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Dat mangos

inconsistency with tank armour profiles?

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I have been running tanks ever since they arrived on the scene. My crew and I thought we had everything figured out and under control after just a few rounds,however battle after battle has left us all,more and more puzzled.

The first 3 or 4 rounds of squad that we played that involved tanks,we were able to figure out that the T72 has amazing front Armour,and can normally take on an Abrams as long as you angle the tank down,and hit the Abrams in the front center plate. We verified this by playing as the Abrams for some time. We also concluded hitting a T72 in the rear,side,or lower center front plate,could wreck it in short order. So every thing is fine right? We know each tank has weaknesses and strength,this is perfect. Wrong.

It was some time later,after 12 or 15 rounds we started running into an anomaly,every now and then,we would meet an Abrams that seemed to have totally different Armour weakness zones. For instance,the "eye" of the tank (where the gun mounts to the turret) is normally a weak spot,and could render the tank dead after a few hits,was now bouncing shots right off it. At first we thought this was due to the attack angle E.I. us being to low to impact solid. But it continues,and after using Kornet launcher extensively,I noticed the same issues there. Some times I can kill an Abrams with 2 rockets,other times it takes 5 or 6. As far as I can tell the angles are not an issue,and if the explosion graphic can be trusted,I am hitting the same spots on the tank.

This is frustrating,because it seems to be random,and takes away from the skill of tank fighting,when suddenly a tank is much stronger,and you have no way of knowing until you engage.

Going to the firing range is no help,as the tanks there seem to have no Armour at all,and can be killed extremely easily.

So I have to ask if this is intentional? Has anyone else noticed this? Is server health a big part of it? Where can I get a true read out of the tanks Armour profiles? is there a plan to normalize tank impacts in the future?

 

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On 1/10/2019 at 12:20 AM, Dat mangos said:

I have been running tanks ever since they arrived on the scene. My crew and I thought we had everything figured out and under control after just a few rounds,however battle after battle has left us all,more and more puzzled.

The first 3 or 4 rounds of squad that we played that involved tanks,we were able to figure out that the T72 has amazing front Armour,and can normally take on an Abrams as long as you angle the tank down,and hit the Abrams in the front center plate. We verified this by playing as the Abrams for some time. We also concluded hitting a T72 in the rear,side,or lower center front plate,could wreck it in short order. So every thing is fine right? We know each tank has weaknesses and strength,this is perfect. Wrong.

It was some time later,after 12 or 15 rounds we started running into an anomaly,every now and then,we would meet an Abrams that seemed to have totally different Armour weakness zones. For instance,the "eye" of the tank (where the gun mounts to the turret) is normally a weak spot,and could render the tank dead after a few hits,was now bouncing shots right off it. At first we thought this was due to the attack angle E.I. us being to low to impact solid. But it continues,and after using Kornet launcher extensively,I noticed the same issues there. Some times I can kill an Abrams with 2 rockets,other times it takes 5 or 6. As far as I can tell the angles are not an issue,and if the explosion graphic can be trusted,I am hitting the same spots on the tank.

This is frustrating,because it seems to be random,and takes away from the skill of tank fighting,when suddenly a tank is much stronger,and you have no way of knowing until you engage.

Going to the firing range is no help,as the tanks there seem to have no Armour at all,and can be killed extremely easily.

So I have to ask if this is intentional? Has anyone else noticed this? Is server health a big part of it? Where can I get a true read out of the tanks Armour profiles? is there a plan to normalize tank impacts in the future?

 

Yes, tank armor is indeed broken. Most games I play with an Abrams crew generally succeeds against T72's, we've taken out 4 before we have gone down. The Abrams DU Chobham armor in real life is much superior than the T72B3's, but in game, there is no consistency on which armor is superior.

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Are you taking into account the angle of your attack? Your mention of bouncing seems to indicate you might want to try from another angle, especially if you're not penetrating from the front, thickest armor on the vehicle. There was recently a pretty thorough AT test done by the community to verify armor is working as intended, and responds appropriately: 


Which doesn't rule out the possibility of a bug, of course. We've had an issue in the past with vehicle templates inheriting some information improperly, but that should have been resolved. If you can, try to capture what's happening in a video. Shadowplay, Fraps, OpenBroadcastStudio, and Xplit are all highly used and documented ways of capturing a clip, and Shadowplay may be easiest of all if you're running on Nvidia. We (and the community) can take a look from there.

