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NaCly

Why I dont want Helicopters

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While I don't believe they'll add choppers with no counter, you do however still have AT, apc, tank and mg to take it out with. Hell if you want you could probably take one out with an IED.

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I'd love to see a video of a guy on a motorcycle take down a helicopter with IED lol!

In the end it doesn't matter why people do or don't want helicopters, they will come to Squad and change the game completely.

Edited by Guan_Yu007

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Helicopters will change the whole game for good. If you have not played Project Reality, then you can not understand how important they are. Now the main system of troops' transportation is only this "arcade" system of rally points. With helicopters (especially transport helis) the whole game will become more tactical and strategic. I strongly believe that PR has so much balance between gameplay and tactical cooperation and I hope to see that balance at squad as well..

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they won't be in every map because that would be silly, but would be nice to have different versions like with the new map tali, 1 version with tanks and 1 without which makes it a change of pass. I think transport helis will be ok but as soon as Attack heli's are in its going to be a shit show xD

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Just you wait, I tell you that ;)

 

Bigger maps and different layers will change everything. Learnt from the past.

Edited by TopeH

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I don't think that helos are in the scope of what squad was attempting to be, I think that the fact that they were even conceived was because project reality had them so squad must have them  too.

 

while light vehicles fit nicely, the progressively heavier vehicles kind of feel out of place with the pacing and map design of the game. honestly, i think the BEST matchup (as in most fun to play) is the INS vs Militia on Basarah, (give us an AAS layer with that matchup on NARVA). 

 

finish the game before you start with the bloat.

Edited by Randall172

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57 minutes ago, Randall172 said:

I don't think that helos are in the scope of what squad was attempting to be, I think that the fact that they were even conceived was because project reality had them so squad must have them  too.

 

while light vehicles fit nicely, the progressively heavier vehicles kind of feel out of place with the pacing and map design of the game. honestly, i think the BEST matchup (as in most fun to play) is the INS vs Militia on Basarah, (give us an AAS layer with that matchup on NARVA). 

 

finish the game before you start with the bloat.

*Obligatory helicopters (and fixed wing aircraft even though the backed out on them being player controlled) were always going to be incorporated into Squad since back in the Kickstarter days post*

image.png

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On 12/6/2018 at 3:27 PM, NaCly said:

I'm a huge fan of Squad and absolutely love the gameplay that it offers. I am all for helicopters being a mod but putting it into the actual game I believe will make it feel more like Battlefield. I love squad because of the infantry tactics you can use with the support of light vehicles. Ever since V12 came out though ive noticed a breakdown in communication between squads because everyone wants to get into a tank and do there own thing. Next thing you know you have 2 maybe 3 full infantry squads trying to work together with 3 other squads with either 2-4 people in them. Its much harder to push objectives and be strategic when you only have 2 infantry squads who are actually playing the objective. 

 

Now this is my complete personal opinion but i feel that adding helicopters will further add to this problem where you only have a limited amount of infantry squads actually playing the objective. Itll create more 2-4 man squads and less full 9 man squads which will make taking objectives harder. 

 

And lets be honest. Adding attack helicopters to this game will completely destroy the use of light armor and squads being able to out maneuver the enemy as they can spot them with thermals from way above. All it takes it one good Attack helicopter team to destroy an enemy team. they can easily destroy logis, armor and infantry from a distance. 

 

I just hate seeing only a couple infantry squads trying to take an objective while theres 3 separate 3 man squads in tanks and then a leftover infantry squad with 5 people in it. 

 

I know I was all over the place but adding helicopters is making this game feel more like battlefield. To me squad thrives on infantry squads coordinating together. With the addition of more vehicles it is taking away the feeling of this tactical type of gameplay between infantry squads. Adding Helicopters will just make the game more unbalanced and make it harder for squads to take the objective with less boots on ground. Like I said before, all it takes is one good attack helicopter team to destroy an entire team.

 

To me it almost seems like there needs to be more people in the game rather than just 40v40. I dont think ive ever been in a game where its 40v40. maybe 38v38 but never 40v40. if you break it down like this you can see how theres less infantry in play. 

