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PR-Deer

Feedback from old PR dev :)

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Posted (edited)

I just figured that i have played PR and this about 13 years, and now after 1 year of playing Squad i thought to give some feedback even tho some old PR devs didnt really like me in the end  :P

 

Game looks and sounds very good, animations are superior and very very very detailed :D vehicles sound and look cool. And maps have views where you just gotta stop and stare at it for a moment because it looks really cool. Effects are super detailed and really make epic moments in the gameplay even more special. Music and video trailers are perfect for this type of game, watching em on youtube really makes you wanna try the game.  And i just love what you did with the player placeable fortifications, thats something what i have not seen in other game at all. Players being able to design and build their own fortress and then see it being attacked is probably one of biggest things compared to other similar war games. I hope all this is making squad very successful :)

 

But most positive thing i have seen in your game is that you have been open minded for new gameplay ideas to a point where you even implemented old conquest gamemode, a mode what all of us wanted to get rid of back in the days(including me). Thats the reason i even got encouraged to try give any feedback at all, that and my highest respect on IRONTAXI to pull this all together and make it success, you are a hero ! :)  

 

Im only assuming that you are trying your best to make the game sell well, unlike with PR where we didnt care about how big the playerbase is going to grow, thats why i would like to suggest the same thing i always do ^^ 

Make more gamemodes = attract more players and make more sales ;) 

 

What i mean with it is that milsim-level of complicated gameplay system doesnt attract all types of players. Would it really be that horrible if you would make a gamemode that is little bit more simplier to play and learn as an addition to current modes. Less restrictions on vehicles usage(like less vehicles would need crewman kits), simplier spawning system (spawning on squad leaders or inside APCs, and get rid of rallypoints but keep the hubs), easier resupply, more supplies on vehicles so there is no need for supply runs so often, and other little details like that. 

 

Especially the spawning on SL and APCs would make the gameplay function as designed even if all the players would be 80yo grandmothers, the most casual ppl on earth and prove is that battlefield franchise has always used similar system(not saying they are all grannies tho). We had this gameplay back in PR 0.5 and it was super popular, playerbase basicly exploded. I believe same could still work in squad. What could you lose by doing it, the current gamemodes would still be there.

 

Even if you dont like that idea, please keep trying new gamemode ideas, some of them might becomes super popular ^^ 

 

- ex[R-Dev]Deer

 

 

Edited by PR-Deer

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14 minutes ago, PR-Deer said:

I just figured that i have played PR and this about 13 years, and now after 1 year of playing Squad i thought to give some feedback even tho some old PR devs didnt really like me in the end  :P

 

Game looks and sounds very good, animations are superior and very very very detailed :D vehicles sound and look cool. And maps have views where you just gotta stop and stare at it for a moment because it looks really cool. Effects are super detailed and really make epic moments in the gameplay even more special. Music and video trailers are perfect for this type of game, watching em on youtube really makes you wanna try the game.  And i just love what you did with the player placeable fortifications, thats something what i have not seen in other game at all. Players being able to design and build their own fortress and then see it being attacked is probably one of biggest things compared to other similar war games. I hope all this is making squad very successful :)

 

But most positive thing i have seen in your game is that you have been open minded for new gameplay ideas to a point where you even implemented old conquest gamemode, a mode what all of us wanted to get rid of back in the days(including me). Thats the reason i even got encouraged to try give any feedback at all, that and my highest respect on IRONTAXI to pull this all together and make it success, you are a hero ! :)  

 

Im only assuming that you are trying your best to make the game sell well, unlike with PR where we didnt care about how big the playerbase is going to grow, thats why i would like to suggest the same thing i always do ^^ 

Make more gamemodes = attract more players and make more sales ;) 

 

What i mean with it is that milsim-level of complicated gameplay system doesnt attract all types of players. Would it really be that horrible if you would make a gamemode that is little bit more simplier to play and learn as an addition to current modes. Less restrictions on crewman kits for example, simplier spawning system (spawning on squad leaders or inside APCs, and get rid of rallypoints but keep the hubs), easier resupply, more building supplies on vehicles so there is no need for supply runs so often, and other little details like that. 

