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Gadaffi

Rally Points system make this game arcade ?

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As an old player of PROJECT REALITY and ARMA (more than 10 years), I m trying this game around 3 weeks now, every day. But although it has great graphic engine and good potential, I never get the feeling of realism, strategy and teamwork playing I have met in Project Reality or Arma. And I was thinking "why this ?" . In my opinion this game -especially in smaller maps-  tend to be, not a "squad" game, but rather a "deathmatch" arcade childish game, with no time to think, no time to cooperate, no time to do anything but run and shoot.  In bigger maps, things become a bit better but not perfect. As I played more and more, I realise that the problem of this chaotic endless shooting is the "rally point" system.  Squad leaders can change rally point position very often. Image now 8 squads from the one team, and 8 squads from the other team which change their rally positions every 1 or 2 min. What a mess. No tactical gaming, no strategy, no time to cooperate or even to teamwork well. I believe that the rally point system along with the revive system make this game more a shooting arcade fps, rather than a realistic tactical game, or (for older players) a "project reality 2" alternative. But if we want an arcade fps game there are hundreds of these outthere... What do you think guys (and developers) ?

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1 hour ago, Gadaffi said:

As an old player of PROJECT REALITY and ARMA (more than 10 years), I m trying this game around 3 weeks now, every day. But although it has great graphic engine and good potential, I never get the feeling of realism, strategy and teamwork playing I have met in Project Reality or Arma. And I was thinking "why this ?" . In my opinion this game -especially in smaller maps-  tend to be, not a "squad" game, but rather a "deathmatch" arcade childish game, with no time to think, no time to cooperate, no time to do anything but run and shoot.  In bigger maps, things become a bit better but not perfect. As I played more and more, I realise that the problem of this chaotic endless shooting is the "rally point" system.  Squad leaders can change rally point position very often. Image now 8 squads from the one team, and 8 squads from the other team which change their rally positions every 1 or 2 min. What a mess. No tactical gaming, no strategy, no time to cooperate or even to teamwork well. I believe that the rally point system along with the revive system make this game more a shooting arcade fps, rather than a realistic tactical game, or (for older players) a "project reality 2" alternative. But if we want an arcade fps game there are hundreds of these outthere... What do you think guys (and developers) ?

At 4k hours of playtime I've never once got a "deathmatch arcade childish" vibe from the game itself. That said, just the demographic of the genre is however naturally going to attract such players that define your experience in that manner.

 

Interestingly enough, I don't think it's the Rally Points at all that are coloring your experience however. Suffice it to say instead I would say your perception of this speedy gameplay centers more around the "Rush" dynamic which is a learned behavior left over from v9 and prior.

 

RAAS has alleviated this somewhat but this is why I'm really looking forward to the "Fog Of War" that Gatzby mentioned will be forthcoming at some point.

 

On the the other hand, maybe I'm wrong and you're correct.

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Whilst I dont think it ventures into the arcade style games that we all know and like to hate but secretly play.. I have some sympathy with the op but dont believe its anything to do with RPs.. nothing tactically will change if you have a fob or rp.. its just another place to spawn after all, if an SL wants to do his own thing with his squad then they will, doesnt matter where they spawn.

 

I played Arma but didnt play PR.. Arma was a very tactical game but as it grew and evolved it moved away from a more tactical side with the addition of players that were looking for a new shooter but not really playing tactically.. Now there are niche groups playing both that want to play tactically .  

 

As Zylfrax has mentioned on numerous occasions Squad  seemed to want to sit in the middle of tactical and arcade..with the ease by which it can be played it has attracted players that again want a sense of realism and tactics without the straight jacket constraints of military simulation... 

 

I do think at times it falls into a trap of TDM mode but imo more to do with the players rather than any game mechanics stopping tactical and team co-ordination.  With squads unwilling to defend, rushing straight at capture points or generally wasting vehicles it creates the chaos I see at times.  the mentality many times is going for the glory kills rather than the hard graft defensive co-ordination.  For me its the capture flag gamemode that is the real problem forcing this coming together of players on one specific location at a time.

 

It is borne out many times on the new larger maps, Im no tactical genius but watching streams of people leaving the base at the beginning going in all different directions, logis on their own, tanks separated, Strykers rushing across open terrain there is no sense of tactics at all, it is all basically rush mentality no matter whether its the first flag or the middle flag... its more of a racing game at the start than a tactical military move.

