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Opinion Poll Medic & Revives

Would you prefer the continuation of the revive ability being available to all classes or, would you prefer a overhauled/improved medic class that regains its unique revive ability whilst still making a positive impact on the games momentum.  

67 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you prefer the continuation of the revive ability being available to all classes or, would you prefer a overhauled/improved medic class that regains its unique revive ability whilst still making a positive impact on the games momentum.

    • I prefer the continuation of the revive ability being available to all.
      39
    • No, I would prefer the medic class being only able to revive but with a overhaul/improvement.
      25
    • Neither, I preferred the old medic class revive system from v11 and before.
      3


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Posted (edited)

v12 made quite a substantial change by allowing everyone to revive to increase survivability of a squad and hopfully have a positive impact of the overall momentum of Squad.

 

I would like to hear your opinion on whether you preferred these changes or whether you would have preferred an alternative. 

 

I'm trying to keep my first post not opinionated and would prefer to see what everyone else is feeling? Let us all know!

 

 

Edited by Quadro

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Can go with the revive by all it's the removal of the insta death that was a massive change for me personally.

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Posted (edited)

I like the V12 way, you can get your buddy up but it will take time and he'll be less effective untill treated by a medic. Keep your head down for +1min or you'll be send back to Valhalla.

 

Could change the minute timer for insta death to treatment by a medic, if you want to make medics even more important.

You can get revived by anyone but if after you don't get treated by a medic, it's death death, regardless of time.

Edited by oTec

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, oTec said:

I like the V12 way, you can get your buddy up but it will take time and he'll be less effective untill treated by a medic. Keep your head down for +1min or you'll be send back to Valhalla.

 

I'm in the opinion that you're actually making two combat classes less effective whilst both are involved in the revive process. When you could have back the dedicated medic class but with far better performance in his field with some clever shortcuts without breaking immersion.

 

Here is a suggestion I put up before v12 was released. I don't expect anyone to read all through it. I'm just quite passionate about the medic class and I can't see me ever playing the class again in it's current form.

 

 

 

Edited by Quadro

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Being able to revive with every class means no one will take the medic class. I witness it every time I play as a squadleader. I'd rather like a feature to give others your bandages and ammo. 

So you would always depend on more tactical behaviour.

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Resurrection belongs to the Medic and the Medic only. My vote is to go back to the original realistic way.

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The medic needs to be more effective in combat if it is to be used, in my opinion. Getting stuck with an M4/M68 isn’t very advantageous unless there’s close-quarters combat occurring, and even then it’s still not super effective. Adding more weapon options like in the playtest might fix it. Otherwise, I think the medic/revive system is good as is.

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Resurrection belongs to the Medic and the Medic only. My vote is to go back to the original realistic way.

Realistic, ha!

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Medic revive only for me! Give others the ability to stop bleeding and drag downed players.

 

I haven't played new patch yet, but just hearing about this speed-, and stamina regeneration increase, combined with the removal of insta-death, makes me worried once again the devs are (like all "hardcore" shooter devs) continuously taking small steps towards a more generic, fast paced, arcade-style type of game. 

 

This is why I am always opposed any changes that aims to make a hardcore shooter more "accessible". Once you start giving in a little over here, you give in a little bit over there, and then just a little bit right there, and so on. Either you do it, or you don't. 

 

It's strange how the market is flooded with arcade style games, like literally thousands, but I can count the hardcore shooters that kind of live up to my expectations on half a hand... and even these games, Squad included, seem to head down a more and more casual path with every patch released. 

 

Are we (gamers who want brutally unforgiving and slow paced "tactical" experiences) a dying breed? I mean... if we were to represent only 1% of the market we are still a couple of million gamers (according to a quick google search on how many active gamers there are in the world). Isn't that enough? 

 

Well well.. we'll see how this turns out.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Resurrection belongs to the Medic and the Medic only. My vote is to go back to the original realistic way.

I´m sorry but I don´t think the same way. For 2 reasons.

 

First of all, the "realistic" aspect. In combat, a medic would mainly fill two functions.