 

Squad 1: x9inf

Squad 2: x9inf

Squad 3: x9inf

Squad 4: x2 brad

Squad 5: x2 brad

Squad 6: x2-3 abram

Squad 7:x2-3 helo

Squad 8: x1 logi

 

This breakdown seems like the absolute best outcome. 3 full infantry squads and then a you 4/5 squads that are small support groups. If those support squads could somehow be 1 squad I think there would be better coordination and less carelessness of vehicles being used. 

 

To sum up my rant ill just say that adding Helicopters can make the game very one sided. It will also further takeaway more infantry squads trying to take an objective. 

 

Sounds like a community problem not a game problem. And thankfully there is a helicopter mod so I doubt it will be added to the full game. However, like Arma 2, you had poor communities, you had good communities. It's not really the game.

 

 

Edited by ComplainersFFS

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4 hours ago, Dockside Bars said:

*Obligatory helicopters (and fixed wing aircraft even though the backed out on them being player controlled) were always going to be incorporated into Squad since back in the Kickstarter days post*

image.png

That's awesome. The OP outlined player issues not game issues. Anti social behaviors are controllable by the community itself and not so much game options. Those who fail to communicate will have less of success than those that do take the roles, and communicate and provide support where best.

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9 hours ago, Randall172 said:

I don't think that helos are in the scope of what squad was attempting to be

I know for a fact that they were. They were planned from the kickstarter, but it just takes a lot of time to get the game to a state where they can be properly implemented. Tanks might feel out of place a little bit right now because they don't have all of their counters implemented yet, including attack helicopters.

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Transport helos will improve the gameplay a lot since people still insist on use all trucks as one way taxis and APC as everything-but-APC:s so everyone have to run to their next objective..

i guess that the helos will be quite short lived because they are going to try to fly all the way in to the enemy flag instead of dropping troops in a safer landing zone but people will have to learn the hard way.

My overall impression so far is that tanks arent a big issue at all, they can make your day miserable when they show up but often they are just running around until they gets hit by a LAT or HAT and then they die or retreat.

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On 7.12.2018 at 12:27 AM, NaCly said:

I'm a huge fan of Squad and absolutely love the gameplay that it offers. I am all for helicopters being a mod but putting it into the actual game I believe will make it feel more like Battlefield. I love squad because of the infantry tactics you can use with the support of light vehicles. Ever since V12 came out though ive noticed a breakdown in communication between squads because everyone wants to get into a tank and do there own thing. Next thing you know you have 2 maybe 3 full infantry squads trying to work together with 3 other squads with either 2-4 people in them. Its much harder to push objectives and be strategic when you only have 2 infantry squads who are actually playing the objective. 

 

Now this is my complete personal opinion but i feel that adding helicopters will further add to this problem where you only have a limited amount of infantry squads actually playing the objective. Itll create more 2-4 man squads and less full 9 man squads which will make taking objectives harder. 

 

And lets be honest. Adding attack helicopters to this game will completely destroy the use of light armor and squads being able to out maneuver the enemy as they can spot them with thermals from way above. All it takes it one good Attack helicopter team to destroy an enemy team. they can easily destroy logis, armor and infantry from a distance. 

 

I just hate seeing only a couple infantry squads trying to take an objective while theres 3 separate 3 man squads in tanks and then a leftover infantry squad with 5 people in it. 

 

I know I was all over the place but adding helicopters is making this game feel more like battlefield. To me squad thrives on infantry squads coordinating together. With the addition of more vehicles it is taking away the feeling of this tactical type of gameplay between infantry squads. Adding Helicopters will just make the game more unbalanced and make it harder for squads to take the objective with less boots on ground. Like I said before, all it takes is one good attack helicopter team to destroy an entire team.

 

To me it almost seems like there needs to be more people in the game rather than just 40v40. I dont think ive ever been in a game where its 40v40. maybe 38v38 but never 40v40. if you break it down like this you can see how theres less infantry in play. 