 

Most conversations at the start of the match are basically, whose back capping, whose sticking a fob down on flag x and whose rushing the enemy.... nothing to do with rally points...  for it to become more tactical it still needs more randomness on the flags or some form of frontline gamemode... and a limit to armoured vehicles plus taking away the radio build system and creating a supply crate and persistent emplacements rather than the janky dig radio all stuff disappears. 

Edited by embecmom

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9 hours ago, Gadaffi said:

As an old player of PROJECT REALITY and ARMA (more than 10 years), I m trying this game around 3 weeks now, every day. But although it has great graphic engine and good potential, I never get the feeling of realism, strategy and teamwork playing I have met in Project Reality or Arma. And I was thinking "why this ?" . In my opinion this game -especially in smaller maps-  tend to be, not a "squad" game, but rather a "deathmatch" arcade childish game, with no time to think, no time to cooperate, no time to do anything but run and shoot.  In bigger maps, things become a bit better but not perfect. As I played more and more, I realise that the problem of this chaotic endless shooting is the "rally point" system.  Squad leaders can change rally point position very often. Image now 8 squads from the one team, and 8 squads from the other team which change their rally positions every 1 or 2 min. What a mess. No tactical gaming, no strategy, no time to cooperate or even to teamwork well. I believe that the rally point system along with the revive system make this game more a shooting arcade fps, rather than a realistic tactical game, or (for older players) a "project reality 2" alternative. But if we want an arcade fps game there are hundreds of these outthere... What do you think guys (and developers) ?

I really understand you. 

 

I played PR for years and I´ve realized that is one of "the best games I will ever play". It will be difficult to experience that fantastic gaming experience and immersion in the future with a FPS game. Although I have hopes that Squad will get near that in the future.

 

I bought Squad when it was v8 or v9 (dont remember now) and after less than 2 hours I was asking for my moeny back on steam and launching PR!!!!!!!!

 

I came back at V10 and was suprised it had changed. It was becoming more like PR. but still not there. I asked for my money back but STEAM said "NO".

I kept playing PR.

 

Then V11 came out and I tried it. And I thought that it was a bit more like PR. And It cant be a coincidence. Devs are slowly vending the gameplay to ressemble PR. mhm…. Still….a long way to go.

 

And now V12 is here. This is the BEST ITERATION OF SQUAD EVER. It keeps moving towards PR. It´s not there yet, but it´s not as arcady as it was 2 years ago. It´s much better. Things make sense now. 

 

Now Rally points....well...they are experimenting with them. And I think this current wave spawning is not too bad. 

 

In the future with bigger maps and helis the game will be even better and even less arcady.

 

39 minutes ago, embecmom said:

Whilst I dont think it ventures into the arcade style games that we all know and like to hate but secretly play.. 

Lol this made me laugh. I don´t go nowhere near those games...but it was a funny revelation! :)

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Having about the same PR time, I share this feelings friend, although some do not put the rally in this guilty position, saying that some other factors are more influential in this problem.
The rally is rather one of the central aspects in all this, the spawn system is a central influencer in the flow of game and arcadish behavior, the rally itself removes a great layer of strategic depth by replacing with great prejudice, a good part of the applicability of the fobs, which in turn require teamwork, logistical support and protection to be effective while a rally can be used and moved with almost none of these aspects.

In this, everything, although I prefer for the non existence of it, would find a rally system in the molds of PR much more bearable and less harmful to a tactical game environment, Requiring a much more careful and tactical use.

 

 

Another important thing that should be changed is that the nametags were either removed or took a much longer time to appear, I remember in  PR when the 1.0 allowed 100 people per server, the engine could not support that all players had nametags, At first some were horrified for a moment hehe but with the passage of time the communication and the observation of the camouflage / equipment totally replaced the nametags.   

lthough this led to some occasional tks for beginners and some very rare for veterans, the benefits received in the form of strategic depth and environment conducive to the application of strategies were geometrically superior to any disadvantage.

Edited by blayas

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rally discussion has been done to death... as per usual the tool is being blamed rather than the players...  a FOB does not create teamwork, players do.   At the end of the day the FOB is a magic spawn area just like the rally, only for the whole team.  