 

1- Increase the moral of the troop (even if a medic knows that he can´t vsomebody shot through the femoral arery in the battlefield, everybody is happier when there´s a medic around. And more willing to fight. That´s Why medics are usually popular characters around a unit)

 

2- When they can do something, keep combat effectiveness of the unit. But sometimes, it´s only posible to stabilize a wonded man to send him home. That man is now stable, but can´t keep fighting. So the medic has done his duty and the wounded player needs an med-evac and that´s it.

This is an aspect I don´t imagine applied to Squad, and I don´t really see how the community would want this in the game.

 

And on the other hand we have the gameplay.

 

On one hand, when medics where the only ones able to revive people, nobody played the role correctly. I had many arguments about it. When medics are the only one able to revive a downed teammate, whoever is playing the medic HAS TO KEEP HIS HEAD DOWN, AND DON´T ENGAGE. that IS THE MOST USEFULL WAY TO PLAY THE MEDIC with those rules. But this isn´t a popular way to play for most of the community.

In the previous versions people playing the medic didn´t want to accept the responsibility that came with it and kept engaging and dying as a regular rifleman. Making the medic role a bit redundant.

 

One would think that it´s the opposite. That medics would be redundant when anybody can revive. But I think it isn´t. The medic role now allows players more freedom. They dont have that burden in their shoulders being the only one that can revive, but still, they have...

 

1- more bandages than anybody else (by far)

2- The unique ability to bring people back to 100% combat effectiveness. We all know how annoying it is to be fighting with a depleted stamina bar and a slightly more obscured screen. And on top of that the added weapon Sway. We all need a medic next to us then.

Edited by Nightingale87

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

I´m sorry but I don´t think the same way. For 2 reasons.

 

First of all, the "realistic" aspect. In combat, a medic would mainly fill two functions.

 

1- Increase the moral of the troop (even if a medic knows that he can´t vsomebody shot through the femoral arery in the battlefield, everybody is happier when there´s a medic around. And more willing to fight. That´s Why medics are usually popular characters around a unit)

 

2- When they can do something, keep combat effectiveness of the unit. But sometimes, it´s only posible to stabilize a wonded man to send him home. That man is now stable, but can´t keep fighting. So the medic has done his duty and the wounded player needs an med-evac and that´s it.

This is an aspect I don´t imagine applied to Squad, and I don´t really see how the community would want this in the game.

 

And on the other hand we have the gameplay.

 

On one hand, when medics where the only ones able to revive people, nobody played the role correctly. I had many arguments about it. When medics are the only one able to revive a downed teammate, whoever is playing the medic HAS TO KEEP HIS HEAD DOWN, AND DON´T ENGAGE. that IS THE MOST USEFULL WAY TO PLAY THE MEDIC with those rules. But this isn´t a popular way to play for most of the community.

In the previous versions people playing the medic didn´t want to accept the responsibility that came with it and kept engaging and dying as a regular rifleman. Making the medic role a bit redundant.

 

One would think that it´s the opposite. That medics would be redundant when anybody can revive. But I think it isn´t. The medic role now allows players more freedom. They dont have that burden in their shoulders being the only one that can revive, but still, they have...

 

1- more bandages than anybody else (by far)

2- The unique ability to bring people back to 100% combat effectiveness. We all know how annoying it is to be fighting with a depleted stamina bar and a slightly more obscured screen. And on top of that the added weapon Sway. We all need a medic next to us then.

 

I think the reason the medic wasn't played much was because of its poor quality of life and not so much to do with the medics responsibility. I imagine there are some hardcore medic fans that did enjoy spending all their time lying down reviving players but I'm certain that most players didn't. I think there is a far better way to reintroducing the Medic class where people don't feel so restricted without damaging IMMERSION. 

 

The problem with referring to realism for a basis of any side of the argument, is that where does it stop? When someone suggests realism aspects to be implemented the counter argument is that a medic should be sitting in his medic tent because that's where he is 80% of the time. That was just an example. Same goes with any aspect of the game, literally, any aspect.

 

Immersion is far more an important word. Does it FEEL right. Squad is a mil-sim / shooter, trying to draw from some of the best features of both genres. Indeed the Medic class is redundant, even more than ever. Only difference being is that it's still the last class to be picked but, people don't mind it so much because they don't have to revive all the time and that's it. It's nothing but a glorified rifleman that can heal others to full health. The whole revive system is generally very poor, it's unimaginative in it's functionality and greatly introduces poor quality of life, especially for the medic and even more so before v12, that's why no-one played it. The whole revive process is clunky and unintuitive, no wonder no-one wanted to play medic.

