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can we make these snipers more stable with a bypod please the recoil on them is crazy and no one likes to use them because they aren't even one shots which they should be

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 If you want a single shot rifle watch your shot placement and kill them in the most open areas, also it is a one shot, they bleed out if they don't have patches. As I said in one thread about body armor and effect of bullets on body in general. While they said in the past they wouldn't show anything graphic, I've noticed as with Project Reality the wound concepts are realistic. For instance with the M110 and SVD getting grazed by bullets that just scrape the side of the head or scrape and knock past the rib cag maybe breaking a rib or through and through flesh wound. But no direct penetration, it leads to a lot of people being frustrated in PR and Squad like "I shot him X amount of times". (Forgive me for the graphic detail, I will restrain it as much as possible and be educational about it) You need to hit the area with vital organs, like I was sniping in PR the other day and saw a guy laying on top of the hill, if I shot him in the back of the legs it might have grazed his narrow legs, even if I penetrated he could have crawled or hobbled off behind the hill. So that's shot placement for you. The SVD and M110 are always one shot kill rifles to the fatal T in the torso, depends on how fast you stop the bleeding with a patch which should only slow the bleeding until you find a medic. In the sense of how tough humans are Squad and PR touch on it really well, a jaw head shot wont kill you(off topic but fact, if a hunter don't hunt any large animal and don't aim for its head, study first, don't want anything starving or suffering to death with a horrible wound).

 

For the body armor if hit in a ceramic plate or SAPI plate the effect needs to be heavy suppression effect, more blur than bullets hitting wall next to you, maybe even the animation for what happens when you get knocked down by a truck for rounds like 7.62x54mmR at 600m or less, 7.62x39 at 300m or less knock you back off your feet or off the kneeling position, if prone and it hits armor it will be like getting hit in plate by claw hammer between the ground and hammer. Like this could get very realistic if Devs do it right gradually adding more aspects, when shot in plate the spall and fragmentation of shrapnel giving that slight wounded screen but not mortally wounded, the suppression effect, weapon sway/knocking around, they could make weapons get shot. A ceramic plate once damaged by 5 to10 of 5.56 rounds or 2 to 6 of 7.62 rounds will be shattered and would only slow down a bullet reducing penetration and hydrostatic shock effect.

 

 

A rifle getting shot taking a bullet has saved people from direct penetration but results in fragmentation of the round and parts of rifle injuring still, especially when its from snipers at distances where the snipers round starts to lose velocity it loses lethality. This leads me to effects of arm penetrating wounds(not graze scrapes or flesh through and throughs) for firing rifle when its in front of body armor getting hit. While rounds are hitting around you, hitting your armor, grazing your legs, grazing shoulders/arms/wrists/ribs or otherwise penetrating un-armored body parts adrenaline will allow 3-10 seconds off effective fighting with any wound except for head wounds from rifles which are likely to knock you out quickly leaving you to bleed out (i.e shouldn't be able to patch). Graze wounds lead to fractures and penetration chips/breaks bones. If they wanted a graze wound to the head could knock you out leaving you to the mercy of enemies checking bodies or friendlies still fighting in room you are breaching/defending or blind you in one eye partially or fully in game. They could add a AI skeletal structure with medulla oblongata as a dot in its proper place for one shot kills, no revive. If penetration and any slight graze or hydrostatic shock to the medulla then one shot kill too.  

 

So in a Close Quarters Battle(CQB) setting with fresh armor, rifle and body, you go into a building first man encountering insurgents in a fatal funnel, you get lit up. The possible details of that 3-10 seconds engagement for front man are as follows, both front man and insurgents start shooting at each other at the same time. The front man starts getting hit in body armor, he is still capable of bringing his rifle up to point or in the least aim down to sides, while at the same time able to stumble out of the way for more friendlies to push the corners of the CQB space. This scenario is minimal expectation of detail for me when it comes to this games future armor system and how wounds to un-armored parts counteract the protection of vitals so its not over powered. Its not so much different from current wound system but the effect of a bullet being slowed down by your arms reduces armor damage. If a bullet happens to hit the bicep/triceps and goes through the ribs into the torso that needs to be a function as well with fine cut physical armor sprites to reduce OP of armor. Like it really saved a lot of lives and players will need to get around that.

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Inb4snipercomments

 

I don't see why the American and Russian DMRs wouldn't have bipods for them. Pretty well every picture you see of the M110 has a bipod but I'm not sure if the SVDM has phased out the SVD yet for the Russians.

It's hard enough to get every Chris Kyle in the squad to move with my guys, I imagine it would be even harder once they deploy their bipod.

 

I'll tell you the reasoning behind the full sized rifle calibers not being a one hit kill.

Getting hit with the DMR and not immediately bandaging yourself is essentially dying in one hit. Either the shooter does a follow up or the guy ducks behind cover and patches himself up. If it was a one hit kill center mass it would be honestly unfair to the rest of the firearms like the PKM and 240 not to kill in one hit either and you're starting to make intermediate calibers insufficient even in ranges where they should outperform the DMRs and MMGs.

