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Alpha 13 Public Test, Round 1

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Cons:

- Stamina UI should be moved back where it was before.

- The new rally makes HAB pointless.

- Stamina increase. There was no need for this. Breaks the immersion.

- Removal of permanent death.

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The new stabilisation is pretty much useless its so horrible, there is no point of using it now because when the vehicle turns the gun turns too it is so frustrating! i did not see this change on the game play changes so hopefully its just a bug or broken and they fix it back to what it was. 

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There is a sound bug with the American M240.  When I try to fire only one round, it plays a sound of a 3 shot burst, but I suspect that only one round goes down range.  That kind of messed me up when I thought I had squeezed 3 rounds into a target, only to find later that the enemy was still alive, as only one round went down range, but I thought it was 3.  It happened twice before I realized what happened.

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here goes my final feedback about V13

 

- Stamina Hud should go back to where it was, vertical on right

- New animations are much better than before, I loved the more agile soldier with faster movements, they felt like hippies before.

- Stand sprint speed was increased too much, move it back to 3-5% over V12. (5% should be good enough for a realistic but more dynamic gameplay). Crouch speed is fine!

- Ping is missing, todays soldiers can ping in real life GPS, why can't we?

- New Recoil mechanic is very nice but way too much (up direction) and Iǘe noticed there is no Go back on Recoil when you stop shooting, we are not children holding rifles, I can easily shoot a full magazine of AK 47 without half of that recoil. But they are heavy so they should go back to original position after shooting.

- I vote for faster stamina charges or a longer stamina bar, we can run much more than 100 meters in real life.

- Performance is a bit better, but still awful.

Edited by B4rr3l

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I am going to be very honest in my personal feedback - please consider it constructive as I intend it to be. 

 

Good Stuff

 

New vehicles like TOW MATV and Spandy are very welcome, as is the Engineer kit and ability to blow up wrecks. 

 

* New Engine - long overdue but I understand the crazy leg work the team had to put in to make this happen, so good stuff. Has resulted in a much smoother game for me overall, and the future potential with this is exciting. 

 

* Removing FTL Range exploit and ping - Good move, something I have been asking for since day 2 of its implementation. Once people started exploiting it it had to go. In a game where the squad and team are meant to work together, giving AT god power over range is silly. 

 

* RAAS Fog - Likely the best change of all. Will help with map fatigue that most of the community is suffering with right now, and hopefully help the map makers make decisions going forward in their design. 

 

* Shovelling changes - self explanatory - good work. 

 

Bad Stuff

 

* Flogging a dead horse here, but here goes. Speed and Stamina. What is interesting is finally the Squad community is united, even if it is in almost universal dislike of some changes in this patch. The speed increase is too much - I said this in closed testing when I was told it was a reaction to Apex Legends making Squad feel slow, and I say it again now publicly. Toning it down a little will help. However the animations still look ridiculous, and things like climbing stairs SHOULD have an impact on speed. 

 

The biggest issue, and one I can not understand is why stamina has been made redundant. Your stamina recovers at such a fast rate that it might as well not exist. You have the PERFECT opportunity here to fix so many issues - tie stamina to weapon stability, make players manage their stamina. Add sway back into the game after QA essentially pulled it out in the v12.1 hotfix. Make it so that low stamina is punished with poor accuracy. This seems so obvious in a game designed to promote teamwork. You, as an individual, should NOT be able to sprint 100m and perfectly ping a dude from 200m away. You should move with your squad and be more deliberate in that movement. And you should be trying to promote firefights that last and are fun, now instantly over. More sway, more suppression, all tied to stamina. Then slow down the stamina regeneration. 

 

One of the biggest problems you have is the fact that this change essentially undermines the message and public goals of the game, and creates confusion in the current playerbase. This game will forever be relatively niche, but this change is to encourage pubbys to pick up and play. A fine goal, but massively flawed in its implementation. The stated reason for this in testing was that players need mobility - thats what vehicles are for. So they lose all their vehicles? They should get punished with poor mobility. Giving individuals the ability to Usain Bolt across the map is not the solution. 

 

Bring back sway, bring back proper suppression, tie it to stamina. Real simple stuff. 

