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Quadro

L85A2 Recoil (British bullpup)

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What is everyone's experience with the L85A2's recoil since the v12.1 patch?

 

Me and a large group of friends popped onto a server together and were adjusting nicely to the new recoil mechanics even though most of my comrades hate the new system. It wasn't until we played the British that we realised something is horrifically wrong with the L85A2 bullpup's recoil. It's atrocious! We all agreed full auto was next to useless unless in confined spaces because the recoil is so aggressive. It's alarming how aggressive it kicks for a bullpup. Bullpup or not it doesn't matter, even for balance reasons it doesn't make sense. The iron sight hasn't much improved and still needs narrowing compared to all other rifles on any side. 

 

I'd love to hear peoples opinion on this.

Edited by Quadro

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I guess no one has a problem with the British, really. They seem very balanced and quite powerful when used correctly. The bullpup is quite enough for me, I don't find the recoil terrible, maybe a little wavy but it's sufficient for use of combat.

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v12.1 gave the L85 family rifles lesser recoil, than the M4 rifles - I definitely feel the change, you don't have to pull your mouse down as much, compared to the M4, which is a nice change with the addition of making the Irons easier to use.

I think a lot of people aren't used to the Iron sight on the L85, which in end makes it harder for them to keep the sights on target - Kind of gives an illusion of more recoil.

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Oh fair enough then. Must admit I'm a little surprised that your experiences are the opposite. Interesting how me and a group of friends all found it so difficult to yours, not quite sure why that is to be honest. I respectfully can understand that the iron-sight can give the illusion of more recoil but I'm one of those weirdos who prefers the iron sight over any optics. I don't have the same experience with the AK iron-sight or any other iron-sight in the game from other rifles or at least for those standard modernised army rifles.

 

Question is, if there is an illusion of more recoil using the L85, then why is it in the game in the first place? Surely an illusion is precisely what it is, an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience. So in that case, something is wrong.

 

I can only go based of my own experiences but I'm still convinced something isn't quite right with the L85 iron-sight, there is a disconnect to what your gun is doing in relation to what is actually happening in the background creating an illusion.

Edited by Quadro

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well with most of the L85s you don't get SUSAT and have to use ironsights, soo only fair. the ironsights are dreadful and iv use them IRL and there still shit, hence why the British army has SUSATs on everything xD

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8 minutes ago, MrJJuK said:

well with most of the L85s you don't get SUSAT and have to use ironsights, soo only fair. the ironsights are dreadful and iv use them IRL and there still shit, hence why the British army has SUSATs on everything xD

 

So I've heard! They are awful guns but if we're going to implement real life characteristics then why is it that the T72B3 can hold its own against the Abrams? It's for balance reasons.

 

There is always a fine balance between implementing real life and balance and looking at Squad, balance takes president.

 

Edited by Quadro

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but the Americans get a red dot on everything and an x4 on the LMG, and the British don't it's unfair. 

 

I know its stupid no idea why they didn't put the T90 in at least, the t72 is dreadful to use anyway. broken turret, stabilizing doesn't work the turret moves while the commander is moving. 

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14 minutes ago, Quadro said:

 

So I've heard! They are awful guns but if we're going to implement real life characteristics then why is it that the T72B3 can hold its own against the Abrams? It's for balance reasons.

 

There is always a fine balance between implementing real life and balance and looking at Squad, balance takes president.

 

Balance should be achieved through other means than weapon system manipulations. 

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2 hours ago, Quadro said:

Oh fair enough then. Must admit I'm a little surprised that your experiences are the opposite. Interesting how me and a group of friends all found it so difficult to yours, not quite sure why that is to be honest. I respectfully can understand that the iron-sight can give the illusion of more recoil but I'm one of those weirdos who prefers the iron sight over any optics. I don't have the same experience with the AK iron-sight or any other iron-sight in the game from other rifles or at least for those standard modernised army rifles.

 

Question is, if there is an illusion of more recoil using the L85, then why is it in the game in the first place? Surely an illusion is precisely what it is, an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience. So in that case, something is wrong.

 

I can only go based of my own experiences but I'm still convinced something isn't quite right with the L85 iron-sight, there is a disconnect to what your gun is doing in relation to what is actually happening in the background creating an illusion.

Here's a video I just made, with out recoil control, and with recoil control. The M4 has more pull to it's vertical recoil and a higher rate of fire. The L85 gets lesser vertical recoil, due to it's grip and lower rate of fire.


I think I know what the issue is - In v12.1 weapons with foregrips have lessened vertical recoil & slightly increased horizontal recoil, in addition to the weapon family recoil behavioural changes. The L85 sits in the middle of the AK74 and M4 in terms of base weapon recoil, with the AK74 having the lowest of the three, and the M4 having the most of the three. 

The US have three rifleman options
-M4 Red dot
-M4 Iron Sight + Foregrip
-M4 ACOG

The RU have three rifleman options
-AK74 1P63 (Short range optic)
-AK74 Iron Sight
-AK74 1P78 (Mid Range optic)

The MIL and INS AK Rifleman have no grips.