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Bipod would be nice, but not necessary. They are pretty stable and the recoil is fine as well. The British marksman with the L86 has a bipod, but I don't remember using it. Mobility is king. 

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We technically have marksmen not snipers so they are more of medium range squad support. But there are no problem to take the long range shots without a bipod as long as you have stamina. There are also no problem to one shoot en enemy if he is stationary as long as you hit him in the head.

I personally prefer to not have a bipod, a bipod isnt't that useful and you would be much more exposed when you have it deployed. There are a ton of guys standing fully exposed in a window and a bipod would make their situation even worse. The L86 is more of a general purpose support weapon and the bipod is more useful when the gun is used as a light MG. When i play w the L86 kit i rarely depolys the bipod because you can rarely find a good spot for it if you want to be concealed.

And for gameplay reasons i dont think the marksman class should have bipods, a 10x w a bipod would not be good for the balance of the game. As for now the scope is at least balanced with the fact that the gun is pretty much useless at close range and any shot beyond 400 requires a lot of skill and luck to pull off.

Imo a 4x is ideal because it works well at the combat ranges we have in the game and out to ~400 meters and you can still survive in CQB

Edited by Pluto is a planet
adding stuff

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Yeah they’re good how they are because it takes a bit more skill to use them! When a public player joins the squad and picks sniper stright away I ask if he can swap to AT or medic and they usually always leave the squad because all they want to do is play sniper with no mic on their own!!! 

 

So making it harder to use and master is good! We have 2 or 3 guys in the clan who can play sniper well 

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I'd say about 70% of players who automatically take marksman are a) idiots b) really bad  generally c) don't play the class well or add much value to the squad at all

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8 hours ago, TheRed said:

I'd say about 70% of players who automatically take marksman are a) idiots b) really bad  generally c) don't play the class well or add much value to the squad at all

So?

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So it stands to reason that enabling this for many is probably not a priority!

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2 hours ago, Thegreenzzz said:

So?

So they take the kit opportunity from someone who was pre-planning and thinking all the skills they were going to use to stay alive, thinking about how they can get over watch on attack and defend cap flags.  Even if a player has been playing for 3 years it doesn't make them good at anything, someone could play for 3 years and not get any better by making the same mistakes. So even when those people take the sniper kit its a waste of the kit, its a waste of someone who isn't good to get shot at by enemy to divide fire and attention. The skills required to play sniper effectively such as individual movement techniques, combat techniques of fire, angle of fire corrections for elevated positions shooting over long range, acoustic ranging, crack thump method, extreme target determination, target zone memorization, speed of acquiring and identifying enemy targets. Booby traps, artillery, METT-TC. There are people who learn all these things and more to play this game effectively then they need to deal with a bunch of Call of Duty, CS:GO, Battlefield raised players who only want to lone wolf without thinking of their next move. There could be cover to the left and right of these people to move cover to cover from, but they don't even know that simple method. Why should they have a marksmen kit taking it away from a more skilled player? With as much as these noobs miss they are better off taking a regular rifle.  

 

Knowing what effect your position will have and how to communicate relay through your squad leader to other squad leaders. A marksmen, a good one is a squad leader within a squad who can be smarter than the real actual squad leader who made the squad in thinking and giving orders that will keep friendlies alive better through the marksmen understanding of terrain, the current enemy status at objective etc. So say if the marksmen says "go around the objective outside visual distance to the west side, lots of terrain to move behind over there over to the objective close. Get in the edge of cap and stage a fire fight if you cant out cap, get them to show themselves to our western push side so I can pin them with sniper fire then you walk up on them. Tell the other squads to hold their push till they hear gun shots or tell the other squads to stage a firefight to distract enemy". Things like that. Look up and save the Squad v12 and Project Reality 1.5 teamwork playlist for training in over 20+ skills.

Edited by Grump/Gump.45

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I mean, basically, yes.

With that caveat that I have no problem with people who aren't amazing playing kits. I don't subscribe to the noob or git gud things at all. But I do think people should attempt to play in a way that's positive, for the squad and for the team. Obviously having a great sniper is fantastic if you want to utilise them, but they shouldn't assume the role of proxy SL because they can see a lot, even if they're good. They should be a resource. Those automatically trying to be a sniper are fine, but for one thing, it shouldn't be their job to operate completely without any interest in what the SL wants or is trying to achieve, and for another, if the SL doesn't really want a sniper, that should be respected as well. At least there should be communication about this issue. Anyone can defend the right of players to do as they want, and yes, provided the server and everyone else lets them, fine - but I just believe the game is best played when everyone pays at least some heed to it being what the devs intended, as in, a cohesive, teamwork and comms oriented experience. It's a bigger discussion but the best communities exist where those within it understand the dynamic between a communal responsibility for their own and other's enjoyment.

