

How about this; 

 

The ability to drag downed players. Everyone can revive. However, when you stop bleeding / revive the resuscitated player will not be able to shoot, or do anything else for that matter, until a medic has given him / her some love? You're a limping, moaning, and groaning mess, kind of like the knocked out state in all the battle royale games?!

 

This should please both camps, right? You get shot and incapacitated. A team mate comes to your rescue. Now retreat back to the medic and have those wounds looked at before joining the fight, soldier. 

 

Edit; Also, it should take a regular grunt twice as long to stop bleeding / revive.

 

Edit 2; Reinstate instant death when downed a second time within a shorter time frame. 

Edited by PuddleMurda

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On 4/30/2019 at 4:35 AM, Smee said:

Can go with the revive by all it's the removal of the insta death that was a massive change for me personally.

This is pretty much the only aspect of V13 that I don't like at all. It makes the game feel like whack-a-6.022x10^23 instead of a hardcore shooter.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, PuddleMurda said:

How about this; 

 

The ability to drag downed players. Everyone can revive. However, when you stop bleeding / revive the resuscitated player will not be able to shoot, or do anything else for that matter, until a medic has given him / her some love? You're a limping, moaning, and groaning mess, kind of like the knocked out state in all the battle royale games?!

 

This should please both camps, right? You get shot and incapacitated. A team mate comes to your rescue. Now retreat back to the medic and have those wounds looked at before joining the fight, soldier. 

 

Edit; Also, it should take a regular grunt twice as long to stop bleeding / revive.

 

Edit 2; Reinstate instant death when downed a second time within a shorter time frame. 

 

I think partly the reason revival to all is now available is because it's one method of dealing with players avoiding the Medic role because of it's convoluted revival system that doesn't keep to speed with the rest of the momentum of the game. Essentially what post v12 has done is lesson the responsibility and moved it onto others. Players are clicking give-up quicker then ever now and introducing a further punishing mechanic to those that were previously incapacitated will only encourage players to click give-up further. It wouldn't please any side of the camp unfortunately.

 

I still don't understand why instant death has been removed. I genuinely believe it's an attempt to encourage revivals but it essentially has had very little impact. 

 

The essence and importance of revival was always reinforced by dedicated Medics pre v12 but the role lacked any quality of life that even the most dedicated team-players had to have a rest from the role once and awhile. The momentum of Squad has been increasing but the Medic has gradually been left to fall behind with its sluggish revival mechanics and terrible quality of life, that even 2 Medics couldn't support a 9-man squad anyway! It's a poor show if you ask me :P

Edited by Quadro

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Quadro said:

Players are clicking give-up quicker then ever now and introducing a further punishing mechanic to those that were previously incapacitated will only encourage players to click give-up further.

Well, let's keep encouraging the devs to continue down a generic arcade shooter path then. That's the solution!

 

When will you say enough? When you can spawn in attack helicopters and para jump into objectives, set rallies mid air, and unlock five kill streak strafing runs? Or will the same rhetoric be pushed then? 

 

"Players complain about the spawn delays on rallies, and instead of telling these hamsters (referring to the attention span) to go ask mommy for milk and cookies, we accept that we are now playing BF4 2.0: Titanfall"

 

If players are giving up left and right, not playing objectives, not listening to SL orders, not understanding the basics of the game, these players should change. NOT the game.

 

Why does everything in this world need to be dumbed down to a 12 year old's attention span and cognition? I can't for the life of me understand this devolving trend. 

 

You do realize the more of these casualizing implementations that does not receive major backlash from the community will lead to further degrading of the intricate and challenging features of the game?

 

This game is supposedly still in development, right? Already it's going down this road?! I thought we were testing the game? Or is early access just a moden day accepted scam? Who would have thought...

 

I know i hyperbole, but mark my words, you are actively supporting the change of direction in the development of "Squad - the spiritual successor to PR" towards a "Squad - The BF clone and new platform for the latest Battle Royale expansion pack". 

Edited by PuddleMurda

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, PuddleMurda said:

Well, let's keep encouraging the devs to continue down a generic arcade shooter path then. That's the solution!

 

When will you say enough? When you can spawn in attack helicopters and para jump into objectives, set rallies mid air, and unlock five kill streak strafing runs? Or will the same rhetoric be pushed then? 

 

"Players complain about the spawn delays on rallies, and instead of telling these hamsters (referring to the attention span) to go ask mommy for milk and cookies, we accept that we are now playing BF4 2.0: Titanfall"

 

If players are giving up left and right, not playing objectives, not listening to SL orders, not understanding the basics of the game, these players should change. NOT the game.

 

Why does everything in this world need to be dumbed down to a 12 year old's attention span and cognition? I can't for the life of me understand this devolving trend. 

 

You do realize the more of these casualizing implementations that does not receive major backlash from the community will lead to further degrading of the intricate and challenging features of the game?

 

This game is supposedly still in development, right? Already it's going down this road?! I thought we were testing the game? Or is early access just a moden day accepted scam? Who would have thought...

 

I know i hyperbole, but mark my words, you are actively supporting the change of direction in the development of "Squad - the spiritual successor to PR" towards a "Squad - The BF clone and new platform for the latest Battle Royale expansion pack". 

