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Alpha 13 Public Test, Round 1

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Increase Invasion mode for al Basra from 100 to 150 start. 100's too low

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Posted (edited)
On 4/15/2019 at 8:47 PM, Skidborg said:

I realize experimenting is necessary but there are some Battlefield-style direction changes here that make me afraid for the future of the game.

 

Removal of the Insta-death penalty timer on Revive

Not sold on this one, but not hating it, except that it is making things more meat grindery for long range engagements.  A little more priority to overrun enemy positions, but that's gruesomely countered by the Buddy Rally thing, which really sucks all the fun out of it.  


Player Movement Speed Increased Balance Changes

No. Stop. This isn't Battlefield.  This too fast for realistic and if your squad needs to run you should have brought a vehicle. Maybe one of those APCs that's galloping around pretending to be a tank.  If you need to cross a gap, that's what smoke, bounding fire (remember when there were a bunch of changes to encourage that?), and intelligent flanking are for. This just encourages run-and-gunnery of the lowest denominator.

Player Stamina Changes

Nerfs are okay, movement buffs feel grossly COD style.  Again this feels like it goes against the whole "think before you move" tactical atmosphere I came to Squad for.

Agree 100% with these points. While the  need to attract a larger player base is important for Squad, it also comes at a cost of streamlining and becoming more like the AAA game.

 

With the reduction of suppression, Olympic sprinter speed and removal of stamina aim penalty, I feel like v13 is poorly trying to rope in RS2/ Battlefield/Apex L players, not keeping it's original goals as a strategic tactical shooter. 

 

I find myself subconciously getting into arcade shooter mindset, charging enemies and HABs using rush-out-twitch the enemy rather than observe my surroundings and decide to disengage or carefully try to move up to find a better firing position.

 

For 2 years I have always chose Squad over other FPS's.  I look at Squad as the leader in a happy marriage between the oversaturated casual fps market and too hardcore series. The current v13 dives way too far into casual shooter territory.

 

While the rest of v13 is great, these few additions move the game in a poor direction. Hopefully all are taken into serious consideration by the devs to be reverted or finding a happy medium between v12 and the current v13 build. 

Edited by Gammazeta430

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3 hours ago, Globul Potato said:

Yeah, i dont know what i was thinking trying to defend Buddy Rally. Silly me. Disregard my opinion, Have your precious hiking/offroad sim. Sometimes i wonder how many people here play on Euro public "nation hodgepodge" servers, outside of closed off friends squads. Because you definitelly have some high Teamwork standards that i very rarely see. Usually quarter of the squad buggers off to do their own thing, quarter doesn't even have a mic and sports some cyrilic nick, and your 9 man squad is just 4 guys that sort of listen.

So because you play on servers that does not encourage teamwork, and it seems you dont seek it since you dont try to change that by playing on better servers, you want OWI to make the game more like COD with even less teamwork?

Try to seek out other server with better teamwork. Learn which squad leaders are better to play with instead of just settling with mediocrity. If I where to join a squad that you describe I would instantly leave either the squad or the server.

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After several hours of play I can say that the direction taken by OWI is disappointing me a lot.

 

Reduction of suppression and optics for all (more and more disparity between optics and iron sight ..) increased speed and reduced transitions (the two things that will make me move away from Squad and increase the lone wolfing out of proportion), reduced stamina consumption, reduced sway , buddy rally, no perma death ... (at this point why not return to the laser guns of v9 and satisfy the mass ???)

I seem to be playing Apex with real weapons and uniforms.

Sadness

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I agree with you Tmac, in my opinion we are going in the opposite direction I would like.

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Just another idea from a recent Youtube discussion about the Stamina UI Bar and the devs concern that noobies don't recognize the stamina bar at all:

 

Quote

Dunk Master: "I think they should replace it with breathing noises as you deplete your stamina, becoming heavier & louder as it runs lower."

 

That would be awesome so noobies get feedback from acoustics as well as the small stamina bar on the lower right. Furthermore different breathing sounds would be more noticable for nearby enemies. So go slow and stealthy or push fast but loud.

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The changes in v13 have taken Squad in the opposite direction from where it's stated goals are.  Squad was not meant to be a mainstream game.  

 

Gunplay needs to slow down.  This is not a 360 no scope game.  You should not be able to stop from a full sprint and hit bullseye in under a second.  

Spawning system was fine in v12.  Please do not cater to those players who complain about how the spawn point is too far away.  

Please bring back instadeath and post revive death.

Please increase suppression.

 

 

OWI, please do not turn Squad into a twitch shooter.  There are plenty of those games around.  Bring back the successor to PR that we had in v12.  