 

* Still no mortar calculator. Unfortunately the community is rife with people using external tools to get an advantage. If Squad is serious in its goal to attract new players and level the playing field, then an in-game calculator needs to be added, otherwise new players simply can not compete. In the meantime add some element of randomness to the mortars to stop the pinpoint accuracy - maybe 5-8m is enough in the meantime. 

* Buddy rally - another one of the changes that clearly was not thoughts out. HABs are redundant, and this is beyond exploitable. Again, your logic is to promote a fast paced game with no down time to promote new players coming and sticking to the game. You base this on the fact that no one likes to have to return to main, or spawn at main. A fair goal, though I would suggest the logic is incorrect. However 100% action destroys the gameplay. Defenders should be rewarded for wiping a squads HAB or RP, not face endless spam charges. What next, spawning vehicles in the field?

 

* Perma Death removal - Again an entirely illogical change. Again made, I presume, to relieve the punishing nature of the game for new players. However this is open to exploit and doesn't reward the team with better movement, positioning and killing power. 

Overall some really good changes, but some huge illogical things too - 1 step forwards, 2 back with this patch. 

 

Hoping for some massive changes before this goes live. As some have stated, there is massive concern in the broader, usually more silent side of the community that OWI has somehow changed their goal in making a game that is supposedly the spiritual successor to Project Reality. This patch makes it seem like a pretty poor attempt at a BF4/Apex crossover. Currently there is even more mixed messaging than usual, and what seems to be multiple internal factions pulling this game in different directions to each other, and the public stated goals. This is resulting in huge gameplay changes, confusion, and then hotfixes to revert those changes. This can all be prevented.....

 

It would also help if OWI could decide what they wanted to do in terms of feedback - there are so many Discord channels currently dumping feedback into them, then there is this thread, there are backchannels, and overall mixed messaging. There are OWI staff with job titles and tags in discord talking about things that is not in their purview, and apparently making changes and decisions to gameplay they should not be involved in, and releasing that information to their groups, creating even more confusion. The silly changes in this patch could have been addressed and rectified long ago in closed testing had a proper feedback mechanic been in place, not just "fight in the 300m squared box to see how the map feels" testing. In my opinion this is why the testing team has been shrinking week on week for months, and is becoming more and more just the area for bragging rights of a few with the right tags and friends. And I say this as someone who has been involved as a Squad tester since before the game was even announced to the public. 

 

I am encouraged by the dedication to having a more agile development and release strategy, and modding 2.0 as I feel modding might have to be the way to save Squad from OWIs internal confusion at this point. 

 

Hopefully you guys can get your future vision in order, make peace with the original kickstarter goal of this being a niche game based on the same vision as Project Reality, and rectify this bipolar patch soon. 

 

I hope this feedback has been useful. 

Edited by Jeepo

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not been in squad for months.. but what this reads like is that Squad is trying to compete with the wrong games, I had a discussion last year on the forum about no. of players and which games it competes against and how it wasnt really stacking up against its real competitors.... I would never have thought Squad would be going anywhere near the Apex lot and any changes that appear to want to placate any players from that genre would imo be the death of squad for the players that wanted a military sim esq game.

 

Reads like there is a bit of confusion in the direction of the game and as Zylfrax has said many times, trying to straddle multiple game styles is going to cause issues. 

 

Many of these changes dont encourage me to come back any time soon and I bought this in EA with over 2500 hrs it originally hit its niche... know what you are.

Edited by embecmom

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You guys have to remember, OWI is just testing different things out - As in experimenting different things, which is good. It's a good use of utilizing the public test branch, to allow the community to explore and test out features to see how they play out. Obviously some changes or additions in these little experiments will be lack luster, it comes with the territory of trying things out.

Things are going to change before v13 full release, and some of the experimental features/additions might not even make it in the final release of v13. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Dubs said:

You guys have to remember, OWI is just testing different things out - As in experimenting different things, which is good. It's a good use of utilizing the public test branch, to allow the community to explore and test out features to see how they play out. Obviously some changes or additions in these little experiments will be lack luster, it comes with the territory of trying things out.

Things are going to change before v13 full release, and some of the experimental features/additions might not even make it in the final release of v13. 

 

 

Hence the feedback, to assist them with this! :D

Edited by Jeepo

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1 hour ago, Dubs said:

OWI is just testing different things out

Tweaking and testing things like speed is totally fine.