 

Indeed as I have said before PS started with spawn trucks, an abomination of a system and no rallies... this is the same player base as Squad in effect and yet without rallies it failed to capture the imagination and created an absolute mess of any teamwork that may have existed.   It apparently has created some sort of rally system now.

 

Putting a fob down takes as much planning as a rally, because the players 80% of the time slap it down on a flag ... or near to a capture point ... there is no real strategy to it, because they are so easy to find and take out and needed to for any defense or attack near a flag... rallies provide that alternative attack point and an ability to keep the squad together.

 

Blaming rallies for the lack of teamwork is like blaming a pen for writing Mein Kampf.

 

 

 

 

Edited by embecmom

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I got around +2000h in squad and i have not found any "Arcadish style" in squad. Granted it is not as liberal in what you can do in the game as Arma which in compared to arma may, make one feel Squad is "Arcadeish" but if you compare to other titles like BF and COD it is less it is less "Arcadeish". I think it is Squads strength tho, while other titles may focus more on realism and others focus more on mainstream Squad is in between with the focus of Teamwork. OWI seam to add more features meant to stimulate/assist cooperation and teamwork where other games leaves it completely in the players hands and this may affect realism and freedom as they somewhat creates a funnel towards working together as a team. I played also Post Scriptum and in that game I do not see the same type of teamwork as I see in Squad and my analysis is that they focus too much on historical accuracy/realism instead of balance and playabillity. I find far more passionate squad leaders in Squad that enjoys squad leading because they have enough tool/features/aid to help them work with other SL and their own Squad members where in Post Scriptum the SLs are rare and the vast majority do not lead with the passion of a squad SL because it requires too much effort.

Personally I can also tell a difference from server to server in squad, usually depending on what timezone i'm playing in, the quality of teamwork may be significantly differ from one TZ to another and perhaps if you get a bad experience maybe you should try different servers at different time of day and perhaps find a clan that embraces teamwork? Ither way give the game more time is my suggestion

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1 hour ago, embecmom said:

rally discussion has been done to death... as per usual the tool is being blamed rather than the players...  a FOB does not create teamwork, players do.   At the end of the day the FOB is a magic spawn area just like the rally, only for the whole team.  

 

The mechanics of a game do not create anything by themselves, they create an environment conducive to something, the tendency is that players over time always take the most efficient route, if this more efficient way is different from tactical / strategic game / teamwork / slow pacing This does not detract from the possibility of the players who like it to use it, however it takes away the effectiveness of it! .... which is the same with the difference of just keeping the sordid argument that the mechanics are well because they do not deprive them of this.

 

And I really do not think fobs and rallies are comparable in the way you said, a fob requires supplies, a stable logistics line to keep up with, is much more detectable, requires construction, and in some cases protection, in whatever form they take (defensive / offensive / hidden) do not fail to maintain their requirements.

For all this my suggestion adopts a model based on the rally of the PR,

- it limits the efficiency of the rally insofar as it can change the ´´environment conducive to something`` with much less effort than a fob.
- establishes a punishment for sloppy use of the tool
-Scaling tool limitations to map size
- establishes a tool that is different from a fob, but taking into account the logistical system built around the game.

Edited by blayas

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The AAS flag capturing & defending mechanic naturally rewards players who take advantage of concealment and cover plus non-engagement as opposed to the bayonet charge tactic.

 

Finding other players who will actually listen to you and prone crawl 100 meters through a wheat field to the very edge of a flag to capture it or just hide out to protect a crucial flag while the next is being captured is about as rare as finding hens teeth however.

 

Honestly in v12 if you think about it the Logistics truck has become the most powerful vehicle in the game if used properly with the prone meta.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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3 hours ago, blayas said:

 

 

And I really do not think fobs and rallies are comparable in the way you said, a fob requires supplies, a stable logistics line to keep up with, is much more detectable, requires construction, and in some cases protection, in whatever form they take (defensive / offensive / hidden) do not fail to maintain their requirements.