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Running: While it may be a little fast it is better than the peanut butter movement of v12.1

 

Shooting: Seems to be in a good place. Z-axis punch is kinda cool and the sway isn't rage inducing 

 

Spawning: The change does not seem to be really needed, but willing to try it out and test. 

 

FTL: This change is totally understandable. Since it is really the only reason I give out those roles.  I would like to see full-color changes. I think it will help to see who is on what fire team. As it stands in v12 it is kinda hard for the SL or squad mates to stick with their fire team lead since the colors are still the same in the HUD.

 

On larger maps, it would be nice to have a resupply point that is not in the corner of the map. Yeho, for example, is a massive map and having a resupply point closer to the center of the map would be nice QoL addition. 

 

Squad is starting to get fun again. With these updates hopefully, we can get back to fighting the enemy team and not the base game. Squad is about the bridge between the two worlds of Battlefield and ARMA. 
 

Also to all the people complaining about the small changes. I will just tell you what you told me when v10 came out.... Just adapt guys

 

 

Edited by Iloveyourbackpack
Clarification

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Most of the features in this update are a welcome change to many!

 

The Good

- Making movement more fluid allows more tactical options to teams and helps widen the skill gap, greatly increasing player survival-ability when combined with good route planning. This new system focuses more on cover to cover sprints which seems more realistic and a good design decision overall. 

 

- Engineer class was sorely missing from V12. Having a kit that can help vehicles while still being infantry, with other cool tools as well is going to be amazing. 

 

- Ticket bleed changes while still minimal will provide that extra incentive to taking flags once again. Ideally there should be a balance between not wanting to lose your assets, but also capturing flags. No one way of winning the game should be the go to method. This will allow costly assaults to eventually be made up for overtime if one team continues to win the game. 

 

- FTL ranging change was something that while fun, let players play the game Squad a bit too solo. Decent change.

 

- Mortar wounding radius increase was another thing that was a decent change. Dying instantly to mortars sucks, but even increasing how many times people are wounded from mortars can help increase the effectiveness drastically. If people get wounded too much, soldiers with less health definitely have a disadvantage against fresh ones so this will probably see mortars more or less mandatory on certain maps. Good change without making them too oppressive. 

 

- BTR changes were kind of a no-brainer. Good change nonetheless but would almost be silly if it wasn't changed. 

 

The Meh

 

- UI changes like the shifting selection screen and stamina bar relocation are kind of jarring and unnecessary. Previously having all relevant soldier information magazine count, positon etc... in the same place worked really well. It was very handy to be able to glance at a corner of the screen and know all information relevant to your player. 

 

- Insta death removal has been hotly debated so far which is odd for how often it really has a big impact on gameplay. Overall not feeling too strongly on this change one way or the other. On one hand it does allow a team that is nearly wiped to come back seemingly from nothing, but on the other hand the way Squad combat works is that there is very rarely occasion where people can just mass revive their team if they're not being pressured. Seems like this will only be a real issue if the enemy team fails to fully dislodge an enemy assault, which is kind of like failing to wipe a rally point and fresh troops spawning in anyway. I'd be fine with this change reverting or staying because its impact despite what others have said is quite minimal. 

 

The Bad

 

It's pretty much universally agreed at this point that the rally budding feature doesn't make sense. Was a good idea to see if it would but at its core it just doesn't fit with Squad. If fobs becoming instantly active was removed, this shouldn't be a feature either. 

 

Overall

 

If this update was to go live now, without any bugs in it. It would be a good update. Good job on this one. 

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The new Kornet BRDM won't reload at main unless all rockets are fired from it first.  I sat for quite a while with 2 rockets left, trying for just a partial reload, but it would not rearm.  On a whim, my gunner shot off the remaining 2 rockets, and it reloaded instantly.

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Kind of liked the increase movement speeds tbh, seems like the game is gonna be more responsive movement wise on mouse and keyboard. 

 

Clunky and slow doesn't equal to automatic realism y'know.

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Posted (edited)

After some time with the current v13 and many discussions with testers on the current build, here is some actionable feedback to happily unite new players and old on a few features for PT round 2:

 

Buddy rally: Keep the mechanic but the following changes should occur:

1) using it increases next rally placement time by X amount

2) ability costs 5-10 tickets per use

3) only squads at 90% capacity may use the ability

 

These changes would create a risk v. reward scenario where SLs ( and future commanders) would have to decide if they want to use it.

Reward? Potentially achieve teams objective

Risk? Losing more tickets on a rally wipe or replacement by SL.

These changes would add variety to the long game while maintaining the importance of FOBs.

 

Sprinting: keep the mechanic(or better yet, reduce it by half) but go back to the old stamina system and weapon sway.

 

ADS strafe speed: reduce it by 30% 

 

Supression& ads transition: Increase it by 20-40% to discourage the current sprint to insta snap-shooting meta that's emerging.