Trying to implement something like the rally points with a mechanic (Teleporting troups without effort) we already tested versions ago (Cooker-Fobs) which was considered exploitable and not wanted is something i dont get.

Someone has to put time in coding and implementing this i guess.

When i read in the Notes that a "simple" Marker for Mortars (not sure how simple but i guess more simple to implement than the buddyrally system) is not making it into the next patch than this is whats triggering me a little then.

 

 

 

 

Edited by gshAT

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1 hour ago, Dubs said:

You guys have to remember, OWI is just testing different things out - As in experimenting different things, which is good. It's a good use of utilizing the public test branch, to allow the community to explore and test out features to see how they play out. Obviously some changes or additions in these little experiments will be lack luster, it comes with the territory of trying things out.

Things are going to change before v13 full release, and some of the experimental features/additions might not even make it in the final release of v13. 

 

 

 

On 4/15/2019 at 9:18 AM, Gatzby said:

ALPHA 13 TEST NOTES

  • This is our first public test of A-13.
  • Games will be hosted on our servers in the Custom Servers tab, no community servers (yet).
  • We’ll run this test for a limited period of time, and may shut it down abruptly if it’s not providing value.
  • The purpose of this public test is to receive early feedback from you on the gameplay in A-13.  As we approach releasing A-13 this feedback is valuable in reducing the delay between public testing and release.

LOL @ the people White Knighting OWI

They asked for feedback. That's exactly what they're getting.
 

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I love the updated graphics/engine. Things seem crisper and I am running an older card. I have had 2 engine crashes so far, but sent the reports in.

BUGS

The random sound of an SPG reload happening every once in a while. Even when no where near a vehicle.

Spawned in on rally with minimum mags on a GL kit on US side. Went to the transpo truck to rearm. Pulled 3 more mags to have a total of 6 mags of ammo. They just replaced the 3 I already had and used up that ammo from the truck.

 

GOOD

The sounds at the rally and repair stations.
Combat Engineer kit
Removing the range finder from FTL markers.
Love the Spandrel and TOW MATV!

 

BAD

The MATV/MRAPs seem to have gotten a serious armor buff. Took about 7 shots from a 30mm at 50m to kill it. Front armor. Have also heard from another TG that their BDRM did very little damage with its 14.5 cannon.
Increased speed seems excessive. It should be a gradient. If you are going to run that fast then it should be a sprint and then decrease from there. Maybe a separate sprint timer?
Buddy rally - just no.

Fatigue sway needs to come back

Suppression is really pretty weak now - almost pointless with the exception of the fear of getting winged by a random round.
Reload times at Main seems too fast
Remove destroyed vehicles - haven't seen it. Changes some of the metas of blocking bridges with destroyed vehicles, but the better fix is making them movable or destructible.

 

JURY IS OUT

Stamina bar at center of screen

Changed spawn process - keep spawning too soon before I change kits as I am still used to having to confirm.

Graphics for the mags at the bottom right. Cool and all, but the smaller bars took up less space and gave the same info.

WISH LIST
Ammo/Material drops from vehicles. Leaves a map marker for friendly troops. Can be used to stage for a radio or drop supplies on the field for troops maneuvering. Destructible by enemy troops. Disappears once they are all used. Maybe degrade over time to prevent over reliance/misuse.

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28 minutes ago, disposableHero said:

 

LOL @ the people White Knighting OWI

They asked for feedback. That's exactly what they're getting.
 

I'm not saying don't post feedback, My point is that certain things within the current test build are merely there to be an experiment, to see how they affect the game and if the community likes said experimental changes. People are saying things like "Squad is going in the wrong direction" etc - How? They're just experimental changes and should be treated as such.

It's not a final build of A13; Some things in the playtest are 100% planned and will be in the final build(with certain tweaks) and some things in the play test are not planned, and are not guaranteed to be there in the final build, they're just there to be an experiment. It's important to keep that in mind.

Also, discussion can be had without involving silly remarks.
 

1 hour ago, gshAT said:

Tweaking and testing things like speed is totally fine.

Trying to implement something like the rally points with a mechanic (Teleporting troups without effort) we already tested versions ago (Cooker-Fobs) which was considered exploitable and not wanted is something i dont get.

