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gshAT

Ping or No Ping

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Posted (edited)

I would like to start a discussion on the Map-Ping feature and try to understand the different views on it and why so many people actually like the removal of it.

 

I am SLing most of the time and i really appreciated this feature for following reasons:

- Its easy to call out GRIDS, but hard to FIND them

When i hover over the map i can see the grids on the bottom left.

When i have to find them as SL i actually really have to follow the actual GRIDS to find the Location. Someone called it "Grid-Hunting".

 

While its complicating communication in general again in a game which is about communication which kinda is absurd, its further on complicating the Life of a SL and the SL only. I know most of you feel that the SL has too less to do and is generally a very unchallenging Role in Squad but im not too sure about this.

A lot of comments also on reddit were, that most SLs will thank you for removing the PING-Feature because all the "Enemy on my Ping" Calls will dissapear.

But now all those calls will be the same, only with GridCoordinates.

Filtering now the useful from the useless information will again be harder for the SLs. Not the Callers.

 

A lot comments also were that SQUAD is about Communication.

Ping was also kind of a Communication. Its not like someone could mark the enemy on its own for the whole team.

 

Only downside of PING-Feature imo is that it might discouraged people to communicate in a way like "100m West of Rally" but not too sure about it and this wont change if its as easy to mousehover over position and just readout the coordinates.

 

 

Edited by gshAT

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1 hour ago, gshAT said:

"100m West of Rally"

Solved. :)

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I kinda agree with OP. It is still a game, and that in it self sets certain limitations to to the players to the environment they are in.

 

I agree its not realistic in anyway, I consider it a trade of. In real life it would be soldiers trained in both communication and visual observation and not random pubs thrown together who goes, "enemy100 meters north of X" and the gauging distances in a game is quite different from a flat 2d screen.

 

The game still contains certain helpful features, because it is a game. In real life I would know how the voice of my squadmates sound and would not need a neat little txt to tell me who is currently speaking, same goes for SL channel. IRL anyone who would have the position to use the radio would be educated in proper radio use and there would not be need for the number of the Squad to neatly be written.

 

Game vs reality has some limitations in case of perception,and I think its fine to leave some features in, that helps with the fact that its a random bunch of players who often gets thrown together to play.

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Posted (edited)

while you are right imo with alot what you say

 

7 hours ago, Jevski said:

I agree its not realistic in anyway

 

Are you sure about this?

Are you sure that some squads in RL are not equipped at least with some kind of gps display and get some information from satellites or UAVs in real time? Is it really too unrealistic that this already is happening in actual conflict zones? Im not too sure but im not a real soldier but i doubt that it would take too  long that at least some units would have  exactly features like this. Including Pinging a part of map? Could imagine if its not official right now that some units work at least with a smartphone app. but maybe im going to far here

 

Edited by gshAT

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"100m North of rally, where the ditch intersects the road"

 

No ping needed and people familiar with the area (lots of people) will know exactly the location without opening the map.

 

"tank moving north from attack flag, looks like it is moving toward our defence. it just passed the tower."

there is no place for a ping in this description

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The only pings I like are in ping pong and the ping DOS command, not in my tactical shooters.

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On 4/18/2019 at 4:02 AM, gshAT said:

I would like to start a discussion on the Map-Ping feature and try to understand the different views on it and why so many people actually like the removal of it.

"Different views"? I thought there was only one reason for its removal because it was being glitched/exploited... Other than that it seemed pretty benign to me.

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In my opinion with the current state of info in the map, I prefer the PING. It´s quite useful and replaces the simple act of pointing with your finger toward a position in the landscape or in a map.  Something we cannot do in the game.

 

On the other hand I would love to see something many people wouldnt tolerate because its "too realistic" and this "has to be a game", and that is, the only visible info you get on the map is your position and your sl´s position. And sl´s also get to see other Sl´s positions. (you can also see fobs and flags). I´d love to see somehting like this implemented, if only as a game mod or a one life event.

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@Nightingale87 It requires the audience to open their map. This is not acceptable.

A good callout should be obvious without needing to open the map or be made using the map. eg "...North of the triangle field..."

regular use of this type of callout is great for everyone, the pings had a negative impact on the quality of communication.

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10 hours ago, suds said:

@Nightingale87 It requires the audience to open their map. This is not acceptable.

A good callout should be obvious without needing to open the map or be made using the map. eg "...North of the triangle field..."

regular use of this type of callout is great for everyone, the pings had a negative impact on the quality of communication.

I don´t think it made communication worse...

 

I do think that it made it less realistic in a way. 