The U.K have the Irons with grip pod, and the L85 ACOG with no grip pod. The chances of you as a U.K rifleman, having iron sights + grip pod is high. Not being used to the obstructive iron sights of the L85, and having the horizontal recoil increase with the grip pod, and there you have the weird increased recoil feeling.

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1 hour ago, MrJJuK said:

but the Americans get a red dot on everything and an x4 on the LMG, and the British don't it's unfair. 

 

I know its stupid no idea why they didn't put the T90 in at least, the t72 is dreadful to use anyway. broken turret, stabilizing doesn't work the turret moves while the commander is moving. 

 It is fair, Brits get a bipod for damn near every weapon, medic gets a susat. Its just the bipod isn't used as much.

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it's a bipod grip, which i never use. id rather have a SUSAT when i go LAT or HAT. so i can actually shoot infantry xD

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4 hours ago, Dubs said:

Here's a video I just made, with out recoil control, and with recoil control. The M4 has more pull to it's vertical recoil and a higher rate of fire. The L85 gets lesser vertical recoil, due to it's grip and lower rate of fire.


The U.K have the Irons with grip pod, and the L85 ACOG with no grip pod. The chances of you as a U.K rifleman, having iron sights + grip pod is high. Not being used to the obstructive iron sights of the L85, and having the horizontal recoil increase with the grip pod, and there you have the weird increased recoil feeling.

 

Thanks for doing that Dubs. I think you're bang on the money in what I've been experiencing. Thinking about it now that definitely was what I believe me and, my friends were experiencing in a prolonged firefight trying to cap a point as the British. Horizontal recoil is a real task to master especially when re-enquiring your target after each shot. Short range isn't really a problem but mid to long range is really problematic. 

 

This might be up for debate but I don't think the vertical recoil with the L85 isn't all too dissimilar to the M4 and AK comparatively. Even if the vertical recoil is better on the L85, dealing with the vertical AND the horizontal recoil characteristics of the L85 really make target reacquisition very difficult.

 

It's a great standard feature to have  bipods for the L85 but I think it's a bit of a non-beneficial curse when most engagements are not started in the prone position and not to mention bipods restrict movement. So the bipod is only an advantage in a very select few situations.  Always giving the upper hand to other rifles from a general use perspective.

 

I'm not suggesting optics as a fix or anything of that nature. This is just a observation of the L85. 

 

There have been plenty of forum discussions about getting the ACOG back for rifleman but I don't think that's wise because it made it over powered. Hence why the devs removed it from the main rifleman role.

Edited by Quadro

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I don't think this particular gunplay issue is high on peoples list of things to care about when you consider how much they broke sway in 12.1 and 12.2, unfortunately. Hopefully this game-play gets fixed soon and essentially at worst, gunplay gets reverted back to v12 where sway and suppression work in conjunction for better fire fights, or ideally it gets made EVEN BETTER with more sway and suppression, particularly when low on stamina. 

 

The current implementation saw sway nerfed by probably 65-80% I reckon over the previous v12 values, to a point that there is almost no sway and the lazer beam accuracy has essentially made suppression moot, destroying team based gameplay in favour of a run and gun fast pace style of play. 

 

IMO.

Edited by Jeepo

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For me in v11 and before recoil had a constant rate of rise but now in v12 it seems to ever increase between rounds the longer you hold full auto, therefore you must steadily increase the speed in which you compensate?  I preferred the way it was in v11.

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On 12/13/2018 at 9:52 AM, MrJJuK said:

it's a bipod grip, which i never use. id rather have a SUSAT when i go LAT or HAT. so i can actually shoot infantry xD

Can you even use bipods anymore? I ask for MG and get chewed out because everyone says bipods are broken. If all the L85's have bipods (and they get fixed eventually so you can actually use them on any surface) then that would be strong.

 

Also, more of those coveted optics with the medic having one.

 

EDIT: So I had to rebind the bipod key, but it turns out they work (at least in the training range)

Also, the British Army indeed has a bipod on just about every gun o.O Hot damn. Bipods and optics British army is my fav now.

An interesting bug is that when I hit control (crouch) either hold it or even briefly before bipodding, my bipod is fixed. I can't change direction at all (only vertically, not horizontally) but if I'm standing and do it it works as intended.

Edited by Arduras

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On 13/12/2018 at 4:28 AM, shipidge said:

I guess no one has a problem with the British, really. They seem very balanced and quite powerful when used correctly. The bullpup is quite enough for me, I don't find the recoil terrible, maybe a little wavy but it's sufficient for use of combat.

Sure but it would be even more controlable and accurate with your follow up shots.

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On 12/23/2018 at 2:21 AM, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Has anyone much experience shooting this rifle on full auto IRL? I recon quite few have because you don't use these rifles on full auto much for prolonged periods of time.

I bet your right, we argue about guns but not many of us have shot them

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