Someone has to put time in coding and implementing this i guess.

When i read in the Notes that a "simple" Marker for Mortars (not sure how simple but i guess more simple to implement than the buddyrally system) is not making it into the next patch than this is whats triggering me a little then.

 

 

 

 

I myself am not too fond of the Buddy rally system either - But if OWI have an Idea and want to test different Ideas out, then I encourage them to continue to test random things out, via the test app. Keeps us in the loop , and is more of a hands on approach.

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Happy to see many of the new things in squad.  ( Double HAB's for non regular forces.)  but feel more its the things that don't work need mentioning. Thanks for the hard work and update. But here's a couple from me. 

 

 

Rally sound Too much white noise (hoping its a placeholder) Needs bit of Anders magic.

 

 

Speed Increase has reduced the time to traverse the maps, which thought previous updates reduction was because of vehicles. And does feel too fast on sprint.  

 

Vehicle manifest removal of seeing who's in the truck with pressing F1, used to as the driver press F1 would bring up the crew if you where driver that's gone, would like it back.

 

Destruction mode. Area  seems very small for where the cache will be with the child like lines to say where you should be going plus the check marks. Thought we where getting away from this stuff with the RAAS and fog of war. Already seeing people adapting to the next attack positions. Also Make it 1 Sapper per squad of 9, lost a round for not being able to get a sapper to the controlled area.

 

Weapon Cache Allow people to resupply from it. Or at least non AT. 

 

 

Edited by Smee

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1 hour ago, Dubs said:

I'm not saying don't post feedback, My point is that certain things within the current test build are merely there to be an experiment, to see how they affect the game and if the community likes said experimental changes. People are saying things like "Squad is going in the wrong direction" etc - How? They're just experimental changes and should be treated as such.

It's not a final build of A13; Some things in the playtest are 100% planned and will be in the final build(with certain tweaks) and some things in the play test are not planned, and are not guaranteed to be there in the final build, they're just there to be an experiment. It's important to keep that in mind.
 

Perhaps then you or someone else from OWI should identify which of the changes present in the play test are eligible for commentary from the community and which ones we should just not comment on? What sort of commentary is in bounds and what is out of bounds?

We'd hate to waste our time and theirs offering our opinion on the changes we're currently playing and the direction of a title we've all paid for.

Edited by disposableHero

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27 minutes ago, disposableHero said:

Perhaps then you or someone else from OWI should identify which of the changes present in the play test are eligible for commentary from the community and which ones we should just not comment on? What sort of commentary is in bounds and what is out of bounds?

We'd hate to waste our time and theirs offering our opinion on the changes we're currently playing and the direction of a title we've all paid for.

Everything in the test build needs feedback, including the experimental things. How else would OWI know if they should invest more in one of their experimental ideas they added to a test build?

The point I'm trying to make is - Why get worked up over experimental features, they're just Ideas OWI put into the test build, as sub tests amongst the broader test. How is that turning Squad away from it's intended direction? They're literally ideas OWI want to experiment with and decided to test out in the V13 test build, along side the planned set in stone things for V13.

It just doesn't make sense to say OWI is taking Squad away from it's intended direction, based on experimental features tested alongside the actual planned set of things in V13.  

 

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On 4/17/2019 at 9:07 AM, neguritab said:

Cons:

- Stamina UI should be moved back where it was before.

- The new rally makes HAB pointless.

- Stamina increase. There was no need for this. Breaks the immersion.

- Removal of permanent death.

Can someone explain to me "the permanent death" I haven't been able to play the test yet.

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A lot of negativity on the Buddy Rally system, so, to hope they don't remove it- a voice FOR it.

 

Its a force multiplyer. With vehicles around infantry is outclassed and bigger maps are unsuited for them. How often the game turns into die- walk 2km, die again? It lessens the downtime for infantry and makes it look like you're against a larger force than it really is. To use vehicles you have to drag them all the way from main, but once one squad slips through defenses, a whole platoon might appear there. They upped the scale of engagement by reducing the time that is spent just on traversing the map. Imho, a good addition. Might get really OP when helicopters come though. For the people saying its unrealistic- so what? Respawn already is unrealistic. Play one life operations if you want realism. It should be represented in the gameplay itself, The way weapons, vehicles and characters behave. Not in walking or driving for 10 minutes becouse you died. If anything, current system is more against realism than the new one , as you get a bunch of spread around squads and stragglers while in reality a platoon would stick together. So this might actually be a move FOR realism, not against it. We're not doing a company, or battalion level battle becouse there's enough respawns to field one. We're doing a dwindling platoon engagement over and over and over again with disorganized people trickling in from their various spawns. Its devised to bring units closer together and not have them spread around entire map in various phases of getting back into the fight. More time actually trying to outmaneuver the enemy and do something that matters, less time wasted on getting there, which hardly never is coordinated. More playing the game, less getting to play the game.