 

Especially the spawning on SL and APCs would make the gameplay function as designed even if all the players would be 80yo grandmothers, the most casual ppl on earth and prove is that battlefield franchise has always used similar system(not saying they are all grannies tho). We had this gameplay back in PR 0.5 and it was super popular, playerbase basicly exploded. I believe same could still work in squad. What could you lose by doing it, the current gamemodes would still be there.

 

Even if you dont like that idea, please keep trying new gamemode ideas, some of them might becomes super popular ^^ 

 

- ex[R-Dev]Deer

 

 

I brought up these points about making some simpler traditional game modes like TDM without role restrictions etc. years ago to attract a more diverse player base and was roasted over the coals and informed that it would instead dilute and fracture the community. Good luck with that though.

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10 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I brought up these points about making some simpler traditional game modes like TDM without role restrictions etc. years ago to attract a more diverse player base and was roasted over the coals and informed that it would instead dilute and fracture the community. Good luck with that though.

I have got the same answer over a decade now ^^ But now different ppl are in charge and they may see things differently. Playerbase being fractured is bad excuse imo, attracting more different types of players makes playerbase much bigger in general, and bigger it gets the more ppl are telling their friends about the game, this brings money, and makes all gamemodes have more players. 

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2 minutes ago, PR-Deer said:

I have got the same answer over a decade now ^^ But now different ppl are in charge and they may see things differently. Playerbase being fractured is bad excuse imo, attracting more different types of players makes playerbase much bigger in general, and bigger it gets the more ppl are telling their friends about the game, this brings money, and makes all gamemodes have more players. 

One would think. However, all of my sons can't stand Squad and call it "that slow, boring board game for old folks"...

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Hello Deer. Glad to hear about your opinion from the perspective of a former PR Dev. I love both games (I consider PR an entire game by itself), as well as the old BF2 game. Former BF2 dev Eggman was also active in this forum a long time ago and it's just nice seeing people still being around and at somewhat reach. The whole "they or those didn't like me in the end" ... well... that's personal issues with different opinions colliding on the internet. Happens all day, glad to see you still identify to being a former driving factor of PR, I'm happy for everyone who contributes in those projects.

Just my 2 cents on your person, thanks for the service o7

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@PR-Deer Totally agree with you sir. It´s good to see someone from the PR community can see whats over the Horizon.

 

2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I brought up these points about making some simpler traditional game modes like TDM without role restrictions etc. years ago to attract a more diverse player base and was roasted over the coals and informed that it would instead dilute and fracture the community. Good luck with that though.

Yeah I remember mate,I stated somethink like that in 2015...Still searching for my Balls. xD

I know some of our Devs/XDevs played DeltaForce/JointOps, so they must know that "Variety is the Spice of Life" TDM/TD/AAS...

 

583033-917867_20040709_008.jpg

 

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could be the same thing as sitting in the middle ground of milsim/arcade ..if you choose to develop all game mode types are you in danger of being jack of all trades and master of none?  Thus the player base is fractured across servers that are playing the modes they like and making it difficult to fill a lot of servers up... 

Edited by embecmom

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2 hours ago, embecmom said:

could be the same thing as sitting in the middle ground of milsim/arcade ..if you choose to develop all game mode types are you in danger of being jack of all trades and master of none?  Thus the player base is fractured across servers that are playing the modes they like and making it difficult to fill a lot of servers up... 

Having more choices of maps, layers on those maps combined with all the standard original game modes couldn't hurt anything has always been my point. People like having lots of choices. Why do you think there's an entire CS:GO community thats much larger than the entire Squad community playing nothing but 24/7 Freestyle Rap Battle Surfing if it's not for choices?

