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V13 Optics

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Why everyone in V13 has an optic? Idk doesn't seem proper, if you want them to be able to see further just let us lower the FOV back to 80. Medic w/ optic, Grenadier w/ Optic (Idk how we are going to use the m203 with the acog). Is the game becoming r6s, like get the thing with the highest zoom and just w8 for the enemy?

Edited by battlecator

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There are plenty of ways to counter optics with iron sights. While they might have the advantage in longer ranges, iron sights are better at close quarter combat, which is what a lot of the objectives have plenty of.

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5 hours ago, Hotpokkaminny said:

that's how it was in PR and also how it is in real life

never played PR, if that's how it was sure why not

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Squad's balance works in different ways than most games. It's supposed to be kind of unbalanced, balanced out by ticket count, speed, different tactics etc... On Al Basrah, the insurgents can lock down all bridges, and cut off supply lines by blowing up logistics trucks behind the lines. This is their best way to win against the OP British forces, who mostly have optics, and heavy vehicles.

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On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 2:09 AM, battlecator said:

Why everyone in V13 has an optic? Idk doesn't seem proper, if you want them to be able to see further just let us lower the FOV back to 80. Medic w/ optic, Grenadier w/ Optic (Idk how we are going to use the m203 with the acog). Is the game becoming r6s, like get the thing with the highest zoom and just w8 for the enemy?

I don't care about everyone having optics except for the insurgents. In Project Reality when its conventional vs conventional everyone has a scope but can choose iron sight ALT. The only kits without a scope are the combat engineer kit sometimes for some factions. Some factions naturally have iron sights for some kits like Israeli Defense Forces NEGEV automatic rifleman has iron sights or the French/Canadian machine gun having Iron sights. For insurgents in Project Reality the only kits that had scopes were marksmen, sniper, spotter and anti-personnel claymore kit. That's how it should stay for Squad.

 

The developers should acknowledge new players to Mil Sim will not like or know how to fight enemy with scopes using iron sights, so they should give procedures and tips.. They should make demonstrations on how its done to every detail. Problem with most people is they come from games like Call Of Duty, which everyone has played at some point. If you play too much COD the repetitiveness of spawn, sprint, don't think, die has a forever lasting effect that's hard to break. You stand in the open too much, even if you are "safe" in the moment you will eventually get shot due to not being aware of this concept. You expect enemy to show themselves, you expect enemy to look obvious(not like a dot) even when they do show themselves, you expect them in the open. COD causes people to think about more in the moment rather than the future, like for example a COD style FPS player will sprint in Squad past a good location with lots of cover instead of waiting there for enemy to show up.

 

The developers could send new players to my survival tips or survival playlist called "Squad v12 and Project Reality 1.5 teamwork" playlist to teach these new players the skills needed. I call the playlist the "Civilian Instant Elite" program because it teaches in detail all the skills needed to survive that I put into orders work. Fighting against scopes with iron sights is fun. Its really just a lot of shooting and moving making the enemy look somewhere that you just were. Basically making the enemy look where you want them to. Most people wont survive before using all their ammo, so we need to encourage ammo usage and re-supply. You don't survive long enough to use your ammo, you use your ammo to survive long enough. Like with scopes, assume you are seen then move by going around and behind cover, literally moving back if needed to go around out of sight and enter new position from back out of sight.

Edited by Grump/Gump.45

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4 hours ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

Squad's balance works in different ways than most games. It's supposed to be kind of unbalanced, balanced out by ticket count, speed, different tactics etc... On Al Basrah, the insurgents can lock down all bridges, and cut off supply lines by blowing up logistics trucks behind the lines. This is their best way to win against the OP British forces, who mostly have optics, and heavy vehicles.

Guan, aside from doing those minor things to win, which doesn't take the whole team to lock down bridges or take out logistics... but when I was commanding insurgents everyday in Project Reality the way we won was by fighting like insurgents. Using deterrent far ambush fire aimed out at the height of a man, shooting before they even looked like dots. Putting RPGs in places of cover within the ground or buildings. Responding to perimeter breaches with close quarters combat and the continued long range ambush to support the CQC from a different direction while watching other directions. Putting IEDs in trash in spots where no reasonable friendly would walk or survive getting to by himself. Fighting like insurgents wins these games, cutting off supplies is easy if the enemy keeps taking same route. Its the way each individual shoots, moves, camouflages himself and every method to manipulate enemy. I hate when people have iron sights waiting to see individual enemy even through binocs. Those shots where people take time to aim should happen 5% of the time outside of CQC, always try to hit them if you can but focus on suppression at height of a man. This gets me and many others random kills.

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I've never had a problem countering optics in Squad. They may be the most versatile loadout but if you play to the strengths of your class they don't have to dominate. The unconventional forces get fast vehicles to put them in ambush positions that can force close range engagements around the cap zone. Smokes and smoke mortars can allow you to close the distance if you're on the offensive. Long-range explosives can take out snipers from an off-angle. Sure, optics provide the simplest advantage but they're by no means insurmountable. They get fewer grenades, hampering their ability to clear buildings and entrenched positions. It's all a give and take and I think OWI's done a good job balancing the factions and classes. 

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I've never had a problem using the iron sights. In fact in some instances like the RPK's I think having an iron sight is an advantage not a detriment. If you have optics it's almost like you have tunnel vision. With an AR like the RPK you are trying to cover a wide area. In close range the optics are a HUGE detriment. I've had no problems hitting consistently out to 200m and sometimes longer using iron sights. I learned to shoot on the range with iron sights so they are very natural for me. Just go to the range and practice with them, you start to like them a lot at short to medium ranges. Also when you take upgraded optics in squad you always give something up. Either a grenade, full auto ability or some other very useful piece of kit, there's always a trade off. For example on the close range type maps I usually go with the Red dot M4 with the full auto capability instead of the ACOG, it's more suitable for the mission parameters and AOE. For the insurgents a lot of the optic options include an SKS with a PSO scope which is great at long range, has a 7.62x39 cartridge which does slightly more damage than a 5.54x39, however you're giving up a lot. You're giving up a full auto assault rifle with a 30 round mag to a semi-auto only fed by a 10 round stripper clip. While loading the SKS is super easy with stripper clips, I've owned one, you still only have 10 rounds on tap instead of 30, plus when zoomed in you have no peripheral vision. I think the balance is very well done. In the Canadian Army ALL the frontline normal infantry C7's come with an ELCAN optic. You know, that OP optic they sometimes put on the M240? It's on everything. In fact if the US side didn't have some sort of optic on each of the weapons it would be very weird. What would they say? "Hi sorry we bought a bunch of $10,000 hammers and $500 toilet seats in Iraq so we have to give you a Vietnam era M16A1's with iron sights. We can't afford to give you guys optics. Sorry guys,  better luck next time". It would be just weird. Almost every modern army has optics on their rifles, some like the L85, or Steyr AUG, have them built into the rifle, since the 70's. The only people that wouldn't have iron sights is armoured crewman as the sight would be too bulky inside an armoured vehicle.

Edited by tmpwhore

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