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ductape

Solving the v12 Logistics Nightmare

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With the changes in V12 -- increased map sizes, vehicle torque, FOB locking, persistent ammo, etc -- logistics has become a nightmare, ruining the fun and pacing of the game. It's particularly bad on public servers when people don't want to spend 10 minutes making a logi run up a steep hill, when they'll just get blown up and waste the effort. However, while most players don't like driving a logi all match, most don't mind a quick trip for supplies every once and a while. 

 

Solution: Player-built supply FOB's.

 

The core of Squad is player interaction, so I think it's important to make sure the focus remains on teamwork, communication, and player driven actions. It still needs to be a fun game to play in both public and organized matches, and players aren't going to stick around to grow the community if they aren't spending most of the play time talking with squadies and shooting stuff. The idea is to make logi runs player-driven, short and sweet, but still vulnerable to ambush and supply chain scarcity.

 

Supply dumps can be built at FOBs, which slowly generate supplies. They must be at least 1000m away from active flags, 600m away from mortars, and 1000m away from other supply depots. These numbers should be examined but I think they're a good starting point.

 

This shortens supply runs on large maps and maps with crappy geography/steep hills, but still requires teamwork and planning to execute. This will encourage supply fobs to be built in areas where it makes sense: major cross roads, easy access, defensible, etc. However, mortars can't be spammed with free ammo from the supply dump, it still takes a logistics network to supply them, and supply dumps are placed far enough apart to prevent easy exploitation.

 

This can also be used to keep old FOBs behind the front line relevant as the team advances. Logis get dragged from one base to the next and run between the current FOB and the previous FOB.

 

Need supplies? Spawn at the previous FOB and pick up the abandoned logi there. Then fill it up at the supply depot and drive it forward. Getting pushed back? Dig up the Supply depot and move it back. Then build mortars to replace the supply depot and shell the enemy advance. Advancing quickly? Dig up the mortars and place a supply depot, then build a new forward FOB.

 

Points generate slowly so you still have strained supply lines while teams are advancing quickly, and if the defending team is holding out against heavy assault, close supply points may run low and require longer supply runs to more distant points. Squads can also go behind enemy lines to make logi runs more treacherous/longer as trucks need to drive further back to avoid ambushes.

 

Also, SLs will have to try and hide supply dumps once helicopters are added so that they don't get nuked from orbit

 

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10 hours ago, ductape said:

With the changes in V12 -- increased map sizes, vehicle torque, FOB locking, persistent ammo, etc -- logistics has become a nightmare, ruining the fun and pacing of the game. It's particularly bad on public servers when people don't want to spend 10 minutes making a logi run up a steep hill, when they'll just get blown up and waste the effort. However, while most players don't like driving a logi all match, most don't mind a quick trip for supplies every once and a while.

I´m sorry but I cant relate to this.

 

I don´t think there´s a "V12 logistic nightmare". I do think that some teams sometimes are so bad at handling logistics that the round becomes  a nightmare for them and they get their asses kicked. 

 

10 minutes logi run seems a bit exaggerated. It depends on the map and the road you take. Even if it´s 10 minutes...it´s not that much and it´s part of the game. I sometimes run a Logistics squads and I exclusively run logis. I feel like a REALLY useful part of the team. Having fobs well supplied and with people spawning and re arming and Rolling over the enemy is sometimes only posible because somebody is running logistics.

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its lack of teamwork not lack of supplies...  logis in this game run without escorts..so easy targets...whilst armour is off doing its own thing ... we already had radios that generated supply points it was exploited ...

 

supply crates and no radio would be better move.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, embecmom said:

its lack of teamwork not lack of supplies...  logis in this game run without escorts..so easy targets...whilst armour is off doing its own thing ... we already had radios that generated supply points it was exploited ...

 

supply crates and no radio would be better move.

 

 

I do agree here with my buddy above.

If your armour is doing what he supposed to do you would not need to worry about the trucks getting destroyed.

And i personally do not mind doing logistics for my squad my team i did it in real army i do it here as i know how crucial it can be.

 

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12 minutes ago, Psyko said:

The trucks could be a bit faster uphill. 

Yeah that, or fix the roads to be not twice as steep as they would be irl.

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Can you not use regular FOB's as supply FOBs? Just have one truck bring supplies to a FOB closer to the front and have other trucks pick up supply from there? You can also pull all the extra (leave some ammo) supplies from your backup FOBs and move them to the ones closer to the front.

 

Also I don't think I have ever really been in a game with at least one person doing logistics in which fobs are starved for supplies.

 

When Squad leading I always try to keep a truck close by and regularly send one of my guys to do logi runs if necessary. Key here is to keep the truck in working condition and close by, so when you need to send someone for a run they don't have to walk too far to get to the truck.