 

Where is the compromise though? The mil-sim guys want realism whilst the shooter types want fluidity etc There has been zero compromise between fans of the game and any creative thinking regarding the medic, as a result it has been incredibly poor generally speaking.

 

I'm more for immersion and fluidity, taking from both worlds because that's what Squad is suppose to be all about. I feel like the Medic has been left at a loose end, the knot could have been tidied up far better than it currently is.

 

I'm afraid the devs were very lazy on this one (or they have a trick up their sleeves still), it was a very poor attempt for just a quick fix.

Edited by Quadro

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34 minutes ago, Quadro said:

It's nothing but a glorified rifleman that can heal others to full health.

The same could be said about a LAT or HAT or the incoming CE if there’s nothing to blow up. Each kit has a special role in a squad or platoon, but first and foremost everyone is a combatant in an infantry-focused battle.

   I also think that the medic is a little more purposeful than some of the other aforementioned roles. The inability to walk or see anything five meters in front of you makes the medic almost a necessity, even if SLs often leave them out. What do you think the fix for the medic system would be?

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1 hour ago, Quadro said:

 

I think the reason the medic wasn't played much was because of its poor quality of life and not so much to do with the medics responsibility. I imagine there are some hardcore medic fans that did enjoy spending all their time lying down reviving players but I'm certain that most players didn't. I think there is a far better way to reintroducing the Medic class where people don't feel so restricted without damaging IMMERSION. 

I didn´t say it wasn´t played. I said it wasn´t played effectively / right.

 

In fact. It was more often to see a squad with 2 medics tan it is now. Since everybody can revive, one is enough to patch people up.

 

1 hour ago, Quadro said:

 

The problem with referring to realism for a basis of any side of the argument, is that where does it stop? When someone suggests realism aspects to be implemented the counter argument is that a medic should be sitting in his medic tent because that's where he is 80% of the time. That was just an example. Same goes with any aspect of the game, literally, any aspect.

 

I said something like 

 

"the most realistic and fun experience playable between 30 mins and 2 hours." That´s where it could stop.

 

Is it fun?

Does it ressemble something that would happen in the battlefield?

can it be played between 30 mins and 90 mins?...

 

that´s just a guideline (which I think devs are following and a big part of the community want to see)

1 hour ago, Quadro said:

Only difference being is that it's still the last class to be picked 

Not in my experience. (specially if v13 gives him a scope)

 

1 hour ago, Quadro said:

I. It's nothing but a glorified rifleman that can heal others to full health. 

Being revived to FULL HEALTH (no Sway, 100% stamina, + full healthbar, light clear screen) is a big deal the way I see it.

 

1 hour ago, Quadro said:

Where is the compromise though? The mil-sim guys want realism whilst the shooter types want fluidity etc There has been zero compromise between fans of the game and any creative thinking regarding the medic, as a result it has been incredibly poor generally speaking.

PROBABLY because in the aspect of combat recreated by squad it would be more realistic NOT TO HAVE A MEDIC AT ALL (im just thinking out loud here.)

 

1 hour ago, Quadro said:

I'm afraid the devs were very lazy on this one (or they have a trick up their sleeves still), it was a very poor attempt for just a quick fix.

I think they have a lot to deal with and they ended up with the most similar mechanic to PR posible without exchanging KIT (that was discussed some time ago. Look for epipen revive or sth like that)

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19 hours ago, PuddleMurda said:

Medic revive only for me! Give others the ability to stop bleeding and drag downed players.

 

I haven't played new patch yet, but just hearing about this speed-, and stamina regeneration increase, combined with the removal of insta-death, makes me worried once again the devs are (like all "hardcore" shooter devs) continuously taking small steps towards a more generic, fast paced, arcade-style type of game. 

 

This is why I am always opposed any changes that aims to make a hardcore shooter more "accessible". Once you start giving in a little over here, you give in a little bit over there, and then just a little bit right there, and so on. Either you do it, or you don't. 

 

It's strange how the market is flooded with arcade style games, like literally thousands, but I can count the hardcore shooters that kind of live up to my expectations on half a hand... and even these games, Squad included, seem to head down a more and more casual path with every patch released. 