 

These changes can bring positive changes to the current v13 build while maintaining the integrity of Squads vision!! Hope you devs at least consider trying this out before the official public release!

 

Edited by Gammazeta430

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Gammazeta430 said:

Buddy rally: Keep the mechanic but the following changes should occur:

2) ability costs 5-10 tickets per use

 

Gonna have to go with a big ol' NO on that. People already don't keep ticket usage in mind considering how many vehicles get blown up/abandoned and radios get placed in terrible places. Doing this would just guarantee teams bleeding themselves dry.

 

The whole mechanic needs to be removed or given only to Insurgents with a cool down.

 

--

 

Keeping my thoughts short and to the point.

 

RAAS FOG OF WAR

Good. Was needed from the start. Needs to be extended to other modes(insurgency and destruction).

RAAS LANES

Good.

AAS/RAAS TICKET BLEED & TICKET BLEED UI INDICATOR

Good. Some games were taking painfully long and not rewarding the attacking team enough. Ui is also nice and easily readable.

SL BUDDY RALLY FEATURE

Bad. Needs to be removed completely or only given to insurgents. It's incredibly lazy and cheesy.

REMOVAL OF THE INSTA-DEATH PENALTY TIMER ON REVIVE

Bad. This is rewarding bad defenders too much and not rewarding those fighting well. I feel OWI is trying too hard to make squad accessible and is trying to balance the bad teamwork by making it easier on the individual level.

FIRETEAM LEADER MARKER RANGEFINDER REMOVAL

Good. It was a nice feature.. but it was OP. Now you simply require one additional step from your SL to place a mark on your FTL mark to get the range.

MAP “PINGS” REMOVAL

Good. Also a very cheap and cheesy mechanic added to try and tackle the poor teamwork from the wrong angle. Only other way I would see this being implemented is if you'd have to be within 2-3m of your SL for him to see it on his map.

MORTAR / 30MM / 120MM HE DAMAGE RANGE INCREASE

Good. HE all around was piss poor. Still needs buffs to penetration damage.

BTR-82A & BTR-80

Good. They were shit, now they're a little less shit until we have BMPs.

PLAYER MOVEMENT SPEED INCREASED BALANCE CHANGES & PLAYER STAMINA CHANGES

Bad. Acceleration doesn't feel too bad before it felt like I was trudging through a swamp. Speed needs to be brought down to 5%, and it needs to degrade over time. Say at 3/4 or 2/4 of the stamina bar it starts slowing down you shouldn't be able to maintain that speed all the way through exhaustion(maybe only for conventional forces).

 

Stamina also needs to be nerfed. It regenerated far too fast and makes weapon sway near negligible, which is already way too low when you're completely out of stamina. 

WASD for turrets

Good. What a godsend.

More asymmetrical balance for Insurgents(2 habs per radio & faster building)

Good. Really nice to finally see some more steps taken to make them asymmetrical. 

--

 

The actual content of V13 is good, the engineer class is nice though HABs have never felt weaker and it feels like you need to leave a squad around one to guard it at all times or eventually you'll hear an explosion behind you and check your map to see your HAB is gone.

 

But the actual gameplay changes for the most part are not to my liking. Feels like Squad is being pushed too hard in a direction to make it accessible and less punishing to make up for the overall poor communication and teamwork in public matches. Which is understandable to want to help and fix but these changes don't feel like the right way to do it.

Edited by Chompster

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Posted (edited)

Buddy Rally system is quite controversial because its badly implemented. BR would be a great addition to squad if it wasn’t so easily prone to exploitation.

 

If the BR system was tweaked to only be available in emergence situations rather than something that is accessible at all times, even when there is no real need for it, people would be more welcoming of it.

 

Right now, the BR sys feels like a function thrown in to public testing to elicit a player reaction rather to test a solid tool.

 

Improve Buddy Rally sys.

 

One way of making the BR sys relevant, would be to make it available to squad leaders only when no other spawn options existed on the map (as far as HABS are concerned). As long as you had one HAB left the Buddy Rally sys would be locked.

 

This way the HABs would be important part of squad and the BR sys would be used in a proper way, as a last-ditch effort to regain a foot hold, also the BR sys would be closed to abuse as a rush mechanic when other means of spawn are on the map.

 

You can add a activation timer to the Buddy Rally sys so it can't be abused as a spawn rush tool at the start of the rounds. 

Edited by BatSithCrazy.

