Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Skidborg

Rally Waves Increase Squad Separation

Recommended Posts

There's a fundamental flaw with wave respawns: they end up separating a squad way more than they bring it together.  What formerly could be a span of a few seconds usually becomes a minimum of 60 between the first player back on their feet and the last.

 

An example: As an SL, my squad got into a bad firefight, and was wiped out.  Six gave up immediately because they didn't want to risk missing the spawn wave, completely wasting the possibility of revivals.  I died and decided to check the map out for a few seconds, and marked the enemy infantry that was mowing us down.  That delay of a handful of seconds before giving up made me miss the spawn wave.  The remaining two players had done the right thing and waited for a revive until it was obviously hopeless.  They also missed the spawn wave, and then realized they could immediately respawn at the distant fob, instead of waiting 60 more seconds.

So six of my squad members landed at the rally, without a leader. They spread out and pursued their own objectives.  Two of them dropped almost halfway across the map, leaving the squad without LAT support. But the time I spawn in a whole minute later, squad cohesion had been lost completely. 

 

So yes, the wave spawns allow a handful of troops to spawn together.  However, that's really only important in a tiny fraction of scenarios.  Far more often, it leaves my squad cut in half.  Worse, it's unpredictable unless someone keeps a constant eye on the wave timer.  I do not have time as an SL to micromanage when my troops hit the respawn button, and I shouldn't be punished with full minute delays and extra ticket losses for failing to do that.

Potential fixes: Put the rally timer somewhere prominent in the SL HUD. It's super tacky, but it would eliminate a lot of guesswork.  Better yet, allow the SL to block rally respawns until they're ready to deploy the new troops.  That would allow the SL to control casualties, and increase cohesion as the squad deploys at a precise moment, after the SL has time to instruct the troops on their next set of maneuvers. 

Alternately, we could revert to the old rally system.  It had its own set of flaws, but it was comparatively simple to deal with.  Plus rallies were agile, and were perfect for throwing down for an unexpected flanking maneuver.  Players weren't punished for waiting for a new rally to be placed or waiting to be revived.

And honestly, the new rallies have left such a bad taste in my mouth I'd be okay with just removing them entirely at this point.  They're basically inferior FOBs that are more complicated, and not much would be lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would honestly prefer rally points to be changed to how PR does it, where the rally point itself only exists for 60 seconds and is meant to rally the troops, unless it is placed within the radius of a fob (400m radius) in which case it will not expire until overrun. But I think the v12 adjustment phase the current implementation is alright. 

 

I do think that having the rally wave timer(s) visible to either the SL or members could be a quality of life improvement, or as you said allow spawn blocks by the SL. But that does mean having to micro-manage spawns more than you were complaining about above. 

 

The easiest solution to the problems you faced above is just to be a little bit more of a hardass about it in my opinion, make your squad members ask you where they should spawn, and if they spawn in before the rest of you, that's tough cookies, they wait at the rally and guard the perimeter while doing so :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, with the professional troops all would be well.  But this is Squad, where you get handed nine impatient randos and have to make the best of it.  It's not always that bad, but that scenario was made way worse than it should have been.

 

My main issue is that the change set out to solve a problem and instead of actually solving anything, it fragmented it into several other, more complicated problems that aren't any smaller than we had before.  And as a side effect punished several positive behaviors like waiting for a medic that were so difficult to foster in the playerbase in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Psyrus said:

I would honestly prefer rally points to be changed to how PR does it, where the rally point itself only exists for 60 seconds and is meant to rally the troops, unless it is placed within the radius of a fob (400m radius) in which case it will not expire until overrun. But I think the v12 adjustment phase the current implementation is alright. 

 

I do think that having the rally wave timer(s) visible to either the SL or members could be a quality of life improvement, or as you said allow spawn blocks by the SL. But that does mean having to micro-manage spawns more than you were complaining about above. 

 

The easiest solution to the problems you faced above is just to be a little bit more of a hardass about it in my opinion, make your squad members ask you where they should spawn, and if they spawn in before the rest of you, that's tough cookies, they wait at the rally and guard the perimeter while doing so :)

please no .... Squad is already a walking simulator lets not extended 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Skidborg said:

As an SL, my squad got into a bad firefight, and was wiped out.  Six gave up immediately because they didn't want to risk missing the spawn wave

Why are you blaming the game for players action?

 

15 hours ago, Skidborg said:

So six of my squad members landed at the rally, without a leader. They spread out and pursued their own objectives.  Two of them dropped almost halfway across the map, leaving the squad without LAT support. But the time I spawn in a whole minute later, squad cohesion had been lost completely. 

So because you cant be decisive enough and either cant get your squad to listen to you, or just kick those from your squad who wants to play rambo, instead of working together - you go...its the game thats at fault.

 

Yesterday I stumped my toe against the door frame because I was in a hurry, I blame the contractors because they build my apartment with doors.

 

 

Edited by Jevski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's only asking for a SL time on respawns. Seems very reasonable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jevski said:

Why are you blaming the game for players action?

Simple.  Because of how the game is designed, their actions make sense.  They did the most logical thing.  Doing anything else punishes them with extra dead time, or even more time walking to the action.

 

Here's the old death loop:

1. Get shot.
2. Wait for revive while the spawn timers tick down.
3A. Get revived, conserving tickets AND rally points.
3B. OR respawn instantly after a revive no longer looks practical.

It was pretty easy for players to understand the implications of each choice, and giving up too soon was the only one that would have a negative impact on themselves AND on the team.  It generally rewarded patience with no extra input from the SL.

The new hidden wave respawns add a random factor to the decision making process.  Players can't make sound decisions right now because the most important information is hidden until they've already pulled the plug. The only thing they know for sure is that if they wait, they might miss the spawn wave.  It fosters impatient, luck-based decisions that are detrimental to the team.

 

Edited by Skidborg
Added more arguing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Above link=

 

Reduced spawn time for spawning near your squad mates. Regrouping near the rally/fob/main brings the timer down. Equally, enemies close increases spawn time (as it was in V11). Go alone and feel the timer punishing your dedication to teamwork.

 

So one guy gives up an waits 45 seconds to spawn, he waits near the spawn and so do the next few players, next guy waits 35 seconds, next guy only has to wait 25 seconds, next only 15 and so on. If the whole squad is spawning and all wait near the spawn then the last to go down is able to join with them almost immediately. They wander off together holding hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Jevski said:

Why are you blaming the game for players action?

 

So because you cant be decisive enough and either cant get your squad to listen to you, or just kick those from your squad who wants to play rambo, instead of working together - you go...its the game thats at fault.

 

Yesterday I stumped my toe against the door frame because I was in a hurry, I blame the contractors because they build my apartment with doors.

 

 

when they were talking about waved spawns it was a concern raised that people would give up more quickly, I think this is happening too because you get insta spawn on hab or depending on what time the wave is at they wont wait... I think they shoudl allow the SL to decide when everyone spawns on a rally, ... he opens up the timer ..but people cant give up and use a rally until that timer is activated  by the SL.

 

 to satisfy those that dont like rallies perhaps if the SL dies it cant be activated thus until he is back up no one can spawn in or its back to hab.

Edited by embecmom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×