Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I know this has been discussed in other threads. After looking through several forums and searching repeatedly I couldn't find an established thread on the subject. Perhaps we don't need so many similar forums???? 

Anyway, as a bunch of people have noted, the sight picture when ADS is wrong. No one who expects to hit their target holds a weapon out at arms length. Scopes & sights are supposed to ASSIST aiming not make it harder. Right now, while some people have amazing aim that defies my understanding, the majority of us find a target and try to aim but end up shooting in their general direction. This does not match the tactical nature of the game. In fact it goes against everything else in the game. 

I hope this will be changed, and significantly. The sight picture when ADS in Squad, currently, looks nothing like any type of weapon handling I have done and I've fired a lot of different weapons. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this has been discussed in other threads. After looking through several forums and searching repeatedly I couldn't find an established thread on the subject. Perhaps we don't need so many similar forums???? 

Anyway, as a bunch of people have noted, the sight picture when ADS is wrong. No one who expects to hit their target holds a weapon out at arms length. Scopes & sights are supposed to ASSIST aiming not make it harder. Right now, while some people have amazing aim that defies my understanding, the majority of us find a target and try to aim but end up shooting in their general direction. This does not match the tactical nature of the game. In fact it goes against everything else in the game. 

I hope this will be changed, and significantly. The sight picture when ADS in Squad, currently, looks nothing like any type of weapon handling I have done and I've fired a lot of different weapons. 

 

I take it you're talking about the aimpoint? The ACOG and the Ironsights are fine.. It's been discussed heavily in many different threads with many many complaints. But if they changed it to normal, people would complain that they can't see in CQB.

 

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/3082-a-discussion-on-sights/

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/3103-i-wont-attempt-any-shots-over-30-meters/

 

To name a couple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this has been discussed in other threads. After looking through several forums and searching repeatedly I couldn't find an established thread on the subject. Perhaps we don't need so many similar forums???? 

Anyway, as a bunch of people have noted, the sight picture when ADS is wrong. No one who expects to hit their target holds a weapon out at arms length. Scopes & sights are supposed to ASSIST aiming not make it harder. Right now, while some people have amazing aim that defies my understanding, the majority of us find a target and try to aim but end up shooting in their general direction. This does not match the tactical nature of the game. In fact it goes against everything else in the game. 

I hope this will be changed, and significantly. The sight picture when ADS in Squad, currently, looks nothing like any type of weapon handling I have done and I've fired a lot of different weapons. 

 

I sort of agree with OP.  Having fired many weapons in the military in various situations (long range, close quarters) the sights in ADS seem to far from the shooters eye.   It almost forces you to go full automatic as it seems very difficult to take accurate ADS shots in single fire mode.   When it comes to CQB and ADS it's natural to lose some of your peripheral vision that is why you usually go in to those areas with a buddy or two (covering those blind spots you can't see).  Sorry in advance if I shouldn't have continued this thread (as there are others?) but just weighing in as a newcomer to SQUAD.  Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Single fire is pretty much useless right now. 

CQB is going to be hard no mater what in a video game. Making everything else a crap shoot doesn't seem like a good solution. 

Perhaps instead of holding shift to come into a somewhat reasonable view, having two states of ADS one for CQB and one for all other ranges of engagement. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I suggested exactly this and I think it's the way they should go, the current sight set up or something similar could be the CQB stance and the 'long range' stance could haeva  far bigger picture + Zoom and also slow the Player's movement down.

 

Right now, while some people have amazing aim that defies my understanding,

 

 

I'm also left perplexed sometimes when i'm consistently hit and killed from ridiculous distances. Like it's really hard to actually land hit's at the those distances even with the ACOG but somehow Insurgent's with un-scoped Weapon's manage it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dev hat on:

Until we implement a better solution, the sights will stay as is, anything else we've tried, such as bringing the sights in closer, only makes things worse. Unfortunately, we all have to deal with it for the time being.

 

Competitive FPS gamer and military veteran hat on:

I still come out in the top five almost every match and consistently rail people on semi-auto. Instead of blaming the system, look inside yourself and see what you need to do to improve.

 

This is coming from a fellow gamer and not a game developer. The average player will continue to be average until they decide to stop blaming everything else and start looking internally and figuring out what they need to do to get better. 

 

If you know that people consistently hit you accurately at long range, but you can't, it's you, you need to improve, obviously the other guy adapted better than you and is now beating you. Figure out how and why and learn from it.

 

If you are willing to adapt and accept responsibility for your own failings and want to get better, you will get better.

Edited by SgtRoss
This is just life advice in general, really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dev hat on:

Until we implement a better solution, the sights will stay as is, anything else we've tried, such as bringing the sights in closer, only makes things worse. Unfortunately, we all have to deal with it for the time being.