For all this my suggestion adopts a model based on the rally of the PR,

- it limits the efficiency of the rally insofar as it can change the ´´environment conducive to something`` with much less effort than a fob.
- establishes a punishment for sloppy use of the tool
-Scaling tool limitations to map size
- establishes a tool that is different from a fob, but taking into account the logistical system built around the game.

 

Looks like the players that came from Project Reality understand better what I m saying. And I really agree with @Blayas. FOB is much different than rally point. FOBs are strategic points of spawn, Rally points are just  spawn points that may change position every 60 sec creating a complete mess. The 1st minute the enemy is coming from the North, 60 sec later the same enemy is coming from West, and just 2 min later it comes from the South. All it matters is how fast you are running and how accurate shooting, nothing else.

 

I totally agree with suggestion made by @Blayas. Project Reality has a very good model in rally points. Much better and balanced in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Gadaffi said:

Looks like the players that came from Project Reality understand better what I m saying. And I really agree with @Blayas. FOB is much different than rally point. FOBs are strategic points of spawn, Rally points are just  spawn points that may change position every 60 sec creating a complete mess. The 1st minute the enemy is coming from the North, 60 sec later the same enemy is coming from West, and just 2 min later it comes from the South. All it matters is how fast you are running and how accurate shooting, nothing else.

Ouch!

 

I can´t agree with you there anymore.

 

Leaving the fact that PR may or may not have better rally system aside for a minute, you cannot deny that what you just said requires A LOT of skill.

 

First of all, lets asume that your experience was from actually figthing 1 and only 1 squad. In that case, If they were so coordinated as to change the location of the rally point 3 times in 3 minutes and do so around the position of your own squad....well...THAT IS SKILL. 

 

In the situation above, not only did the SL had the situational awareness to know exactly where your squad was at all times to surrpound you, but his squad also keps a man with him all the time while I asume fighting with your squad. And all that keeping enough firepower to prevent you from doing the same thing.

 

We can say that we don´t like that. But 2 things have to be said:

 

1- Such a level of skill and coordination is not too common.

 

2- "Running and shooting" is not all that matters in all that was happening around you in that firefight.

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You don't even have to move the Rally necessarily, you just have to place it on the flank and it has the same effect. It's tactically strong because it provides respawns from a direction that the enemy can't easily deal with. FOBs flanking other FOBs can have the same effect. I think it's unfair to call any of this tactical though. It's too macro-level, it's about respawns. Whoever has the better respawn points, (not just having more FOBs, but building them in better locations so they can out-pressure the enemy's respawns) will typically win.

 

To me the biggest problem is that FOBs and rallies create these pressure cookers around capture points, for some really endless firefights. This is a major pacing issue, because the game just kind of stops for 20 minutes in firefight hell. It's also bad for strategy - when both teams are locked in fighting on a cap, there isn't much room to breathe. Building new FOBs, going on squad adventures, or anything else that lets off the pressure can swing the momentum against you. Even if you are at a disadvantageous position it makes sense to keep the pressure up in case the enemy screws up by doing something tricky like build a new deep FOB that will split their spawn points and weaken them.

 

I hate the Rally changes in v12, they're not good for tactics. Managing squad respawn points is not tactical to me - but getting your squad together is the first step for all squad tactics. So keeping the former but nerfing the latter feels like a backwards change to me.

 

Wider issue is the respawns on capture points. Lowering the pressure on these points to slow things down a bit and make the fights more decisive would be ideal. Respawns are the source of the problem for sure, but I don't really know what could be done. The FOB 30m overrun sounds good, but it has the unfortunate side effect of raising pressure in some situations. 30m is not very far, and FOBs on cap are still the strongest and most efficient spawn point. FOBs just need more constant respawns than before to keep them alive, so the 30m overrun don't necessarily slow down anything. IDK maybe it just needs bigger harder nerfs.

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12 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

 

First of all, lets asume that your experience was from actually figthing 1 and only 1 squad. In that case, If they were so coordinated as to change the location of the rally point 3 times in 3 minutes and do so around the position of your own squad....well...THAT IS SKILL. 

 

In the situation above, not only did the SL had the situational awareness to know exactly where your squad was at all times to surrpound you, but his squad also keps a man with him all the time while I asume fighting with your squad. And all that keeping enough firepower to prevent you from doing the same thing.

 

We can say that we don´t like that. But 2 things have to be said:

 

1- Such a level of skill and coordination is not too common.