 

Squad 1: x9inf

Squad 2: x9inf

Squad 3: x9inf

Squad 4: x2 brad

Squad 5: x2 brad

Squad 6: x2-3 abram

Squad 7:x2-3 helo

Squad 8: x1 logi

 

This breakdown seems like the absolute best outcome. 3 full infantry squads and then a you 4/5 squads that are small support groups. If those support squads could somehow be 1 squad I think there would be better coordination and less carelessness of vehicles being used. 

 

To sum up my rant ill just say that adding Helicopters can make the game very one sided. It will also further takeaway more infantry squads trying to take an objective. 

 

I believe the problem you are describing has nothing to due with the addition of assets, such as tanks and helicopters.

But more with player attitude and behavior, players who don't understand the teamplay aspect of SQ. Like the example you gave, tanks doing there own thing while the small 5 man squad have trouble to cap a flag. Those 2 could achieve so much together, sadly many people who take vehicles forget the combined arms aspect of the game. Like APC's squads not transporting and supporting the infantry, in search of personal glory.

Sadly this can never be fixed, but i believe with 100 player servers (hopefully next year) this will balance out. With more players on the server, you will have fuller infantry squad.

 

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On 12/6/2018 at 3:27 PM, NaCly said:

Squad 1: x9inf

Squad 2: x9inf

Squad 3: x9inf

Squad 4: x2 brad

Squad 5: x2 brad

Squad 6: x2-3 abram

Squad 7:x2-3 helo

Squad 8: x1 logi

 

This breakdown seems like the absolute best outcome. 3 full infantry squads and then a you 4/5 squads that are small support groups.

 

Great platoon organization and exactly what the devs envisioned in their vertical slice I'm sure. However, a factor you left out of the equation is the supplemental rules that the private servers impose on to the game regarding squad locking. This can vary between 2-4 before locking is allowed depending on the server which literally kills the specialization features the devs built into the game in the first place. So basically now you're down to only two full infantry squads in your breakdown.

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On 13/12/2018 at 1:56 AM, Gadaffi said:

Helicopters will change the whole game for good. If you have not played Project Reality, then you can not understand how important they are. Now the main system of troops' transportation is only this "arcade" system of rally points. With helicopters (especially transport helis) the whole game will become more tactical and strategic. I strongly believe that PR has so much balance between gameplay and tactical cooperation and I hope to see that balance at squad as well..

sigh...the old tune again.. the game will not become more tactical or strategic because..helos... rallies will still exist (for the better) fobs will still exist, trucks will still exist... all the helo is going to do is improve the rush times at the beginning of the match.  ... Good communication and SLs working together is where tactics and strategy start.

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52 minutes ago, embecmom said:

sigh...the old tune again.. the game will not become more tactical or strategic because..helos... rallies will still exist (for the better) fobs will still exist, trucks will still exist... all the helo is going to do is improve the rush times at the beginning of the match.  ... Good communication and SLs working together is where tactics and strategy start.

Agreed. And nevermind that if PR is such a "tactical & strategic" utopia and basically the most perfect game to ever  exist then why are there only a handful of people left playing it? If every single person who ever created a post here expounding the merits of PR was actually still playing PR then that community would be in thousands instead of under 100.

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Play PR. 

 

Realise how it was implemented and understand that Helo's are a good thing, a necessary thing. 

 

Then realise that Squad will take that which worked and probably refine it even further. 

 

And play on better servers if you are finding armour whores are rife on the servers you frequent. 

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

And nevermind that if PR is such a "tactical & strategic" utopia and basically the most perfect game to ever  exist then why are there only a handful of people left playing it?

Because it's old.

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Agreed. And nevermind that if PR is such a "tactical & strategic" utopia and basically the most perfect game to ever  exist then why are there only a handful of people left playing it? If every single person who ever created a post here expounding the merits of PR was actually still playing PR then that community would be in thousands instead of under 100.

 

I even installed PR a while back to see what game Squad sprout from. It was fun but it's hard on the eyes and the clunkyness of bf2 doesn't help it.