 

If you happen to notice any common threads, like Woodland camo, or it only happens on certain layers, that could very well point us in the right direction too.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Gatzby said:

 -

Hey Gatzby, the thread on that Reddit link was done in the firing range, as the edit describes, thus making it inaccurate.

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11 minutes ago, nagasuru said:

Hey Gatzby, the thread on that Reddit link was done in the firing range, as the edit describes, thus making it inaccurate.

Go back and reread the title of the thread. It is literally about how it is not that.

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Hey Gatzby, sorry about that. I see this now, for some reason, the link on my laptop wasn't going directly to Reddit, so I used my phone to catch the link that brought me to the post of improper data. I assume because of your response, these numbers were fully intended. However, I feel there is a possibility of inconsistency in these numbers. Just to clarify, and I am not sure when this even happened, but previously, a T72 wouldn't be destroyed let alone burning from a TOW missile to the rear, and it would take maybe 9 to kill from the front. I assume this was the problem resolved in 12.2. Getting aside from tank versus tank however, I don't think its reasonable for a 120mm Sabot or HEAT from the Abrams should have a problem with destroying any APC in one shot, rather than 2. I mean in reality, a sabot here, might be overkill against something like an MTLB, as they have been known in the gulf war to have over penetration, where the round literally just stay together from one side out the other. This is most likely too complex of a system for squad, as the sabot is just a damage value, it doesn't have special properties because of its a game. But to me, a T72 and M1A2 should be able to kill all APC's like Strykers and BTR's in one shot regardless of the ammo type. Thanks, Gatzby for actually replying on these issues though, +props (: 

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19 hours ago, Gatzby said:

-

Thanks a ton,I have been paying attention to angle,and it seems to not be a factor,most common map for this to occur on is Tallil outskirts.
Bouncing is not consistent,several times I have seen what looked like good hit,or explosions,yield no damage to hostile MBT.

I wonder if maybe server health and connection to server is effecting our shot placement? I will try to capture some footage and come back with that.

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Omg, please stop quoting Gatzby every time you reply to him. The post he quoted takes forever to scroll through.

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58 minutes ago, fatalsushi said:

Omg, please stop quoting Gatzby every time you reply to him. The post he quoted takes forever to scroll through.

Fixed replies and Gatzby's almighty Reddit link ;)

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Not considering whether this is a bug, which will get fixed, I am not sure if this randomness is all that bad.

 

Wouldn't this kind of randomness be realistic to a degree? Maybe the scale of randomness (2 Kornet to 6 Kornet to kill Abraham under the same circumstances) can be adjusted. If this RNG (random number generator) would be a feature, it would not take anything away from skills because part of having skills would be accounting for the worst RNG situations. If anything, the possibility of lucky ammo carriage shot (apart from skill ammo carriage shots by marathoning HAT crew) is kind of RNG that is way too punishing that takes away skills from engagements in my opinion. 

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On 1/17/2019 at 1:14 PM, pigsoup said:

Not considering whether this is a bug, which will get fixed, I am not sure if this randomness is all that bad.

 

Wouldn't this kind of randomness be realistic to a degree? Maybe the scale of randomness (2 Kornet to 6 Kornet to kill Abraham under the same circumstances) can be adjusted. If this RNG (random number generator) would be a feature, it would not take anything away from skills because part of having skills would be accounting for the worst RNG situations. If anything, the possibility of lucky ammo carriage shot (apart from skill ammo carriage shots by marathoning HAT crew) is kind of RNG that is way too punishing that takes away skills from engagements in my opinion. 

The issue is,in the event that a tank gets the drop on an enemy one,there is still potential that tank one could lose,and never had a chance to begin with. If tank one fired 3 times with no effect,and tank two fired 3 times with effect,then its GG,and the skill is removed from the equation.

With no way to know if you are shooting sabot or confetti,the tank game is really frustrating.

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