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Zylfrax791

Armor Penalty

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So the standard modus operandi now is quickly form an armor squad, lock it at 3, windsprint to the MBT's first, rush to the central flag and then recklessly get your turrent blown off, respawn at main then wait for the armor to respawn by doing parkour and target practice for 20 minutes all the while acting like you're "entitled" to the next MBT "cuz we're the Armor squad bruh".

 

This doesn't seem correct. Losers shouldn't be rewarded they should instead be penalized. Once you lose an MBT you should be locked out of the Crewman class in order to give others a chance.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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Then how are they supposed to get better if they can't play it?

Add on to this that the most experienced crew can be caught off guard and you'd have a punishment for doing nothing wrong.

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"They" Exactly my point. And how is anyone else on your team supposed to get a turn and get their "experience" when [YOLO ARMOR] squad keeps getting rewarded for not communicating with their other squad leaders and foolishly wasting the MBT's?


I don't know what the current vehicle cooldown is but the game already previously punished you for you losing a Stryker or BTR based on a set time period. All I'm saying is based on the fact that the tank takes much longer to drive out of Main and get into the action the cooldown should be based on a numerical value not set time period.


With MBT's it should be "One And You're Done." Admins on one NA server I play on are already mandating this btw so it's not really my idea but like every other feature I think things should be built into the game not have to be enforced by active admin and supplemental rules.

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I don't agree here, if people want to make a MBT squad, i let them have it for the entire match, but at times when their tank is destroyed, i ask of them to do something else to help the team in the meantime, transport, logi run, mortars etc... If others want to form a MBT squad they can discuss that with the current one or wait for the next match.

If it's an MBT squad that doesn't communicate or just trolls around, then yeah i understand, as an admin i'll make sure to create my own MBT squad then to replace them personally.

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2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

"They" Exactly my point. And how is anyone else on your team supposed to get a turn and get their "experience" when [YOLO ARMOR] squad keeps getting rewarded for not communicating with their other squad leaders and foolishly wasting the MBT's?


I don't know what the current vehicle cooldown is but the game already previously punished you for you losing a Stryker or BTR based on a set time period. All I'm saying is based on the fact that the tank takes much longer to drive out of Main and get into the action the cooldown should be based on a numerical value not set time period.


With MBT's it should be "One And You're Done." Admins on one NA server I play on are already mandating this btw so it's not really my idea but like every other feature I think things should be built into the game not have to be enforced by active admin and supplemental rules.

 

-1

 

This whole idea is just mind numbingly bad. The game shouldn't impose any additional penalty on losing vehicles, not when the ticket value and respawn times are as costly as they are, not even mentioning the fact the asset in question is no longer in play to render assistance to the team. If admins want to regulate armor squads that are showing to be incompetent in their effectiveness, that's one thing.

 

But automatically locking you out of a role for the entirety of the match for a single death and leaving the asset to now be manned by an entirely new crew (whose skill set could be even worse than the previous crew) is just asking for hilariously awful outcomes. What happens exactly when you run out of people who want to crew the vehicle since now everyone else will be infantry and those that want to crew can't because they're locked out? Do those tanks and APCs just sit in main in timeout while the team in question just gets steam rolled? 

Edited by Dockside Bars

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This is exactly my issue with Squad, whilst I love the game its still focused on TDM more than anything ... nothing really tactical... the game should impose a penalty on those that waste vehicles... you lock squad get tank... kill a few people and maybe a vehicle and die.... respawn take Stryker same result ... until you have made your way through wasting as many vehicles as die spawn will allow...  its the reason I detest vehicles...

 

Someone had a good idea to give vehicles a separate ticket counter.. so when the counter is 0 no more vehicles...I would say that it should have a separate armour counter... you take tank from spawn and 100 tickets are debited .make it expensive as hell.. lose the tank your ticket pool is down 100..drop it back to main and the tank tickets are added back to the pool.. or you might not have enough tickets left to take another... but the thing is losing a vehicle cant lose you the game because its not coming from the attrition pool... so that numpty that drives into full enemy cant do anymore damage to the team than losing the vehicle when low on tickets..

 

my preferred solution is rewarding squads with acheivement points (snowflakes will love this ITS A REWARD)... you do stuff you earn pts to spend on vehicles/ammo drop things like that... you take a vehicle out and it gets destroyed in seconds... you didnt earn enough pts to get another one .. so you have to take something else and work hard .... .. and for those that think they just create a new squad...nope... once the round starts any squad starts at zero acheivement pts.  i before e but cant be bothered changing it...  