 

Are we (gamers who want brutally unforgiving and slow paced "tactical" experiences) a dying breed? I mean... if we were to represent only 1% of the market we are still a couple of million gamers (according to a quick google search on how many active gamers there are in the world). Isn't that enough? 

 

Well well.. we'll see how this turns out.

You make some very good points. From a pvp standpoint there really isn't even a truly MilSim game on the market anyway. Its pretty much an untapped market when it comes to pvp realistic military AAS shooters. Some people could say "what about Arma 3?" but the only real pvp scene in that game is mostly just a handful of TKOTH servers and not only is it basically a just an Arcade meatgrinder but its majorly toxic as well.

 

I've always said if Squad went fully realistic it would be a wildly successful franchise but as a MilSim/Arcade hybrid basically in a constant war with itself because often times the elements of each paradigm cancel each other out it will never stand out, let alone compete in the crowded military fps marketplace.

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On 5/1/2019 at 6:44 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

Some people could say "what about Arma 3?"

Don't get me wrong, I love Arma 3, but they have 3rd person perspective available and 99% of the people playing are playing with this abomination of a feature. As a 1st person perspective player I would never (and I mean never ever to infinity and beyond) play a 3rd person multiplayer shooter, so I've got about three servers to choose between when I play Arma 3, since I do not spend enough time in front of the computer to join communities or whatnot. 

Like you say, the toxicity level on those servers are at a level where the UN should step in. First thing I do when I join a server is to mute VON. 

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I posted about better medics ages ago and am of the view that it's best when medics alone can revive. 

 

Equally, if it must stay this way, I think the difference between a medic revive and grunt revive should be far more pronounced.. so that the revived person is vaguely mobile but really pretty useless entirely in combat, maybe even unable to fight. That way, your buddy helping you prevents you dying but really it exists to enable the medic to get you properly treated  without always having to expose themselves. 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I think the difference between a medic revive and grunt revive should be far more pronounced.. 

I agree with that part. Maybe darker screen, weird "underwater" sound or beeping in ears, Simulatting "dizzines" many thinkgs can be done.

 

I want it to stay this way with more difference between medic revive and grunt revive.

Edited by Nightingale87

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i often think that death is better than zero stamina...

medic system is good as at a12 a13.0

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I would like to say Medic only but that resulted in no one revived the medic and that was tedious especially if you were the only medic in the squad.

 

I stay with everyone can revive except there is a possibility the swap roles/kits with a downed player.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, TheRed said:

I posted about better medics ages ago and am of the view that it's best when medics alone can revive. 

 

Equally, if it must stay this way, I think the difference between a medic revive and grunt revive should be far more pronounced.. so that the revived person is vaguely mobile but really pretty useless entirely in combat, maybe even unable to fight. That way, your buddy helping you prevents you dying but really it exists to enable the medic to get you properly treated  without always having to expose themselves. 

 

I like your thinking. I'm also of the opinion that Medics alone should be the only ones to revive however..... if it must stay the way it is, then perhaps the medic can be far more sufficient at it, and I don't mean just being faster at reviving. 

 

Currently when reviving someone you're at a pretty useless vulnerable state, medic or grunt. Perhaps this can stay for grunts as its still kinda used as a last resort to revive your teammates as a grunt....but what if the medic's equipment allows him to not have such a hard time reviving like the others?

 

Instead of the Medic having field dressings, why doesn't he have a Medic Bag which heals AND stems bleeds (using just left-click, right-click fixes yourself) so he doesn't have to switch between his heal bag and field dressings every time. For reviving he has a Revive kit that he places down and attaches it on the incapacitated (like a defibrillator), it charges up and revives the soldier all whilst the medic has his gun out and moving about which others soldiers can't do. He could also be healing or steming bleeds of other soldiers with his Medic Bag whilst also reviving at the same time. 

 

 

Edited by Quadro

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Posted (edited)

I don't know if anyone else thinks in similar ways but wouldn't it be better if other classes didn't have to focus on part-time medic roles and focus on combat instead. I think having everyone revive was an attempt to increase momentum for the game and players in general however, if the medic was to have careful attention on it's core mechanics, quality of life and equipment improvements I think it'll add further appeal and depth to the Medic class and the 9-man squad dynamic. I'm rarely seeing medic classes played anymore and I'm not surprised. I'm also noticing that players are clicking give-up instantly when incapacitated. Why wait to be revived only to have to find a medic when you can just spawn in again....