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When you want to go full sniper the biggest issue is that its require a lot of coordination with your SL and you can rarely find that in a random squad. A good marksman can cover the advance of the squad and provide them with info about the enemy. But you almost never gets the time to find the proper position and the squad will charge in long before you can provide the cover for them. Most SL:s also never request any intel from you so at best you can report what you see and hope that he do something useful with the info you give him.

A marksman also have to keep up with the squad so you cannot spend too much time finding a good spot. For most offensive situations the marksman is best used as a pure marksman, fighting with the squad but maybe a bit behind them and engaging enemies at longer range. While defending the marksman works best when he have a position ~150-250m away from the object and with a good overview so that he can cover a large area of the enemy approach and more or less deny them access to that area. This requires some very decent sniping skills though as you have to be able to land hits on running targets at those distances.

Edited by Pluto is a planet
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On 1/17/2019 at 8:45 PM, Armored Bobby said:

can we make these snipers more stable with a bypod please the recoil on them is crazy and no one likes to use them because they aren't even one shots which they should be

It’s important to recognize that these aren’t snipers. Getting over semantics, both DMR’s are extremely accurate and stable standing up, un realistically stable. I would like bi pods to be added as to nerf the stability of shooting accurately standing up, but making bipod shots extremely accurate.

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I dunno why we are still to this point of the game angry that people pick certain classes and do it in a way that is not what one person personally does. It's fine whatever anybody picks doing whatever, there literally isn't a set defined way to do things. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Pmikey said:

I dunno why we are still to this point of the game angry that people pick certain classes and do it in a way that is not what one person personally does. It's fine whatever anybody picks doing whatever, there literally isn't a set defined way to do things.

That is true for the Battlefield games of this world but not really for one that pushes teamwork & communication like Squad. 

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4 hours ago, Pmikey said:

I dunno why we are still to this point of the game angry that people pick certain classes and do it in a way that is not what one person personally does. It's fine whatever anybody picks doing whatever, there literally isn't a set defined way to do things. 

 

 

So its fine by you that your 2 medics run off by themselves playing rambo instead of staying with the squad healing and reviving your squad mates?

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I don't really care if my 2 medics run off and do their thing. I haven't ever seen two medics run off and do that in any game I've played. That's an exaggeration. Having a medic on your squad limits the amount of firepower you can bring to the fight anyways. I'd actually rather have some other types of weapons than a medic bag. 

 

The game pushes teamwork and communication yet that does not mean there is one way to play one way to do things. If there really is only one way you need to communicate and work together in squad, only one type of mold you must choose whenever you are making squads and trying to win the game, I don't really see that as a good thing but something extremely poor. 

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong in the game in picking different classes. Running no medic is a wonderful way to add more bullets into bodies. Having a marksmen is great too. 

 

Don't be a lone wolf and it's probably gonna work out for ya. 

 

 

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Feel that's rather understanding an area that can be important for a lot of players who think with a strategic bent. Still, it's fine to play within reason how you want, of course. But I think we were talking about lone wolf shit etc really,  so it seems you've agreed. I and many others want to play, even casually, an experience that can be a little tactical,  a little cohesive... and only really object to players who actively harm the game everyone else wants to play. 

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On 1/19/2019 at 7:55 PM, TheRed said:

I'd say about 70% of players who automatically take marksman are a) idiots b) really bad  generally c) don't play the class well or add much value to the squad at all

 

For me it's pretty much always c)

 

90% of marksman are lone wolves who are giving the game a go. Rarely do they ever have a mic. However, I have encountered some really good ones that play it correctly and when it's done well it's a fantastic role. I think the bipod would emphasise the wrong part of the class (staying still all the time).

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It's a bit the same with the other special classes, especially HAT. A lot of HAT:s are running around and chasing tanks on their own and often they wants a riflemen with them to give them ammo..

Sniper gameplay differs a lot depending on map. On for ex Kohat a sniper can be on a different hill and still provide cover and intel for the squad while on other maps like Logar the distances are very short and you need to be much closer to the squad.

Best use of a sniper imo is to have him use his binoculars to check the squads route for enemies and if needed, kill/suppress them. Often the enemies have taken positions in windows and on roofs and a sniper can greatly reduce their effectiveness.

But as said before, its often hard to be 100% efficient because its requires a high level of coordination that seldom exists. Too often the intel given to the SL pass unnoticed. This is too common:
Sniper: "SL, enemies on your right, 100m"
SL: "...."
Sniper: "SL, enemies on your right, 50m watch out!"
SL: "..."
SL:" AAAAH im getting shot"

But since its hard to be as efficient as a SAS squad i think we have to accept it. Neither snipers or SL are pros and the have often never played together.
As for the bipods i really dont see that that will improve the sniper gameplay in any way. The L86 of the brits have bipods but it doesnt really help much except when using the gun as a light MG. For sniping its better to not use the bipods in most situations.
Sniper: "....."

Edited by Pluto is a planet
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Yeah I’ve started to instantly kicking pubs who pick sniper after about 10 in a row with no mic and not playing with the squad 

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