Edited by embecmom

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1 hour ago, Dockside Bars said:

 

-1

 

This whole idea is just mind numbingly bad. The game shouldn't impose any additional penalty on losing vehicles, not when the ticket value and respawn times are as costly as they are, not even mentioning the fact the asset in question is no longer in play to render assistance to the team. If admins want to regulate armor squads that are showing to be incompetent in their effectiveness, that's one thing.

 

But automatically locking you out of a role for the entirety of the match for a single death and leaving the asset to now be manned by an entirely new crew (whose skill set could be even worse than the previous crew) is just asking for hilariously awful outcomes. What happens exactly when you run out of people who want to crew the vehicle since now everyone else will be infantry and those that want to crew can't because they're locked out? Do those tanks and APCs just sit in main in timeout while the team in question just gets steam rolled? 

Well, by the time the MBT actually leaves main and gets into the AO the existing penalty has already expired. How does that make sense? Couple that with the fact that once the MBT gets destroyed the folks that lost it are waiting the 20-25 minutes back at Main in vulture hover mode around the empty spawn spot. How is that efficient or fair?

Edited by Zylfrax791
Punctuation.

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4 minutes ago, embecmom said:

This is exactly my issue with Squad, whilst I love the game its still focused on TDM more than anything ... nothing really tactical... the game should impose a penalty on those that waste vehicles... you lock squad get tank... kill a few people and maybe a vehicle and die.... respawn take Stryker same result ... until you have made your way through wasting as many vehicles as die spawn will allow...  its the reason I detest vehicles...

 

Someone had a good idea to give vehicles a separate ticket counter.. so when the counter is 0 no more vehicles...I would say that it should have a separate armour counter... you take tank from spawn and 100 tickets are debited .make it expensive as hell.. lose the tank your ticket pool is down 100..drop it back to main and the tank tickets are added back to the pool.. or you might not have enough tickets left to take another... but the thing is losing a vehicle cant lose you the game because its not coming from the attrition pool... so that numpty that drives into full enemy cant do anymore damage to the team than losing the vehicle when low on tickets..

 

my preferred solution is rewarding squads with acheivement points (snowflakes will love this ITS A REWARD)... you do stuff you earn pts to spend on vehicles/ammo drop things like that... you take a vehicle out and it gets destroyed in seconds... you didnt earn enough pts to get another one .. so you have to take something else and work hard .... .. and for those that think they just create a new squad...nope... once the round starts any squad starts at zero acheivement pts.  i before e but cant be bothered changing it...  

Exactly. Some other system is needed to reward success and punish failure. As it stands nobody is bragging about losing the Abrams or T-72 let alone even fessing up to it. If you just happen to have the map open and notice it doing spirals and then wink out you yourself can be cognizant that your teammates just lost it otherwise you probably won't know because of the action.

 

The only other solution would just go full arcade and remove all ticket loss from vehicles, drop the respawn period to 5 minutes and then make increase the flags size and ticket win/loss values plus reintroduce bleed again.  

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@embecmom

So you just want to get planetside 2 all over my beautiful squad? I'd rather prefer that those kind of gamey aspects are not too prevalent to squad. Through the idea of limited vehicle replenishment does sound interesting, but I'd change the generic ticket pool to a set limit on respawns for the asset instead so you don't get shafted out of logis because a couple of APCs blew up.

 

@Zylfrax791

I'd rather keep a direct reward and punishment system out of Squad. It'd just make it like any other FPS game and give meaningless perks and shit to people for just doing next to nothing. And sure you can punish people, but I'd rather keep punishment out of automated systems and in to the hands of admins as automation is careless and just gives bans. Meanwhile you might have a legitimate reason for the tank blowing up, such as psychics glitches, an ambush, a shitty team that doesn't communicate that there are mines or enemy tanks, or a tow somewhere. Just kicking them out of it just because they might've gotten unlucky or the other team is way more skilled is just bad altogether.