I can't see how me expressing the importance of improvements to the medic specifically has anything to do with generic arcade shooters. I'm not suggesting a Medic that goes round zapping everyone to full health if you tried to interpret my posts properly. They are quality of life improvements, not skips or easy mode. Simple but effective solutions that would allow the majority of players who play Squad, actually enjoy the Medic role more! and not because you have to revive less which v12 has currently introduced. 

 

I think I've already expressed that I stand in the middle ground when it comes to mil-sim and shooters. In fact I'm with you, the essence of the mil-sim characteristics of Squad is slowly disappearing and sure enough, if it carries on towards that direction, then the player count will flat-line. People always seem to freak out when momentum is mentioned, like someone is suggesting a gameplay flow more along the lines of Call Of Duty. Frankly, that just isn't the case. If the devs wanted to create something like that then they've certainly gone a backhanded approach.

 

Everyone in their right mind knows that momentum has been on the dev's agenda for awhile now (which does not mean Call Of Duty pace style but actually keeping to a medium or slow pace but not losing momentum. Which means keeping up momentum, hence the careful use of the word MOMENTUM, of course though, that has been completely taken out of context) . Some of the mechanics recently added  I consider quick fixes (if you want to call them that), and aren't really doing anything for the game. Like the removal of insta death, the buddy rally system and the all revive system (which this thread is specifically about). What I've been trying to get across is the very reason the medic is/has become less important and the complications it creates to people impulsively giving up which degrades teamwork. We have no dedicated revival class anymore, people have gone out of the habit of even considering there is someone to revive them. After all, why wait to be fully healed after a soldier has revived you when your rally wasn't too far in the first place. The whole system is flawed and it has everything to do with the Medic not being supplied with the correct quality of life improvements it so drastically has always needed!

 

The actual problem is there is ZERO compromise from hardcore mil-sim advocates that actually, as a result, none of their ideas or anyone elses for that matter get constructively built on these forums. Instead everyone creates an aneurysm talking about whats real and whats arcady. No wonder the devs go in blind sometimes.

 

I don't think anyone here for one second wants an arcade shooter. We want teamwork, immersion, flow, and what Squad does or should still be doing is producing that mil-sim flare because it IS it's unique selling point. 

Edited by Quadro

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never forget...fun

 

IMO teamwork is better with current system than with any previous.

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@Quadro

 

Touché! I do appreciate a well constructed counter argument to my flaming. Good work! 

 

22 hours ago, Quadro said:

The actual problem is there is ZERO compromise from hardcore mil-sim advocates that actually, as a result, none of their ideas or anyone elses for that matter get constructively built on these forums. Instead everyone creates an aneurysm talking about whats real and whats arcady. No wonder the devs go in blind sometimes.

 

I have tried too many times to suggest and paint the picture of features that in my mind would bring players together on the battlefield, to work more closely as an actual unit, without using game mechanics that feel "forced". Maybe not as much as I should have in the Squad forum, but in other "hardcore" shooter forums. 

 

I am almost always met with "That's not fuuuuuuuuun!!!!!" or "it would drive the player base away" without any actual arguments as to why. So I am getting more and more bitter.

 

You got a good post going here dude. I apologize for my hostile approach.

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It's like reading War & Peace. This is so simple. Today IRL you're the first person that comes across a heavily injured person thats rapidly losing blood. Do you A. Make a tourniquet out of your shirt and stop the bleeding or B. Tell them "Sorry, I'm not a trained medical professional, theres nothing I can do."?

 

The game is programmed correctly now.

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I'd rather it be a medic only thing.

 

OR..

 

A none-medic class has to use 2 bandages to revive. 1 bandage just stops bleed out(like it used to be.

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On 30/04/2019 at 10:36 PM, PuddleMurda said:

Medic revive only for me! Give others the ability to stop bleeding and drag downed players.

 

I haven't played new patch yet, but just hearing about this speed-, and stamina regeneration increase, combined with the removal of insta-death, makes me worried once again the devs are (like all "hardcore" shooter devs) continuously taking small steps towards a more generic, fast paced, arcade-style type of game. 

 

This is why I am always opposed any changes that aims to make a hardcore shooter more "accessible". Once you start giving in a little over here, you give in a little bit over there, and then just a little bit right there, and so on. Either you do it, or you don't. 

 

It's strange how the market is flooded with arcade style games, like literally thousands, but I can count the hardcore shooters that kind of live up to my expectations on half a hand... and even these games, Squad included, seem to head down a more and more casual path with every patch released. 

 

Are we (gamers who want brutally unforgiving and slow paced "tactical" experiences) a dying breed? I mean... if we were to represent only 1% of the market we are still a couple of million gamers (according to a quick google search on how many active gamers there are in the world). Isn't that enough? 

 

Well well.. we'll see how this turns out.

Nice murda

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Medic only revives with body dragging is ideal for me. Otherwise further decreased combat effectiveness until healed (blurred vision, erratic weapon sway, etc.). Insta-death timer I think should be replaced by overkill insta-death. If the player takes for instance 30 damage more than the damage to down them, they die. This means massive damage (e.g. high caliber headshots, Kobe frags) kill instantly, and revived players are particularly vulnerable until they are healed.

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