 

 

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23 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Having more choices of maps, layers on those maps combined with all the standard original game modes couldn't hurt anything has always been my point. People like having lots of choices. Why do you think there's an entire CS:GO community thats much larger than the entire Squad community playing nothing but 24/7 Freestyle Rap Battle Surfing if it's not for choices?

 

 

CSGO is a very different community and size of player base and it had a large player base from just counterstrike, Squad being a more niche product, I think you would be more likely to see full servers begin to lose players to other servers they like the game mode of but not see additional players filling the vacated spots.  In essence you bastardise your traditional community ...it happens now with Insurgency mode.. as soon as that map comes on you see umpteen disconnects a server will half.   If you begin to provide different game modes then you could see the same thing or a thinning out of the player base.  Im not suggesting that there is not a need to expand on what is there but with such a small community there is an inherent danger of to much choice not enough players.  Ultimately it could be handled by modding.

Edited by embecmom

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On 1/9/2019 at 8:26 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

One would think. However, all of my sons can't stand Squad and call it "that slow, boring board game for old folks"...

I've been trying to play fortnite with my son but I cant cope with the slowness of it.

 

Load game. Run around, find a gun. Walk toward the circle for a few mins with nothing to do. Die. Repeat.

 

At least in squad I can have some control over this gameplay loop, even if it means swapping to a squad with a rally in the action or setting up a new attack from main.

 

Funny that kids would call squad slow. I now refuse to play fortnite because it is too slow for me :) I bought him an xbox instead so I can beat his ass with old school special moves and combo button mashing. Ill teach him about gaming from there.

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While a few more gamemodes could be nice, personally I very much disagree with the OP with adding gamemodes that change the way the game fundamentally plays. At least when it comes to official game modes, by all means go make a mod for whatever you want.

 

But this just sounds like watering down the whole experience and something that would lead to a lot of wasted time from confused players as they go from one mode to another and have wildly different experiences. embecmom also said it well in that you end up fracturing the already fairly small community into even more shards. Not something they should strive for imo.

Edited by Chompster

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I don't buy the argument that if there were simplistic gamemodes that the existing playerbase would fracture. I think they'd be used for seeding, it'd be great to have TDM or some basic mode for small layers on existing maps, the community essentially tries to ad hoc this now. "Everyone fight over mosque until 20 v 20. No Armor". And if there was enough interest to have servers running other gamemodes 24/7? Fine by me. They'd be filled with the people who wanted to play it, who would most likely be new. The people playing Sqaud now, are the people who like the present style of play, they'd still play like that. 

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46 minutes ago, Chompster said:

While a few more gamemodes could be nice, personally I very much disagree with the OP with adding gamemodes that change the way the game fundamentally plays. At least when it comes to official game modes, by all means go make a mod for whatever you want.

 

But this just sounds like watering down the whole experience and something that would lead to a lot of wasted time from confused players as they go from one mode to another and have wildly different experiences. embecmom also said it well in that you end up fracturing the already fairly small community into even more shards. Not something they should strive for imo.

A another user put it you invest a bunch of time and effort into creating a mod then it sits on the shelf gathering dust. Unless it becomes part of the official game its just another person being creative which is ok too I guess.

 

That said, now that the game has a roughly 4 year history of great sales but basically flat growth regarding player counts as graphed by Steam Charts one could draw the opposite conclusion that maybe more game modes could in hindsight have kept more players around. 

 

Bottom line, I personally know one entire clan of 50+ people that shut down their servers and have basically left the game primarily because of the features and attributes that were removed from v9 AAS. Considering that fact alone one could certainly speculate that at least bringing back a competitive mode based on v9 AAS would bring them and others back nevermind the fact that integration of traditional modes like TDM & CTF could attract existing key holders and new players alike. There's a reason Subway has more than one sandwich and Ford offers other colors besides black on their cars.