 

And if you keep rotating crews because they die you'd eventually just have no crews left over as they're all busy doing inf stuff, or logistics or whatever. Not everybody in this game wants to play the tank, some just want to play inf as a squadleader, and by restricting the player pool that can use the tank after a while you also deprive the team of an asset due to not everybody being willing to drop whatever they're doing to play in some tank. And thus the tank is still collecting dust but earlier than others stated as nobody can be arsed to take it over except the people who'd like to but can't.

 

Add on to this the problem of new players, sure they rush and die quickly but there really isn't much of a way to learn other than public servers. The training servers that are usually unpopulated or not don't help as they are either clan restricted or need some mods.

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Well, by the time the MBT actually leaves main and gets into the AO the existing penalty has already expired. How does that make sense? Couple that with the fact that once the MBT gets destroyed the folks that lost it are waiting the 20-25 minutes back at Main in vulture hover mode around the empty spawn spot. How is that efficient or fair?

Rarely do I see people lingering around in main once they lose assets. They usually have enough situational awareness to contribute in other aspects while their asset respawns. Is that always going to occur? Of course not. But if the server has admins that are worth a damn, they'll probably remind them to go out of main and do something productive. 


Arbitrary penalty systems are only going to hurt this game in the long run. With the eventual addition of more varied armored vehicles and helicopters, the balance of power on the battlefield is going to be smoothed out. Competent teams are going to be the deciding factor in a match, and not a single asset.  

 

 

 

 

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If a tank on your team instantly gets destroyed it really doesn't automatically mean that the crew was bad. It's player vs player after all, the guys on the other team might just have outsmarted them, or accidently gotten behind them and blew up the engine, and then the ammo storage. I've had a few times i got wrecked in the first five minutes, but the second time i took the MBT in the same match i survived the rest of the round. This is the main reason for me to be heavily against such automated restrictions.

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3 hours ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

If a tank on your team instantly gets destroyed it really doesn't automatically mean that the crew was bad. It's player vs player after all, the guys on the other team might just have outsmarted them, or accidently gotten behind them and blew up the engine, and then the ammo storage. I've had a few times i got wrecked in the first five minutes, but the second time i took the MBT in the same match i survived the rest of the round. This is the main reason for me to be heavily against such automated restrictions.

Certainly it doesn't automatically mean the crew was bad. I've lost vics many times over 4k hours but it was typically after pitched battles where I took away more tickets and as always I was trying to be conservative and cautious.

 

That said, in your opinion when does it actually mean they're bad though? After they cook off the second one or third one like I've already seen occur many times over the course of numerous matches? Honestly it doesn't matter to me one bit it just seems a bit odd for the game mechanic to punish the entire team by rewarding careless behavior like embecmom has pointed out in numerous different threads related to the futility of medic revives being cancelled out by noobs wasting vics.

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It's easy to see when a tank crew is bad for me.

-No communication.

-Rolling straight into the flag.

-Ignoring any advice or intel on enemies, so basically just not caring at all.

 

Whenever i'm in a tank crew i usually stay back a bit untill we get intell on enemy armour, now even then it sometimes still happens that we get blown up simply because the enemy crew is either better, had a better position, or was simply lucky.

Three times in a row yeah, that's a bit odd, but it should not take a game mechanic to fix that. Instead server admins just kind of need to regulate it imo, since everyone has different idea and solutions.

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19 hours ago, liamNL said:

@embecmom

So you just want to get planetside 2 all over my beautiful squad? I'd rather prefer that those kind of gamey aspects are not too prevalent to squad. Through the idea of limited vehicle replenishment does sound interesting, but I'd change the generic ticket pool to a set limit on respawns for the asset instead so you don't get shafted out of logis because a couple of APCs blew up.

never played planetside so no idea... but did say armour pool not logi etc....its not as gamey as a rally or fob tbh... its logistics supply ... managing assets ... atm its an unlimited supply based on the legnth of the round.

 

18 hours ago, Dockside Bars said:

Arbitrary penalty systems are only going to hurt this game in the long run. With the eventual addition of more varied armored vehicles and helicopters, the balance of power on the battlefield is going to be smoothed out. Competent teams are going to be the deciding factor in a match, and not a single asset.  

 

 

 

 

its nothing to do with balance of power, its about who is using up the assets at a rate unsustainable to the rest of the team...the team is subsidising a vehicle crews waste ... I dont like that because its not a two way thing... 

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Just note vehicle loss/kill in the scoreboard. Simple, keeps all the abuse and blame to the end of the round :)

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