 

2- "Running and shooting" is not all that matters in all that was happening around you in that firefight.

 

It is a kind of skill BUT it's not realism.  You just take a player with you and moving outside of the battle zone. You just have to make circles around the target city in a safe distant and drop rally points. Not so difficult. Imagine all SLs to do the same. Spawn points of all squads to change every 1 or 2 min  sec. What a realistic game eh ? You will never know where the enemy is coming from.

 

I m not saying rally points is bad. No. What I m trying to say is that the ability to drop Rally Points very often create a not realistic environment especially in smaller maps.  As I said before  Imagine you have to defend a town. The enemy detected in North.. you are preparing you defences. Suddenly in 60 sec the enemy teletransported south, end 2 min later in west. That makes a game an endless firefighting and everyone is just running and shooting in every direction. I m sure you have seen this in small maps. By saying that I want to clarify again that I m not against rally points. This is a game. But the current rally point system I think make the game a bit "run and shoot" . I believe that Rally point and spawn system of Project Reality is more mature in my opinion. This is my suggestion to devs.. To move toward a PR spawn system model.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Gadaffi said:

 

It is a kind of skill BUT it's not realism.  You just take a player with you and moving outside of the battle zone. You just have to make circles around the target city in a safe distant and drop rally points. Not so difficult. Imagine all SLs to do the same. Spawn points of all squads to change every 1 or 2 min  sec. What a realistic game eh ? You will never know where the enemy is coming from.

 

I m not saying rally points is bad. No. What I m trying to say is that the ability to drop Rally Points very often create a not realistic environment especially in smaller maps.  As I said before  Imagine you have to defend a town. The enemy detected in North.. you are preparing you defences. Suddenly in 60 sec the enemy teletransported south, end 2 min later in west. That makes a game an endless firefighting and everyone is just running and shooting in every direction. I m sure you have seen this in small maps. By saying that I want to clarify again that I m not against rally points. This is a game. But the current rally point system I think make the game a bit "run and shoot" . I believe that Rally point and spawn system of Project Reality is more mature in my opinion. This is my suggestion to devs.. To move toward a PR spawn system model.

Remember that this is the first attempt devs had at wave spawn infinite rally system. So things can be tweeked to achieve a desired balance.

 

And I do agree with you that it´s far from perfect. Although with all the other new changes, considering all of them together, it´s much better than we had before.

 

Still I mantain my position that what you are describing is a situation that requieres quiet  a lot of skill and coordination to actually work well. I seriously doubt that level of coordination with the desired result is common in a public server.

An enemy squad that was detected North and is 60 seconds later attacking from South and 60 seconds later is West is HIGHLY coordinated. I have my doubts about your experience fighting just a single Squad. Specially if they had enough Manpower to keep you on your toes. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Gadaffi said:

 

 

 

 

Looks like the players that came from Project Reality understand better what I m saying. And I really agree with @Blayas. FOB is much different than rally point. FOBs are strategic points of spawn, Rally points are just  spawn points that may change position every 60 sec creating a complete mess. The 1st minute the enemy is coming from the North, 60 sec later the same enemy is coming from West, and just 2 min later it comes from the South. All it matters is how fast you are running and how accurate shooting, nothing else.

 

I totally agree with suggestion made by @Blayas. Project Reality has a very good model in rally points. Much better and balanced in my opinion.

Fob is different in that it needs built, but you could just build a hab and offer no supplies to it for the whole game it is thus a glorified rally... whats the difference?  but you are talking about teamwork.. and teamwork is not created by a fob nor a rally it is created by players... who is the rally creating a mess for?  the team attacking or the team defending? 

 

In fact the very reason you suggest a FOB is better is imo the reason they are so weak, you find players heading directly from a to b.. fob to flag.. easy to track easy to find and easily countered by defense, there is no teamwork in play.  You also end up with multiple players spawning individually on fobs.. running off, no one wants to really wait to get back into the action, the rally with its phased spawn brings the squad back together.

 

Lastly whats stopping anyone dropping multiple fobs around the map and using them as spawn points?  Coming in from different directions?  

 

Arguing about realism when a fob is a magic spawn poiint... more realism would be one life no respawns.. transport from trucks from base etc... 