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Just jumping in to let you folks know we're reading along and appreciate the feedback. Keep it coming. =)

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On 26/11/2018 at 2:13 AM, Laki said:

Can you not use regular FOB's as supply FOBs? Just have one truck bring supplies to a FOB closer to the front and have other trucks pick up supply from there? You can also pull all the extra (leave some ammo) supplies from your backup FOBs and move them to the ones closer to the front.

 

Also I don't think I have ever really been in a game with at least one person doing logistics in which fobs are starved for supplies.

 

When Squad leading I always try to keep a truck close by and regularly send one of my guys to do logi runs if necessary. Key here is to keep the truck in working condition and close by, so when you need to send someone for a run they don't have to walk too far to get to the truck.

yes people seem to think radios are just for building fobs and spawn points... but im not sure why it needs a radio to drop the supplies at an ammo dump tbh... perhaps its just used as the marker for the range to the next radio ... this all leads back to another thread about decoupling certain things from the radio.. i.e emplacements and supplies ..vs radio with a hab... 

 

I get more people doing logi runs these days on the big maps because ammo is just vital now and if no one does it you lose the flag.

 

 

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On 22/11/2018 at 10:04 PM, Guan_Yu007 said:

Yeah that, or fix the roads to be not twice as steep as they would be irl.

i agree also, there is something fishy about the steepness of some of the roads, the inclines are such that i doubt any road paving vehicle could make it up hill much less a deuce. (mestia outside russian main base.....Kohat toi outside russian main)

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I don't think this game needs any more additions to an already complicated resupply and spawning system.

Reconfigure maps to reduce the endless hill climbing and provide more straightforward road layouts (looking at you Kamdesh), and then make logis faster and more capable of going up inclines.

Don't listen to the sadomasochists here who claim to love doing logi runs at the moment. They won't be happy until we have to start every game with a 90 minute drive out of main base.

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I think the logistic system is great as it is right now. It adds another level to the game besides "goto A, kill all enemies"

Now its possible to overextend the attack and run out of supplies. Its an great simulation of how logistics is a vital part of any battlefield, and simulates the vital need to fuel, ammunition, food etc.

 

Yesterday on Yeho, I drove logi for an hour or so. The enemy team had a scout car roving around taking about several attempts at getting supply to the frontline, and the teams assault was halted due to low ammo.

 

The team then coordinated that a tank cover a logi returning from the battlefield, and another 2 logis and a bradley joined the convoy out of main.

Rolling down the road in the middle of the map, 1 logi had gotten a bit further ahead than the rest(200-300 meters) and suddenly the enemy scout car turned unto the main road behind the logi. 

 Seconds later the rest of the convoy passed the wreck of the scout car, the tank  took out from the back of the convoy.

9000 pts of supply was brought to the frontline and the team then advanced again, bringing the team to victory shortly after.

 

Dont listen to the Battlefield franchise fanboys here, who claim the logistic system is broken at the moment. They wont be happy until the game is just another copy of their beloved battlefield series.

anti_brdm_convoy.jpg?width=1608&height=9

 

I will although agree that the traction of the trucks needs tweaking.

 

Edited by Jevski

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On 11/30/2018 at 2:12 PM, Jevski said:

 

Dont listen to the Battlefield franchise fanboys here, who claim the logistic system is broken at the moment. They wont be happy until the game is just another copy of their beloved battlefield series.

anti_brdm_convoy.jpg?width=1608&height=9

 

I will although agree that the traction of the trucks needs tweaking.

 

I don't understand the problem - I want the trucks you love driving to be buffed. More speed, more acceleration and better traction (like in Project Reality by the way, not BF). Then if maps are designed to be more forgiving you might not need an entire armored column just to survive two rambos in a scout car that were apparently crippling your entire team.

I want what's best for you Truck Simulator fans so you can deliver more juicy ammo and supplies to us Battlefield fans.

 

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This suggestion is much required. In short: fobs needs to slowly generate own supplies. Rest are details

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No way, that would make cutting off supplylines nearly useless. Afaik it's been tried and people didn't like it.

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On 11/22/2018 at 7:46 AM, ductape said:

With the changes in V12 -- increased map sizes, vehicle torque, FOB locking, persistent ammo, etc -- logistics has become a nightmare, ruining the fun and pacing of the game. It's particularly bad on public servers when people don't want to spend 10 minutes making a logi run up a steep hill, when they'll just get blown up and waste the effort. However, while most players don't like driving a logi all match, most don't mind a quick trip for supplies every once and a while. 



 

Solution: Player-built supply FOB's.

 

The core of Squad is player interaction, so I think it's important to make sure the focus remains on teamwork, communication, and player driven actions. It still needs to be a fun game to play in both public and organized matches, and players aren't going to stick around to grow the community if they aren't spending most of the play time talking with squadies and shooting stuff. The idea is to make logi runs player-driven, short and sweet, but still vulnerable to ambush and supply chain scarcity.

