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Vehicle imbalance

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The US/Rus vehicle balance is quite bad as it is. The Russian side lacks a IFV capable of dealing with the Bradley and to makes things worse the Stryker´s front cannot be penetrated by the Russian 30mm cannon other than if the small vertical nose is hit. On the other hand a 50 round burst with the .50 in the front is enough to kill a BTR. This means that neither the Bradey or the Stryker can be killed with hits in the front by the BTR-82 or MT-LB IFV, leaving the Russian without vehicles to deal with them.

 

There is nothing in a stryker that can stop a 30mm AP round, angled or not, so the damage model should be reworked so that the 30mm round can penetrate the front of the stryker without bouncing. A BMP should also be added to level the playing field.

 

(And of course the Challenger 2 for the brits)

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The issue 30mm vs Stryker and MRAP could be solved by unlocking the full auto fire on the cannon. 

I guess it was made burst fire for balance reason, pre v12. So this could be changed now. 

 

The introduction of Russian IFV then would be the next step. I am hopping for iconic BMP 1 and 2.

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In v12 the 30mm cannon also has recoil now but it seems strange because you fire and the reticle jumps up a half-second later. Don’t know what this delay is all about. Also, do 30mm cannon really recoil this much?

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4 hours ago, Axel said:

The issue 30mm vs Stryker and MRAP could be solved by unlocking the full auto fire on the cannon. 

The issue is only against the Stryker. 30mm pens fine on the MRAP. However, 30mm AP should not be bouncing anywhere on a Stryker. They gave the Stryker too much frontal protection, and severely diminished the efficacy of the 30mm. It has nothing to do with fire rate, you can't pen the front.

 

After the introduction of the Bradley we all accepted that it would be the superior IFV/APC, but at least the 30mm could still deal with Strykers. This past weekend we had 2 capable crews in a MTLB 30mm and a BTR-80 14.5mm, and when a Stryker rushed us he was able to kill us both while we couldn't even get him smoking or engine disabled. You could literally see all of the AP rounds just bouncing off the front and top of the Stryker.

 

And absolutely, the BMP needs to be added to even up the vehicle playing field.

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I wonder if the angle of the Stryker's front is causing bounces? It's at least rated for 14.5mm but I'm not sure of the armor penetration effect of those anyway.

Also both the BMP-2 and BMP-3 wouldn't be any better at killing Bradley etc with its guns, but it would at least have access to Konkurs or Kornet ATGM.

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2 hours ago, Kothra said:

I wonder if the angle of the Stryker's front is causing bounces? It's at least rated for 14.5mm but I'm not sure of the armor penetration effect of those anyway.

Also both the BMP-2 and BMP-3 wouldn't be any better at killing Bradley etc with its guns, but it would at least have access to Konkurs or Kornet ATGM.

As far as infantry anti-tank RPG is considered, I found that a long-range RPG shot hitting the upper-front plate of Warrior would yeild ammo racking effects as the curved projectile would allow it to hit at almost 90 degrees, thus fully penetrating the front plate.  

Edited by Noobgamer

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gotta disagree... no way is the stryker stronger than a 30mm.. and if your shooting its front armour then more fool you... ... you have to get in behind them or at the side... its weapon is not as powerful so I think its just poor command of the vehicle that got you killed.

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16 hours ago, Kothra said:

I wonder if the angle of the Stryker's front is causing bounces? It's at least rated for 14.5mm but I'm not sure of the armor penetration effect of those anyway.

Also both the BMP-2 and BMP-3 wouldn't be any better at killing Bradley etc with its guns, but it would at least have access to Konkurs or Kornet ATGM.

 

The sloped front is what makes it withstand 14 mm rounds. A 30 mm AP round would pass through with ease. The BTR and the stryker have a roughly equal level of protection and the 14mm version should be equal with the stryker. The 30mm should rip a stryker in pieces. A stryker on the other hand should have some issues with penetrating the front of the BTR beyond 200 meters.

 

The BMP-2/3 is a lot better protected than the MT-LB and is protected against ~30 mm rounds in the front, so it would be an equal match for the Bradley as neither one can rely on the cannon to kill the other but both have AT-missiles to do the job. The BMP have weaker side armor than the Bradley so it will be between the Warrior and the Bradley in the game.

 

edit: I personally prefer the BMP-2 as it would be more equal to the other IFV in the game with only the 30mm cannon and ATGM.

Edited by Pluto is a planet
adding stuff

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31 minutes ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

What about the BMP-3? What's the main upgrade from the BMP-2?

For the game the most significant difference would be that the BMP-3 have a 100 mm cannon along with the 30mm. the 100 mm is a low pressure cannon that would be efficient only against soft targets but it would still be a pretty heavy armament. The BMP-2 have only the 30 mm cannon.

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2 hours ago, Pluto is a planet said:

 

The sloped front is what makes it withstand 14 mm rounds. A 30 mm AP round would pass through with ease. The BTR and the stryker have a roughly equal level of protection and the 14mm version should be equal with the stryker. The 30mm should rip a stryker in pieces. A stryker on the other hand should have some issues with penetrating the front of the BTR beyond 200 meters.

Okay, so based on some quick and basic research, the 14,5mm and 30mm armor piercing rounds seem to actually have some similar armor piercing capabilities, though the 30mm probably also has a kintetic energy advantage over the 14.5mm. Also, BTR only seems to have about 10mm of armor at the front, and even with its angle it'll only protect from armor piercing .50 rounds from beyond 500 meters or so.

 

Quote

The BMP-2/3 is a lot better protected than the MT-LB and is protected against ~30 mm rounds in the front, so it would be an equal match for the Bradley as neither one can rely on the cannon to kill the other but both have AT-missiles to do the job. The BMP have weaker side armor than the Bradley so it will be between the Warrior and the Bradley in the game.

If it's rated for its own 30mm gun (I really doubt it's rated for anything more than .50 cal though) then that's kind of useless, since the armor piercing rounds of the M242 25mm cannon the Bradley has are about twice as effective as the 2A42 30mm gun.

 

It is possible I'm underestimating the 2A42's AP rounds because what I was looking at doesn't seem to have closer range penetration values. I'll do a little more digging.

 

If the Steel Beasts wiki is anything to go by, the 30mm is still about as effective as I initially assumed it was.

 

Quote

 

edit: I personally prefer the BMP-2 as it would be more equal to the other IFV in the game with only the 30mm cannon and ATGM.

BMP-2 is my personal choice for Russian IFV due to its ubiquity, though the BMP-3 would also be interesting because it's different (and the 100mm gun wouldn't really unbalance things because it's primarily and anti-infantry tool).

 

 

Edited by Kothra

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