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A13 Feedback:
PROS
- The new vehicles are great, maybe just the Spandrel needs a bit of balancing.
- Driving vehicles in general feels much smoother.
- Game performance has increased.
- Engineer is a great addition, C4 is much fun.
- Ping removal was good, it was to arcady 

CONS
- Running speed and stamina recovery is way to high, it makes you feel like bionic man.
- I noticed many kits got their grenade removed (med/AR /AT/ MMG), i believe this is a bad decision. Grenades are your number one tool to get inside of buildings and compounds, without them you are doomed to die entering those areas.

 

- SL Buddy RP makes no sense to me. The main tool to stay on the map and in the fight, should be a FOB and not a RP. It makes good RP positioning and logistic obsolete. Maybe a rebalance of the whole logistic system, starting from the logistic trucks to radios would have been better before working on new stuff. 
Can we test alteration of those in the next play test?
 

- Ticket Bleed, I don't get why it made it back. In contrary to others i don't believe rushing will disappear, it will just change it appearance. Fog of war feature will not solve this problem. Why should a team get rewarded for rushing and then just holding +1 flags for the next 60 minutes? Especially when maps are imbalanced and always favor one team.
Personally i would get rid of it again. If it have to absolutely stay, at least remove the ticket gain a teams gets by capping a neutral flag, to balance it out a bit.

 

Further testing
I am still indecisive regarding things like removal of insta-death and double HAB for INS. The new game mode destruction seems super imbalanced to me.

I hope we get more play test of different systems and mechanics in the future.

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Posted (edited)

First of all the spandrel is a great addition to vehicle combat and so is T-62. Still waiting for that emplaced spg-9 to be picked up or rotate in position better.

 Movement speed seems to be a bit too much while sprinting, It makes me feels like a certain retired sprinter running with full combat gear. All new animations are great and so on.

 The new demolition game mode seems a bit weak so to weak. In my opinion conventional forces would be more focused on enemy´s field "depots" rather than just a simple ammo cache. Like a fuel/ammo FOB so to speak. Like the defenders have no real purpose to defend the cache. 

Edited by TopeH

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I really dislike how other squads can use your rally point, it's unfair to a squad that is using tactics, like not engaging, only to have another squad spawn in and start shooting off your rally. We can't control public players and how they choose to play, it's hard enough telling 9 people to hold their fire until told otherwise, let alone another 2 squads feeding of the fruits of your patient flanking.

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Single man locked squads,  I know that a logi truck can be very efficient and that awesome player that can get 40 kills can be a great addition and resource for the team but the amount of single man locked squads is getting silly. It's not encouraging squad play or team play and less team spirit.  I know sometimes even I'm one of the culprits, but normally that for other reasons. 

 

E.g. Squad 13 you need to work with squad 9 and 8 to get  afob.  Please can we discuss solutions for this.  

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6 hours ago, Smee said:

...the amount of single man locked squads is getting silly. It's not encouraging squad play or team play and less team spirit.

In Squad a one person locked squad sneaking around "Lone Wolfing" can literally be devastating and also play a decisive role providing key intelligence and also taking away enough tickets to literally win the match for their team. That's one of the intrinsic qualities of the game that is often overlooked. I could make an entire Powerpoint presentation of personal examples of my experiences but suffice it to say a when a single savvy person can steal 40-100 tickies from the other team in my mind Charlie Sheen winning right there.

 

Hopefully the JTAC Commander role will expound on this paradigm.

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As I said it's not the awesome player that does sterling work.. Its the 80% of others that dont.

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I also like the new sprint. My biggest issue with squad is the bad hirtreg and that the game is unnecessarily slow. Your stamina depleted after like 30m of sprinting and then it took ages to refill. So im fine with it now, or if it gets toned down, then finding a middle ground between this and v12. V12 movement felt way too slow. Or make the default sprint only 5% faster and keep this 10% faster sprint for a higher stamina cost if you really have to get out of somewhere. Increased reload speed and a bit faster non sprint speed would probably make cqb fun. Currently the movement is just too slow for room clearing. The buddy rally should be gone. And im fine with the optics. Now bad players will suck with an optic and will have one less excuse :) the increased visibility is also nice. So i quite like v13. 

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Ok my turn now ;-) I really do not have anything bad to say about this update.

Ok well maybe two things.

 

First that bugs me most of all and it probably bugs only me is why the hell and when will i get scope for ZU-23-2 and when will it be able to fire full auto? Since with this new update its still the same.

 

Second whats with the engineer thing being able to dig out stuff faster (i have read about it on here) 

Medic healing and bandaging people faster i can understand he is a medic he knows that things better then the other soldiers but the engineer being able to dig fobs faster cause he knows how more effectively use a shover just sounds not right. 

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Don't underestimate the skills of a NAVI  your ability to shift 1ton of earth and use the same shovel to dismantle a radio is a rare skill. lol

 

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tenor.gif

 

Accurate depiction of what your radio sees in its last moments.

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