 

 

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17 hours ago, blayas said:

The mechanics of a game do not create anything by themselves, they create an environment conducive to something, the tendency is that players over time always take the most efficient route, if this more efficient way is different from tactical / strategic game / teamwork / slow pacing This does not detract from the possibility of the players who like it to use it, however it takes away the effectiveness of it! .... which is the same with the difference of just keeping the sordid argument that the mechanics are well because they do not deprive them of this.

 

 

Why is a more efficient route any less tactical or creates less teamwork?   What teamwork are you looking for that cannot already be done within the game?

 

I hear PR people all the time talking about rallies being the cause of no teamwork, but if there are so many pr people in the game then why are you not working together?    

 

Im at a loss to see what additional teamwork would be gained that cannot already be created within the game now, other than this desire to slow the game down to a crawl which would probably mean you end up with less players and a niche game with just oh wait.. pr people in it... 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, embecmom said:

Fob is different in that it needs built, but you could just build a hab and offer no supplies to it for the whole game it is thus a glorified rally... whats the difference?

We'll burn that bridge when we come to it >:D

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5 minutes ago, embecmom said:

Why is a more efficient route any less tactical or creates less teamwork?   What teamwork are you looking for that cannot already be done within the game?

 

I hear PR people all the time talking about rallies being the cause of no teamwork, but if there are so many pr people in the game then why are you not working together?    

 

Im at a loss to see what additional teamwork would be gained that cannot already be created within the game now, other than this desire to slow the game down to a crawl which would probably mean you end up with less players and a niche game with just oh wait.. pr people in it… 

I´m one of the PR people and I have to agree with you in some extent.

 

V12 has taken the game much closer to PR tan I had expected. I do think the game needs to slow down a bit more but rallies and fobs may not be the main way to do it. In my opinion NAME TAGS right now are THE BIGGEST ARCADE FACTOR IN THIS GAME. 

*Delaying them

*Getting rid of them at some distance 

*No name Tags through walls/vehicles, etc.

 

Best argument against this right now is the optimization. RIght now the game may not look "Sharp" enough to allow people to identify friend from foe based on the uniform. Resourcing to opening the map every 30 secs would be the only way to go to IFF. 

 

On the other hand I would make respawn timer a bit more punishing. Say at least 1.30 OR adding a respawn timer to your death + the wave spawn timer.

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You have to remember, Squad isn't aiming to be the next big simulation game - But a balance between realism & arcade elements. Sometimes fun/balance is chosen over realism, for gameplay purposes.

Funnily enough, the new revive system actually promotes realism - As a large portion of soldiers undergo CLS(Or nations equivalent) training, that teaches the basics of ALS and pre hospital treatment, incase of mass casualties or the medic is unable to make it to the casualty location. 

It's not too hard to wipe an enemy rally, since the wipe radius changed to 30m in v12.  You just have to be proactive and seek enemy rally points. Notice enemy keep coming from the East, send 1 or 2 guys to scout it out, wipe it.

It's hard to balance, as you're trying to not make the game spawn screen/ wait time simulator, and you're also trying to not make the game instant action simulator. 

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19 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

I´m one of the PR people and I have to agree with you in some extent.

 

V12 has taken the game much closer to PR tan I had expected. I do think the game needs to slow down a bit more but rallies and fobs may not be the main way to do it. In my opinion NAME TAGS right now are THE BIGGEST ARCADE FACTOR IN THIS GAME. 

*Delaying them

*Getting rid of them at some distance 

*No name Tags through walls/vehicles, etc.

 

Best argument against this right now is the optimization. RIght now the game may not look "Sharp" enough to allow people to identify friend from foe based on the uniform. Resourcing to opening the map every 30 secs would be the only way to go to IFF. 

 

On the other hand I would make respawn timer a bit more punishing. Say at least 1.30 OR adding a respawn timer to your death + the wave spawn timer.

tbh for my eyesight and crappy pc I never want to get rid of the tags... but I think v12 has encouraged more teamwork than I have ever seen in the game...

 

a lot more logi runs are being done without even volunteering people, mortars being used as cover with smoke, vehicles whilst still not being used enough for quick transport I see more understanding in using the range vs getting into close contact...   I think the game has slowed to a very nice pace although the rush is still a thing that Id like to see toned down more... 