 

Just reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry tells George that if everything he's been doing with women his whole life has been wrong then he needs to do the opposite. So then the next hot blond he meets he tells her he's bald, overweight, unemployed and lives with his parents and he instantly gets a date with her.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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Hey Deer - good to see you here :) IIRC you did maps back in the PR days.

 

I think the OWI guys need to be careful about player's experience if the game modes are too diverse in the way they play. Meaning if I jump in and play TDM which lets vehicles spawn every minute, versus the next server I go to is slow paced AAS and 20 minute respawns on vehicles... that can create a confusing and incongruent player experience.

 

I remember back in the PR days there was a gaming community that took PR and modified the shit out of it... it played nothing like our game. But it still showed up in the server list like any other PR server. We politely asked them to cease that, but they refused. Eventually it got a bit nasty and resulted in us implementing a requirement for server licenses for PR and removing a bunch of modability from the server.

 

I don't think it's such a concern of fracturing the player base, but making sure the player experience with Squad is congruent and does not deviate from the soul of the core Squad experience as the dev envisioned it to be.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, eggman said:

Hey Deer - good to see you here :) IIRC you did maps back in the PR days.

 

I think the OWI guys need to be careful about player's experience if the game modes are too diverse in the way they play. Meaning if I jump in and play TDM which lets vehicles spawn every minute, versus the next server I go to is slow paced AAS and 20 minute respawns on vehicles... that can create a confusing and incongruent player experience.

 

I remember back in the PR days there was a gaming community that took PR and modified the shit out of it... it played nothing like our game. But it still showed up in the server list like any other PR server. We politely asked them to cease that, but they refused. Eventually it got a bit nasty and resulted in us implementing a requirement for server licenses for PR and removing a bunch of modability from the server.

 

I don't think it's such a concern of fracturing the player base, but making sure the player experience with Squad is congruent and does not deviate from the soul of the core Squad experience as the dev envisioned it to be.

 

 

Fantastic post - former PR Mod here so I am used to seeing posts like this in discussion - nice to see it here. 

 

This essentially sums up my apprehension about mod tools and modding in general in Squad. 

 

I am all for it in theory, but the some things may need limiting, and the details will need to be made explicit when players are joining servers otherwise it will be a crazy messy experience. Kinda like ArmA was, and how fractured it became. 

 

That said, the game is still developing now, gameplay chances since V12 have been fantastic, notwithstanding the terrible sway nerf in 12.1 that will hopefully be fixed going forward. I understand the devs want to keep this game as appealing to the masses as they can, and so they should. But they also need to realise that the majority of players are not in the competitive scene, and IMO they should make a base game, and then give the competitive guys the ability to mod the game how they want. That way the vast majority of the player base gets the game that was intended when announced - a PR successor - and the competitives get their more rushing run and gun gameplay. 

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On 11/01/2019 at 6:00 PM, LugNut said:

I don't buy the argument that if there were simplistic gamemodes that the existing playerbase would fracture. I think they'd be used for seeding, it'd be great to have TDM or some basic mode for small layers on existing maps, the community essentially tries to ad hoc this now. "Everyone fight over mosque until 20 v 20. No Armor". And if there was enough interest to have servers running other gamemodes 24/7? Fine by me. They'd be filled with the people who wanted to play it, who would most likely be new. The people playing Sqaud now, are the people who like the present style of play, they'd still play like that. 

thats completely different weve been asking for a seeding game mode for a while, smaller maps where its more close combat during that period.. we have TDM at the moment its just hidden on a larger scale map! I personally miss some of the smaller maps.  I think as we see with new players now they have a very different expectation of how they think a shooter should play, mainly due to their experiences with the likes of COD/Battlefield and insurgency... the whole reason I bought squad nearly 4 years ago was because it wasnt those games ... a risk would be that the TDM mentality influences the more realistic aspects of the game ..i.e faster reloads, ability to change optics/loadout etc...  

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