 

Also, I've noticed myself that when I do play Medic, I don't commit myself to reviving others anymore as it's more of a risk to me trying to get to their location, when a teammate who is already MUCH closer by can do it for me. The irony in all this is that it's now risking the survivability of soldier having to revive the other player and as a whole from a 9 man Squad respective it's then putting everyone at risk not focusing on their main roles! and all this is essentially turning the medic into a heal terminal for others. Reviving altogether has been diluted and I think it's being lost because previously incapacitated players who have been revived by a non-medic have to put in half the leg work to get fixed up. It's much easier to click give-up. Most players don't even realise that a non-medic role player is on their way to revive them, either because they're in a separate squad or the risk of comms floating squad chat. I miss seeing a medic making his way over to you on the map, knowing full well someone is making a attempt to revive you AND knowing you'll be in 100% working order if the medic is successful. 

 

Rarely do I see in the end-game scoreboard medics having 15, 20, 25+ revives to their name anymore. Handing out the revive ability, I believe over the long term has impacted it negatively as the incentive to do so and as a result it has dwindled.

 

Medics weren't fun for most people because their mechanics created poor quality of life. I don't think anything has improved for the class. It played an important part to communication and cohesion of a Squad on their survivability and encouraged cooperation between players. It's an aspect that I believe has been lost on public games.  

 

I use to enjoy playing grenadier a lot, focusing on tasks at hand like clearing, continuing the push. Now though I'm constantly being stalled by someone crying out for help when I know it should be a medic that has me covered for that. Most medics get shot up now as there is no immediately direct need to play their role reasonably well, that and it's still not an attractive role to grab!

 

Generally speaking, having everyone revive has basically shifted the onus onto everyone and hasn't actually benefited Squad when some clever mechanics for the medic class could have saved a lot of the problems.

Edited by Quadro

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because everyone has the ability to revive i find that if they dont do the actual revive they are more willing to stick around and cover while someone else does it.

 

When it was medic only revives it was more like...I cant help you dude, bye. 

Now there tend to be small groups together in areas with cover.

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As someone who regularly plays the medic role I can't say I have seen any more or less uptake of the role since the v12 changes (not played v13 yet). SLs still have to request players to take the role just as they did before. I actually like the 'everybody can revive' change as it means I am not spending all my time reviving and healing and I don't feel that diminishes the role as the healing aspect is still an very important one. All the stated 'problems' with the changes like players giving up etc are due to other game dynamics and not really the revive changes.

 

Do I want to see the medic have to perform various medical procedures to heal up a revived player to make the role more realistic / immersive? Not really as I am mainly needed to help keep the squad/team fighting fit and rolling forward and don't want to get bogged down with all that depth even if that seems a little casual.

 

I have noticed, and as @suds noted, players are much more likely to hang around and give cover when asked.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

Do I want to see the medic have to perform various medical procedures to heal up a revived player to make the role more realistic / immersive? Not really as I am mainly needed to help keep the squad/team fighting fit and rolling forward and don't want to get bogged down with all that depth even if that seems a little casual.

I want quite the opposite to realism when it comes to medical procedures. I don't know where you got the idea that I wanted medical procedures. I think you might be landing me into the stereotypical type that would like a comprehensive system. I don't, in fact what I'm suggesting would just improve quality of life and the sufficiency of the medic role which would have general good impact on the Squad whether other roles kept their revives or not.

 

Quote

I have noticed, and as @suds noted, players are much more likely to hang around and give cover when asked.

 I haven't seen enough of that level of cooperation personally. Do you play on the US servers or Europe, just curious. 

Edited by Quadro

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2 minutes ago, Quadro said:

I don't know where you got the idea that I wanted medical procedures.

Never said that at all. It was a question on the medic role in general and definitely not directed at you otherwise I would of said.

 

During the Kickstarter Squad was going to have a more in depth medical system (it still might) and I don't feel it would make the role more enjoyable personally. Probably quite the opposite.

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