The slow pace also makes me prefer Squad, but it is solid. Playing as French vs some kind of RUF kind faction, and as US vs Chinese.

Also learned to not jump out off a chopper untill it has touched down and stopped moving...

Edited by oTec

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I don't think 100 players will solve the boots on the ground problem once helicopters and other vehicles are introduced. An extra 10 players each side isn't enough to make a big enough impact when extra vehicles flying or not are added. Lets just assume that the minimum of extra vehicles that will be added are 3 and lets assume these are what they are for a second..

 

1 x Transport Heli = 1 Player (without side gunner)

1 x Attack Heli = 2 Players

1 x AA Vehicle = 2 Players

Total Players used = 5

 

10 players minus 5 = 5

 

That's 5 players that could be potentially added towards boots on the ground on each side. Is it enough to make a difference? I'm not 100% sure it is.

 

My current experience with v12 is that communication and coordination has decreased dramatically. Vehicles rarely work in conjunction with Infantry. Rare to see three full sized infantry squads.

 

I miss the days when there was regularly four full sized squads, all working together.... 

 

 

Edited by Quadro

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3 hours ago, embecmom said:

sigh...the old tune again.. the game will not become more tactical or strategic because..helos... rallies will still exist (for the better) fobs will still exist, trucks will still exist... all the helo is going to do is improve the rush times at the beginning of the match.  ... Good communication and SLs working together is where tactics and strategy start.

 

2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Agreed. And nevermind that if PR is such a "tactical & strategic" utopia and basically the most perfect game to ever  exist then why are there only a handful of people left playing it? If every single person who ever created a post here expounding the merits of PR was actually still playing PR then that community would be in thousands instead of under 100.

Well I myself love PR but cant really get into it anymore because of the graphics and old engine and because Squad is really getting there since v10. (In PR you had to duck jump over objects/walls  like in squad before v10... so yeah it is kinda clunky nowadays)

 

What you are saying tactic wise is simply not true, transport/supply choppers in PR made the game so much more tactical and deep. Just drop troops way out somewhere in the map or quickly drop a crate on a position where a supply truck would never make it to... so much possibilities with the birds. Also dropping troops on rooftops of bigger buildings was a thing! (though we never got fast ropes... but hey we will in Squad... right?! RIGHT?!) :)

 

Just my 2 cents

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4 minutes ago, Quadro said:

I don't think 100 players will solve the boots on the ground problem once helicopters and other vehicles are introduced. An extra 10 players each side isn't enough to make a big enough impact when extra vehicles flying or not are added. Lets just assume that the minimum of extra vehicles that will be added are 3 and lets assume these are what they are for a second..

 

1 x Transport Heli = 1 Player (without side gunner)

1 x Attack Heli = 2 Players

1 x AA Vehicle = 2 Players

Total Players used = 5

 

10 players minus 5 = 5

 

That's 5 players that could be potentially added towards boots on the ground on each side. Is it enough to make a difference? I'm not 100% sure it is.

 

My current experience with v12 is that communication and coordination has decreased dramatically. Vehicles rarely work in conjunction with Infantry. Rare to see three full sized infantry squads.

 

I miss the days when there was regularly four full sized squads, all working together.... 

 

 

But not all maps will have all assets on it, like sumari will always be INF seeding map, tallil will be tanks and helos and chora will be APC only.

 

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7 minutes ago, Axel said:

But not all maps will have all assets on it, like sumari will always be INF seeding map, tallil will be tanks and helos and chora will be APC only.

 

 

I was expecting that comment :P

 

Developers are focusing on larger maps for the foreseeable future which will only increase number of games played with all assets. Just because some maps will or won't have all assets doesn't make the feet on the ground problem.. not a problem..

Edited by Quadro

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Just now, Quadro said:

 

I was expecting that comment :P

 

Developers are focusing on larger maps for the foreseeable future which will only increase number of games played with all assets. Just because some maps will or won't have all assets doesn't make the foot on the ground problem.. not a problem..

Good point.

Do we then have a design problem? Map design? or do we need more then 100 players?

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