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Weapon Recoil

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Since V12, most assault rifles have had drastically changed recoil patterns making them very hard to control. They're also unrealistically uncontrollable. For instance, a full auto m4 in-game literally has more hop than an m240b. In real life, it barely moves. You could say its game balance, but that doesn't matter considering that the m4 has just about the same amount of recoil as an AKM. V10/V11 had nearly perfect recoil patterns. It wasn't stupid like in v9, but it still made sense to a real-life counterpart. Simply revert the recoil that was present in v10, and all would be fine.  At least change the full auto recoil for these guns, it's horrendous, especially after the iron sights on the Ak now are rendered differently, making it even harder.

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Yeah I think the devs mentioned that they were surprised by how little the recoil of the real weapons affects aim

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The m4 is quite hard to control accurately on full auto due to its low weight and high rate of fire. Full auto is generally very ineffective unless you're in cqb. The m240 on the other hand is very heavy and has a slow rate of fire. 

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I believe it was for more for balance then realism. I understand it to a point mainly back in the day when only US had optics (besides the SVD) we used to sit back and range the **** out of insurgents which frustrated some folks. I personally liked it since it required you to think out of the box to find a way to get around and ambush the US instead of playing **** **** games shooting across hills every game. Squad has a whole has come along way since then and honestly gotta say that the M4 is still probably one of the best in game (different for everyone) going on that the L85 is pretty ****ing beasty also without a whole lot of recoil (I think they might add more to it depending on if they use the Brits on more maps).

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overall the gunplay is pretty unsatisfying, especially compared to post scriptum

though honestly I can't really say why, I'm sure the recoil has something to do with that

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On 2019-03-02 at 12:55 AM, VaaSHARK said:

I believe it was for more for balance then realism. I understand it to a point mainly back in the day when only US had optics (besides the SVD) we used to sit back and range the **** out of insurgents which frustrated some folks. I personally liked it since it required you to think out of the box to find a way to get around and ambush the US instead of playing **** **** games shooting across hills every game. Squad has a whole has come along way since then and honestly gotta say that the M4 is still probably one of the best in game (different for everyone) going on that the L85 is pretty ****ing beasty also without a whole lot of recoil (I think they might add more to it depending on if they use the Brits on more maps).

I personally would like to see a bit less optic heavy squad, You even get a scope as a medic if u are on the Brit side. Scopes should be limited so that there would be maybe 3 guys in a squad with scopes and the rest have aimdot or iron. A 4x is not standard equipment for regular soldiers in any army.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Pluto is a planet said:

I personally would like to see a bit less optic heavy squad, You even get a scope as a medic if u are on the Brit side. Scopes should be limited so that there would be maybe 3 guys in a squad with scopes and the rest have aimdot or iron. A 4x is not standard equipment for regular soldiers in any army.

go ahead and find me a picture of british soldiers in an active war zone without long range optics

Edited by Hotpokkaminny

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10 hours ago, Pluto is a planet said:

A 4x is not standard equipment for regular soldiers in any army.

We Brits now slap an ELCAN SpecterOS 4x on pretty much everything now for the last few years.

 

Now I don't know how well that would translate into a game such as Squad but if we went full realism then all 9 members of the section in Squad would be rocking 4x.

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18 hours ago, Hotpokkaminny said:

overall the gunplay is pretty unsatisfying, especially compared to post scriptum

though honestly I can't really say why, I'm sure the recoil has something to do with that

I think it’s because the sights automatically recenter, whereas in Squad they don’t, so you have to pull the mouse down manually. I prefer the PS gun handling as well, including how the zoom for the iron sights isn’t on a timer. God, I hate the timer.

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2 hours ago, Melbo said:

We Brits now slap an ELCAN SpecterOS 4x on pretty much everything now for the last few years.