 

I think people are looking for more strategic planning and execution and blame rallies for something that really cant be sorted unless the gamemodes cahnge... I just dont think the maps with the flag captures is conducive to a strategic game although recently have had some really great defensive matches.   It promotes a rush from one flag to the next, its all about momentum...  Invasion comes closer but again its about rushing ... dont ask me what that is ... perhaps more objective base maps... where a whole town has to be cleared or pushing insurgents out a valley ... frontline mode is still I think what will be the making of squad, finding and holding strategic points on the map vs being forced into a TDM on a flag.

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6 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

In my opinion NAME TAGS right now are THE BIGGEST ARCADE FACTOR IN THIS GAME.

Agreed. I despise them. That said, I'm hoping you do know there are settings now that can actually remove the name tags and minimize the role icon greatly to the point where at a reasonably close distance it completely removes them right?

 

Settings, UI, Name Tag Opacity, Name Tag Scale, Show Name Tag Text & Show Name Tag Kit

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Agreed. I despise them. That said, I'm hoping you do know there are settings now that can actually remove the name tags and minimize the role icon greatly to the point where at a reasonably close distance it completely removes them right?

 

Settings, UI, Name Tag Opacity, Name Tag Scale, Show Name Tag Text & Show Name Tag Kit

Yes. I know. But turning them off would only slow MY gameplay, not GAMEPLAY in general. I would have to deal with identifying enemy from friend while the rest would just know exaclty who I am. Or in case of enemy, they would shoot at anything that moves that doesn´t have a name tag and shoot me 7 times while I try to identify if it´s friend or foe!

Edited by Nightingale87

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5 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

Yes. I know. But turning them off would only slow MY gameplay, not GAMEPLAY in general. I would have to deal with identifying enemy from friend while the rest would just know exaclty who I am. Or in case of enemy, they would shoot at anything that moves that doesn´t have a name tag and shoot me 7 times while I try to identify if it´s friend or foe!

What's your monitor size and resolution because I've personally got no IFF problems with the tags off etc? There is so much cover and concealment in Squad if you move slow, crouch and prone a lot plus watch your back it seems almost criminal how easy it is to stay alive...

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10 hours ago, Dubs said:

You have to remember, Squad isn't aiming to be the next big simulation game - But a balance between realism & arcade elements. Sometimes fun/balance is chosen over realism, for gameplay purposes.

Funnily enough, the new revive system actually promotes realism - As a large portion of soldiers undergo CLS(Or nations equivalent) training, that teaches the basics of ALS and pre hospital treatment, incase of mass casualties or the medic is unable to make it to the casualty location. 

It's not too hard to wipe an enemy rally, since the wipe radius changed to 30m in v12.  You just have to be proactive and seek enemy rally points. Notice enemy keep coming from the East, send 1 or 2 guys to scout it out, wipe it.

It's hard to balance, as you're trying to not make the game spawn screen/ wait time simulator, and you're also trying to not make the game instant action simulator. 

Hmm that is an interesting point. Squad game started (in its first step) as a Project Reality 2 project (before the team split). I agree with you that Squad isn't aim to be the next big simulation game, but a balance between realism and arcade (more close to realism however). This is what PROJECT REALITY (PR) managed to do with great success. What I personally would like to see is a more enhanced, more advanced successor of PR. What make PR great is not ofcourse its graphics but the gameplay. However,  even if PR is a great game, cannot hide its age. What it misses from the game arena is a modern game like this. Remember, there are so many free arcade or close to arcade FPS out there with great graphics and some of the completely free. But there IS NOTHING like Project Reality. So I agree with you about balance, but this balance has to turn in the side of realism, not to the arcade. We have much of arcade but only PR (and maybe arma) in the other side. If Squad became more arcade It will loose the bet ... just google "best free fps" and you will see how many arcade games are out there. So developers have to decide about the character of the game. Balance is good, but since there is no perfect balance, I think Squad have to be more realistic than arcade. This is how it was born after all. :)

Edited by Gadaffi
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one of the things that is a server side setting in Rising Storm vietnam is to set tags only visible within 50m or less... might be an option to add specifically to the servers rather than having them turned off completely.

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