 

Competitive FPS gamer and military veteran hat on:

I still come out in the top five almost every match and consistently rail people on semi-auto. Instead of blaming the system, look inside yourself and see what you need to do to improve.

 

This is coming from a fellow gamer and not a game developer. The average player will continue to be average until they decide to stop blaming everything else and start looking internally and figuring out what they need to do to get better. 

 

If you know that people consistently hit you accurately at long range, but you can't, it's you, you need to improve, obviously the other guy adapted better than you and is now beating you. Figure out how and why and learn from it.

 

If you are willing to adapt and accept responsibility for your own failings and want to get better, you will get better.

 

I'm having deja vu. I feel like you've said this exact thing before. [like maybe word for word, copy pasta?]  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm having deja vu. I feel like you've said this exact thing before. [like maybe word for word, copy pasta?]  :lol:

 

And I will continue to engage the community. I would rather be honest and as transparent as reasonably possible, then leave you guys angry and wondering.

 

I have to play this game too, I want to play this game, I do play this game with you guys every weekend. I experience the same things you all are and I understand. Not everyone knows what I know and not everyone has seen what others have seen. If I have to repeat myself a thousand times I will. I might get frustrated and annoyed, but that won't stop me from continuing to engage the community and try to build an awesome game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this has been discussed in other threads. After looking through several forums and searching repeatedly I couldn't find an established thread on the subject. Perhaps we don't need so many similar forums???? 

 

 

I'm having deja vu. I feel like you've said this exact thing before. [like maybe word for word, copy pasta?]  :lol:

We've got too many forums here and though I search for things using words that I know were in the topics the topics are not found. I searched for a while and decided since I couldn't find it that others probably couldn't find it. 

 

Dev hat on:

Until we implement a better solution, the sights will stay as is, anything else we've tried, such as bringing the sights in closer, only makes things worse. Unfortunately, we all have to deal with it for the time being.

 

Competitive FPS gamer and military veteran hat on:

I still come out in the top five almost every match and consistently rail people on semi-auto. Instead of blaming the system, look inside yourself and see what you need to do to improve.

 

This is coming from a fellow gamer and not a game developer. The average player will continue to be average until they decide to stop blaming everything else and start looking internally and figuring out what they need to do to get better. 

 

If you know that people consistently hit you accurately at long range, but you can't, it's you, you need to improve, obviously the other guy adapted better than you and is now beating you. Figure out how and why and learn from it.

 

If you are willing to adapt and accept responsibility for your own failings and want to get better, you will get better.

Yesterday I stopped trying to use the weapon properly and just pointed the barrel at people and sprayed. My score when up dramatically from when trying to aim properly. I'm glad that you guys are not settled on this current state. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I will continue to engage the community. I would rather be honest and as transparent as reasonably possible, then leave you guys angry and wondering.

 

I have to play this game too, I want to play this game, I do play this game with you guys every weekend. I experience the same things you all are and I understand. Not everyone knows what I know and not everyone has seen what others have seen. If I have to repeat myself a thousand times I will. I might get frustrated and annoyed, but that won't stop me from continuing to engage the community and try to build an awesome game.

 

You're doing an excellent job, sir. One of the best game devs I've ever had the joy of coming in contact with. Keep it up.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Yesterday I stopped trying to use the weapon properly and just pointed the barrel at people and sprayed. My score when up dramatically from when trying to aim properly. I'm glad that you guys are not settled on this current state. 

 

Same here. It's not that I don't get good scores (quite often i'm the top player in my Squad, after adopting similar tactic's) it's just that the sighting system makes it feel quite run and Gun atm, which for what this Game is trying to achieve and the Gameplay it's going for should not be the case. I think maybe these tactic's work due to the inconsistent hit detection, like sometimes it seem's if you hit near someone it'll register as a hit.

 

And the thing about long range shooting in this Game in it's current state is that straining to see tiny Distant target's and accurately track them with iron sight's cannot be good for your eye's the way it's implemented. If that's the trade off to mastering this system, i'd rather not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dev hat on:

Until we implement a better solution, the sights will stay as is, anything else we've tried, such as bringing the sights in closer, only makes things worse. Unfortunately, we all have to deal with it for the time being.

 

How so? Just curious as how it's considered worse. I'm looking for details.  ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How so? Just curious as how it's considered worse. I'm looking for details.  ^_^

 

It'll cause the Aimpoint to look the same, only take up over half your screen. True first person system prevents us from creating effective sights, this is why there is severe tunneling with optics that are physically long, you are literally seeing the inside of the optic itself.

 

We are going to have do some smoke and mirrors to get it to look right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

We are going to have do some smoke and mirrors to get it to look right.