 

Supply dumps can be built at FOBs, which slowly generate supplies. They must be at least 1000m away from active flags, 600m away from mortars, and 1000m away from other supply depots. These numbers should be examined but I think they're a good starting point.

 

This shortens supply runs on large maps and maps with crappy geography/steep hills, but still requires teamwork and planning to execute. This will encourage supply fobs to be built in areas where it makes sense: major cross roads, easy access, defensible, etc. However, mortars can't be spammed with free ammo from the supply dump, it still takes a logistics network to supply them, and supply dumps are placed far enough apart to prevent easy exploitation.

 

This can also be used to keep old FOBs behind the front line relevant as the team advances. Logis get dragged from one base to the next and run between the current FOB and the previous FOB.

 

Need supplies? Spawn at the previous FOB and pick up the abandoned logi there. Then fill it up at the supply depot and drive it forward. Getting pushed back? Dig up the Supply depot and move it back. Then build mortars to replace the supply depot and shell the enemy advance. Advancing quickly? Dig up the mortars and place a supply depot, then build a new forward FOB.

 

Points generate slowly so you still have strained supply lines while teams are advancing quickly, and if the defending team is holding out against heavy assault, close supply points may run low and require longer supply runs to more distant points. Squads can also go behind enemy lines to make logi runs more treacherous/longer as trucks need to drive further back to avoid ambushes.

 

Also, SLs will have to try and hide supply dumps once helicopters are added so that they don't get nuked from orbit

 

It's definitely a problem with expanding map sizes and driving painfully long distances and how the dev's implemented a punish instead of reward system for not handling logistics. However, I am a firm believer that shit should not appear out of thin air. Supply should not manifest without being moved from one physical place to another.

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5 hours ago, paragonid said:

This suggestion is much required. In short: fobs needs to slowly generate own supplies. Rest are details

Can´t agree....that sounds like a different kind of game.

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Long painfull drives however will be less to no problem at all with the advent of helicopter being able to zip around the battlefield dropping you supplies in quantity.

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Lol ... FOBs need slow generation of points. That reminds me first versions of FOB in Squad where Supply wasnt a thing. We finally have logistic system in game after years of development and people call for autogenerators ? funny.

Squad is teamwork game. Where Logi is part of gameplay. If from 40 people there is 0 who is able run logi. Team MUST suffer, because they want just CoD or CS. They dont have to play Squad. Burn in pain you silly team. No mercy.

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Players built supply FOBs(disincentivising prople from doing logi runs more)  NO. -1

 

Improve trucks to handle driving steep hills ( considerably improving driving time and experience) YES +1

 

Logi helicopter ( to incentivize logi runs and logi emergency response) YES. +1

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On 11/30/2018 at 6:12 AM, Jevski said:

I think the logistic system is great as it is right now. It adds another level to the game besides "goto A, kill all enemies"

Now its possible to overextend the attack and run out of supplies. Its an great simulation of how logistics is a vital part of any battlefield, and simulates the vital need to fuel, ammunition, food etc.

 

Yesterday on Yeho, I drove logi for an hour or so. The enemy team had a scout car roving around taking about several attempts at getting supply to the frontline, and the teams assault was halted due to low ammo.

 

The team then coordinated that a tank cover a logi returning from the battlefield, and another 2 logis and a bradley joined the convoy out of main.

Rolling down the road in the middle of the map, 1 logi had gotten a bit further ahead than the rest(200-300 meters) and suddenly the enemy scout car turned unto the main road behind the logi. 

 Seconds later the rest of the convoy passed the wreck of the scout car, the tank  took out from the back of the convoy.

9000 pts of supply was brought to the frontline and the team then advanced again, bringing the team to victory shortly after.

 

Dont listen to the Battlefield franchise fanboys here, who claim the logistic system is broken at the moment. They wont be happy until the game is just another copy of their beloved battlefield series.

anti_brdm_convoy.jpg?width=1608&height=9

 

I will although agree that the traction of the trucks needs tweaking.

 

Oh Jeez, “battlefield fanboys”? Really? How so

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On 4/8/2019 at 2:30 AM, elerik said:

Lol ... FOBs need slow generation of points. That reminds me first versions of FOB in Squad where Supply wasnt a thing. We finally have logistic system in game after years of development and people call for autogenerators ? funny.

Squad is teamwork game. Where Logi is part of gameplay. If from 40 people there is 0 who is able run logi. Team MUST suffer, because they want just CoD or CS. They dont have to play Squad. Burn in pain you silly team. No mercy.

How is squad ever going to be like CoD or CS? The gunplay is nowhere near good enough to be the main focus of the game

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On ‎30‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:12 PM, Jevski said:

Dont listen to the Battlefield franchise fanboys here, who claim the logistic system is broken at the moment. They wont be happy until the game is just another copy of their beloved battlefield series.

+1

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