 

Sure, You're supposed to drive the infantry forward in APCs or trucks, but that really only works in the initial deployment. Imagine being the APC crew-  Match started, You drove them where they wanted. Some of them died. Then what? You go back and do a taxi for the entire match bringing fresh spawns, or do you support the infantry that already is there like you should? In real world this wouldn't be a problem becouse the force gets there at once, and fights together, but here it is because of constant reinforcements. I think people tend to forget that the organized single clan squads are not the main players of Squad. Randoms are. The other day I spent few minutes yelling at a running squad to get into my BTR so i can drive them where they want to go. You think they did? All those high teamplay concepts require exactly that- high teamplay. Which usually is lacking.

 

As for those that say FOBs are useles now- No, they're not. Its just that there's too much reliance on them now. Think about it- to use the buddy rally SL has to be dead, that means there's a high probability he is going to be the first spawn in there, thats sticking the squad together. "Blueberries" cant use it becouse they're not assigned to any squad. Lone wolfing squad members also have no say as it is SL who decides if to create one. FOB on the other hand- Anyone can spawn anytime, plus the most important thing that is mostly overlooked- It can have defenses and stationary weapons. Rally points can't. Now we just use FOBs as hidden forward spawns, and they're so precious in that role that they're not fulfilling their real role- to be a hard nut to crack for the attacker/supplement the attack. Its just making spawning harder for the sake of making spawning harder. Sure, Rally Points are ridiculously easy to set, but they are easy to get rid of as well. Or, at least, they should be easy to get rid of. What i think should happen is increasing the overrun radius. That way pushing back against the attacker has some merit and is much more realistic than the meta gaming FOB hunts.

 

To summarise- Buddy Rally is a good thing. It gives much more flexibility and mobility, makes cooperation easier, and cuts back on all those "running through the open field like an idiot" hours. Respawn is already unrealistic. Just go with it. That way we may get some more realistic stamina and moving speeds because making clicks on foot to get to the battle itself is less of a requirement.

 

As for getting rid of perma death- im against it for the same reasons people above might be, but i have an idea to improve it- Instead of having it set to arbitrary 60 seconds, make it go after you're back to full health- so You're propperly taken care of by a medic, not just reviewed. This way it makes more sense and makes playing medic smart more important instead of "who can bring more people up as fast as he can"

Waiting for respawn in case of permadeath should also be reduced by the time you were waiting for a medic when you were wounded- that way it encourages waiting without needlessly punishing.

Edited by Globul Potato

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50 minutes ago, nagasuru said:

Can someone explain to me "the permanent death" I haven't been able to play the test yet.

In Squad as we know it, being put down within 60 seconds after being revived, you die instantly - No incap state.

 

This has been removed as an experiment in the v13 test. Only way you fully die  from being shot is, by giving up in incap state, or death timer reaches 0.

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Where is  the squad public test download? I don´t see any icons when I click on squad . 

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besides all the positive changes in regards to engine, content, polish in all departments (great job everyone!) here are a few thoughts from getting in a couple of rounds:


buddy rally system
I can see the benefit of having such a system to keep up the flow - until choppers make it in that is.
however here are some ideas to differentiate them from hab spawns a little better and prevent possible abuse.
the feasibilty of their technical implementation has not been considered:

  • have the squad lead who's placed the initial rally approve requests by other squads to spawn in on his rally - similar to vehicle claim. reason being that it allows more experienced SLs to control the flow better. one example: I wanna go in sneaky with my squad - other squad(s) spawn in, shooting, ruining moment of surprise.
  • restrict the amount of squads (eg 1-2 squads) that can spawn in on a foreign rally.
     

movement speed increase
I like this for now. speed increase together with a seemingly faster stamina recovery allows for a more fluid approach when moving from cover to cover. I don't think this makes the game less tactical or significantly faster
since it still very much matters deciding when to move when and where. besides if the enemy is playing smart he will lock down certain areas where all the movement increase won't matter. furthermore you could sprint for ~200m in a12 whereas it's ~100m now - I prefer the new way because of the aforementioned reasons. the animations still feel a bit weird but that's
probably just the a12 bias.


one click spawn
it seems easier to spawn in on the wrong point by accident - however I suppose it will iron itself out over time, since old habits
die slowly.