 

On the other hand, if you move with a Decent squad even in public games, ping is just a part of current communication, not all of it, and only used in specific cases. In those circumstances it hasnt replaced or worsened anything, it has added something.

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There was absolutely nothing wrong with the ping but from what I personally saw it didn't take long for people to use a macro on it so it ended up being this massive flashing biohazard ring... Isn't that the reason it was removed because it was being abused?

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On 25.4.2019 at 12:53 AM, Nightingale87 said:

On the other hand, if you move with a Decent squad even in public games, ping is just a part of current communication, not all of it, and only used in specific cases. In those circumstances it hasnt replaced or worsened anything, it has added something.

I think so too.

 

Its on the callers to judge when they should make a "definitive" or "describing" call and this is case dependent.

as definitve call i understand a ping or a call out with grids while definitley preferring the ping.

 

 

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As a Squad leader I know I have literally no time for anything as there is so much going on. Comms is always hectic and then to listen to someone who is quite experienced in the game (because it requires even experience for grid referencing) giving me grid references is a step too far. I'd much prefer a ping as my time is limited and it's just another thing that takes time.

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Yesterday evening i had a pretty decent squad to play with at Narva on PA #1. We were defending the FOB on Flag. Guys were always giving pretty decent call outs like decribed here mentioning landmarks as reference and so on.  One time i died having only map open and someone was giving me the call "enemy squad incoming east of watertower, 50 meter". Was one of the few times i actually asked him for a ping or a grid cause i couldnt see it and didnt even know there was a watertower 100 meter next to our position! Its always helpful when the Field of View of the caller is different than that of the SL!

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55 minutes ago, gshAT said:

One time i died having only map open and someone was giving me the call "enemy squad incoming east of watertower, 50 meter". Was one of the few times i actually asked him for a ping or a grid cause i couldnt see it and didnt even know there was a watertower 100 meter next to our position! Its always helpful when the Field of View of the caller is different than that of the SL!

Could this not have been done with a callout though? Maybe instead of calling from the water tower, they could say something like “Enemies XYZ° from {name}”. I understand the need to quickly get information on a battlefield, but I don’t think the current ping system is the right way to go about it. 

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Posted (edited)

i think that pinging and calling out by grid are technically the same thing. while pinging is just easier for the SL.

the way he did worked for everyone who was alive and around and in general the way someone should call out things, but just not for me in this particular situation cause i was dead. But i told him i couldnt see the watertower and to give me a ping or a grid. actually he opened the map and gave me a description like: "You see the L shaped compound east of FOB? there, and south of it" so he was referencing to something i could see on map which was perfect also.

 

 

btw:

giving degrees with "from my location" is even more disputable and bad behaviour cause i have to find the particular person first on map. when he then also says 267 degrees from me and not even  North West its even more useless.

although in some situation probably on like this it can also work just shouldnt be the standard way of referencing.

 

 

just wanted to note that there are situations where grids or pings are actually viable.

On 24.4.2019 at 2:27 PM, suds said:

the pings had a negative impact on the quality of communication.

well they might have but i think that the ability to read the grids on the bottom left has the same effect on communication. and when i remember back in the days people were giving a lot of grid-callouts when it would have been better with describing callouts.

Edited by gshAT

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The explanation works too, I just don’t see where the ping works into it. Even for the ping you have to search the map, and if you don’t have all sorts of lonewolfs the general location of your squadmates is probably going to be pretty condensed or at least well-known. You don’t need to be 100% accurate in marking something, after all.

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Posted (edited)

When we like to make Rocket Science out of this topic we definitley should do it i think:

 

This topic emerged to the question:

"What is a good callout?"

 

I mentioned there where two types of call outs:

- describing (100m north of something)

- definitive (H5-Kp5-SubKey7, or PING)

 

Since we are Rocketsciencing right now iam not so sure that this is the correct differentation.

 

In practise we actually seem to differentiate between when you as a soldier have to open your map to understand the intel given to you or you can just anticipate it from the get go with your senses.

 

In short:

Do i have to open the map or not?

 

I think we all agree that for everyone on the battlefield while bullets flying over our head a simple "100m northwest ..., at the compound" in local chat is the best for everyone in the squad and also should be done this way.

 

Since my Rocketscience ends here and I am mostly SLing, which means i f***ing always have to open my map cause those f***ers always need their updated markers no matter what, i just dont care.

Leave my Ping so i dont have to deal with grid callers when not asked for.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by gshAT

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I thought the ping sounds were annoying especially when I didn't have time to check my map before the ping faded. The squad level marked FTLs can place are much more useful in my opinion. The immersion of calling grid coordinates and bearings is something that I enjoy about squad, pings made squad feel very gamey.

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