 

Now I don't know how well that would translate into a game such as Squad but if we went full realism then all 9 members of the section in Squad would be rocking 4x.

it worked fine in PR, just give all conventional factions 4x on pretty much every class

would help if we didn't have so many pixel hunt centric maps

1 hour ago, fatalsushi said:

I think it’s because the sights automatically recenter, whereas in Squad they don’t, so you have to pull the mouse down manually. I prefer the PS gun handling as well, including how the zoom for the iron sights isn’t on a timer. God, I hate the timer.

yeah that could be why

gunplay definitely needs a rework, it's pretty far below other shooters in the genre

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23 hours ago, Pluto is a planet said:

I personally would like to see a bit less optic heavy squad, You even get a scope as a medic if u are on the Brit side. Scopes should be limited so that there would be maybe 3 guys in a squad with scopes and the rest have aimdot or iron. A 4x is not standard equipment for regular soldiers in any army.

Agree with you. 

All kits with optics in v13 will be a bad solution. I talk about game balance, not about realism...

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Optics are quite OP in long range, but quite shit in close quarter combat, at least for me. As insurgents and militia you'll have your own advantages to balance it out idealy. Like, you'd be pretty light on equipment, so faster running speed and more stammina would be neat. Allowing you to close in quicker, or to outmanouver the scoped enemies.

Map design also plays a massive role here, sure you can have a full squad with optics looking over an objective in the valley below, but who's gonna go in and take it? Insurgents should have loads of things to hide behind. Some AP mines and IEDs set up would make it a real pain for the conventional factions to take it.

Add a technical on the opposite hill harassing your guys and it goes into the insurgents' favour.

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12 hours ago, Hotpokkaminny said:

it worked fine in PR, just give all conventional factions 4x on pretty much every class

would help if we didn't have so many pixel hunt centric maps

yeah that could be why

gunplay definitely needs a rework, it's pretty far below other shooters in the genre

PR also had a limited view distance which is probably one of the reasons so many optics/air vehicles weren't so overpowered.

 

The play test earlier for v13 was an early build and the kits available then won't necessarily be in the actual final release I believe. 

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10 hours ago, Melbo said:

PR also had a limited view distance which is probably one of the reasons so many optics/air vehicles weren't so overpowered.

 

The play test earlier for v13 was an early build and the kits available then won't necessarily be in the actual final release I believe. 

the view distance was 500 metres, which is pretty far beyond the effective range of a 4x optic

it's not really a balance issue if everyone has them, insurgents shouldn't be in AAS anyway

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36 minutes ago, Hotpokkaminny said:

the view distance was 500 metres, which is pretty far beyond the effective range of a 4x optic

it's not really a balance issue if everyone has them, insurgents shouldn't be in AAS anyway

There's a big difference in 500m and practically unlimited though.

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19 minutes ago, Melbo said:

There's a big difference in 500m and practically unlimited though.

good thing there aren't any unlimited sightlines in the game

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On 3/3/2019 at 6:38 AM, Pluto is a planet said:

I personally would like to see a bit less optic heavy squad, You even get a scope as a medic if u are on the Brit side. Scopes should be limited so that there would be maybe 3 guys in a squad with scopes and the rest have aimdot or iron. A 4x is not standard equipment for regular soldiers in any army.

"Aimdot"

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Posted (edited)

Here is not about i agree or not , clearly SQUAD’s 12.1 tweaks were overexaggerated recoil changes that anyone who has a shot a rifle knows that’s too much . Definitely  not a fan of the recoil right now and I think it has to be reduced , that explains sometimes the unsatisfying feeling that some of u guys have. It’s gotta be taken back to something a lot more reasonable like v11 recoil as u say.

 

 

 

Edited by maze2

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On 3/4/2019 at 5:51 AM, Tmac said:

Agree with you. 

All kits with optics in v13 will be a bad solution. I talk about game balance, not about realism...

I don't see how it will imbalance gameplay. If anything, won't it cancel out putting everyone on an equal playing field, rather than having 2-3 guys dominating with optics the whole time?

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I haven't played this patch very much for different reasons that i'll avoid mentioning to keep on topic. Although I can say a very LARGE group of very committed squad players that I hang out with on discord have stopped playing altogether because of the new gun mechanics. I'm not sure how much use this is to anyone but it does concern me that there is a very noticeable trend of veteran players, who have stopped playing for this very reason.

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V11 was the best balance for me tbh, while V12.2 is much better than V12 initially, i still miss the way it was. V9 gun mechanics i think would go too far into the opposite direction.

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