 

combat engineer
really dig this kit (hue) - especially it's increased shoveling speed. the speed might even be buffed a little further imo.

 

map pings
I welcome they were removed. now concise communication plays a bigger role again for a being a good player/squad.

 

removal of death penalty
not really sure what to think of this one yet. I consider this similar to the buddy rally system though - once helicopters are in, some sort of death penalty could return.

 

drawable path lines on map
I like them. if used smartly they can greatly enhance the information you can deduce from looking at the map.

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1 hour ago, Dubs said:

In Squad as we know it, being put down within 60 seconds after being revived, you die instantly - No incap state.

 

This has been removed as an experiment in the v13 test. Only way you fully die  from being shot is, by giving up in incap state, or death timer reaches 0.

No instagib in a fps game doesn't appeal to me at all really. Obviously I see the bigger picture which is life preservation within the paradigm of Squad's gameplay however getting headshot with any larger caliber weapons and not getting fragged is neither Arcade or MilSim. This is illogical and reeks of the "everyone gets a trophy" mindset.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Globul Potato said:

A lot of negativity on the Buddy Rally system, so, to hope they don't remove it- a voice FOR it.

Sorry but no, it does have it's advantages, but it's a litteral cheat, it's so exploitable it's ridiculous. There's literally no effort involved on your squad's end for placing it. Fobs become barely useful at all, except when you're out of ammo, but with riflemen or an apc nearby, ammo isn't an issue either, making fobs useless most of the times.

This rally system breaks the game, a whole team can instantly respawn around a single squad leader's rallypoint out of nowhere, instantly overwhelming the opposing squad without any planning, effort, even playing the game inbetween. For me personally there's not a single reason to even consider having it in.

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30 minutes ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

Sorry but no, it does have it's advantages, but it's a litteral cheat, it's so exploitable it's ridiculous. There's literally no effort involved on your squad's end for placing it. Fobs become barely useful at all, except when you're out of ammo, but with riflemen or an apc nearby, ammo isn't an issue either, making fobs useless most of the times.

This rally system breaks the game, a whole team can instantly respawn around a single squad leader's rallypoint out of nowhere, instantly overwhelming the opposing squad without any planning, effort, even playing the game inbetween. For me personally there's not a single reason to even consider having it in.

Agreed. Everything else v13 including Sonic The Hedgehog sprinting appeals to me except this odd rally system and the no instagib.

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7 hours ago, Globul Potato said:

A lot of negativity on the Buddy Rally system, so, to hope they don't remove it- a voice FOR it.

 

Its a force multiplyer. With vehicles around infantry is outclassed and bigger maps are unsuited for them. How often the game turns into die- walk 2km, die again? It lessens the downtime for infantry and makes it look like you're against a larger force than it really is. To use vehicles you have to drag them all the way from main, but once one squad slips through defenses, a whole platoon might appear there. They upped the scale of engagement by reducing the time that is spent just on traversing the map. Imho, a good addition.

[snip]

Everything you like is exactly the problem with it. There's no point in having a big map at all if there's a method to completely ignore that there's a big map.  Why not just play the skirmish maps if you don't enjoy the long range strategic and transport elements?

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Yeah, i dont know what i was thinking trying to defend Buddy Rally. Silly me. Disregard my opinion, Have your precious hiking/offroad sim. Sometimes i wonder how many people here play on Euro public "nation hodgepodge" servers, outside of closed off friends squads. Because you definitelly have some high Teamwork standards that i very rarely see. Usually quarter of the squad buggers off to do their own thing, quarter doesn't even have a mic and sports some cyrilic nick, and your 9 man squad is just 4 guys that sort of listen.

Edited by Globul Potato

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