We'll get there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm having deja vu. I feel like you've said this exact thing before. [like maybe word for word, copy pasta?]  :lol:

 

Nah only because there are like 15 billion threads about it. I've stopped answering entirely. If people want a developer response on the topic, all they have to do is:

 

1. Use search bar

2. Read the actual damn threads

3. Read what we say instead of asking questions about what was explained 3 posts above them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah only because there are like 15 billion threads about it. I've stopped answering entirely. If people want a developer response on the topic, all they have to do is:

 

1. Use search bar

2. Read the actual damn threads

3. Read what we say instead of asking questions about what was explained 3 posts above them

What search terms should I have used? 

Because I spent 15 minutes searching for Dev comments on the subject and couldn't find any. I read a bunch of threads in the bunch of forums. Really not interested in having to read "15 billion threads" in order to find your info. Perhaps you could organize these forums if you are finding that you have to repeat information so often. Perhaps you could create a FAQ of questions which are frequently asked...  I'm sorry it was such an inconvenience to you. 

Have a nice night. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I apologize for any offense I may have done, and my choice of words were poor.

 

I just cant play a game without people asking about this. I've created topics about it myself in the progress part of the forum even.

 

People are caught up in aiming their gun in a pre-alpha game, and I get why they are so passionate about it as it is their primary interface of interacting with the game world.

 

It just gets old real fast.

 

Even 6 months ago before people were playing.

 

I meant nothing against you or anyone in particular, and again I apologize to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

blaming the ADS, although I don't use the aimpoint frequently I find it more than realistic, go buy one and tell me I'm wrong,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah only because there are like 15 billion threads about it. I've stopped answering entirely. If people want a developer response on the topic, all they have to do is:

 

1. Use search bar

2. Read the actual damn threads

3. Read what we say instead of asking questions about what was explained 3 posts above them

 

Eh. That's why I try and answer every question about this and many other topics I see. The people deserve an answer, but it doesn't have to be from you guys. That's why I try and stay informed about all that is going on. I think the other regulars and I have done a pretty good job at keeping people informed so far. Don't worry about it; you guys are doing a great job. Some of us are just as nuts about this as you guys are. [Well, as much as we can be. :P]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

blaming the ADS, although I don't use the aimpoint frequently I find it more than realistic, go buy one and tell me I'm wrong,

 

The M68 Aimpoint sucks in real life, indeed. But, we do want it to be somewhat usable, so when we get a solution for all of our sights, then we can touch it up a bit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What search terms should I have used? 

Because I spent 15 minutes searching for Dev comments on the subject and couldn't find any. I read a bunch of threads in the bunch of forums. Really not interested in having to read "15 billion threads" in order to find your info. Perhaps you could organize these forums if you are finding that you have to repeat information so often. Perhaps you could create a FAQ of questions which are frequently asked...  I'm sorry it was such an inconvenience to you. 

Have a nice night. 

Yeah, I've done the same thing. Tried to search for similar posts on forums but found none, ended up with a lil' hostility, but it's normal cool, I mean, people get tired of writing the same thing over and over, but the fault isn't ours tho.

But yeah, the ADS is not quite what I was expecting, talking about the M68 Aimpoint, in PR it is just a pain in the ass to use it, you just try to shoot at the general direction of where you think the enemy is located, not fun nor realistic eh?

A simple solution that every game out there made -that has some optics sights- is getting the Sight closer to the eye. 

Example 1

Example 2

 

The problem I can see is that, it gets virtual 2x zoom by bringing the sight closer, so would need make adjustments on other Sights (or am I wrong?).

Picking up real examples from SQUAD Gameplay, you can see that this video (older), the sights were just perfect, you could actually see through them.

But in this one... eh... I can barely see at what I'm actually aiming.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They used to use a dual rendering thing which was very resource intensive. What they have now isn't great but at least it keeps the frame rates up. 

When asked why simply zooming in wasn't the best solution Sgt Ross gave a good, simple, direct, answer about some challenges and what they are doing about it here: http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/3506-sight-picture-when-ads/#entry64688

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since Squad is using a true "third person to first person" view system (an approach that I *really* like), it may be helpful to look at how one mod addressed the scope view issue for Arma 3 (another game that uses a similar player view perspective that's tied directly to the player model).  

 

TMR found a way to combine 2D with 3D sights and I think it looks very true to life while being very user friendly on the input/control side.  In my opinion, the Arma gunplay is so much more consistent and satisfying with the mod enabled and quite frankly, I find it a chore to play the game without it.

 

Obviously Squad is [thankfully] running on a completely different engine, but I wonder if a similar approach could be adopted?

 

EDIT: Note that he's pulling off this effect without any sort of dual rendering system in place, which I know is what the devs are aiming for (pun intended).

 

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpD2D4B6DWc

 

And pics

maxresdefault.jpg

 

ML4K461.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't seem like a bad way of doing it. I like the idea of fully simulated 3D scope's, but Game-play over visuals for me every time when it comes to in-game Weapon's. I imagine 2D scopes like that would help keep the frame-rate as smooth as possible when sighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×