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FoxtrotOscar

Iranian Army's Ground Forces (Faction Idea)

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Hey, I made a thread a few weeks ago about this too! Great minds think alike my good man.

 

Just some input on your suggestions:

 

1. Rifleman: Both the Artesh and IRGC use G3s and AKs (AKM and Type 56) Its kind of inconsistent and varies between region to region. Most conscripts get G3 while in some cases officers get AKs. In some regions, its the other way around. (To be frank, the AK is just superior to the G3 as a service rifle. Iranians found this out back in the war with Iraq.) The IRGC is almost entirely AK-wielding.

 

(Oh btw, the picture you have there is of an artillery unit. Most probably have kevlar copies of PASGT or something. Not that it matters, M1 pot gives it all an old-school cool vibe.)

 

2. Saeghe can refer to many different weapon systems of Iranian origin. Specifically, in this case I think you misunderstand. The only HAT-candidate with the name Saeghe is an Iranian copy of the M47 Dragon. You posted a pic of MANPAD called Saeghe. There is also no RPG equivalent called Saeghe. There are however RPG warhead variants called Saeghe, but those are 40mm anti-infantry.

 

RPG-29 or Iranian RPG-7 copy w/ tandem projectile would be a better option IMO.

 

3. RPK is not common with the Army but rather with Basijis (IRGC militia). I have never seen RPKs in Iranian service but since there is no known SAW for the Iranians I guess it would be the best guess.

 

4. The T-72Z Safir wouldn't be a good choice. The T-72S is Iran's main battle tank, it is produced under license in Iran and the military has plenty of access to spare parts as well as the ability to manufacture their own. Russia set up the facilities necessary for this back when the deal was signed in the 90s. (This is the origin of the Zulfiqar project. Basically, Iran fitted a Patton with a T-72 gun, new  engine, new chassis, new turret and T-72S FCS. This was only possible because Iran had the ability to manufacture T-72S on their own.)

 

5. Why provide riflemen with optic-less SVDs and give the actual marksman class an bolt-action rifle? That would make the class a sniper and not a marksman. SVD WITH optic is produced under license in Iran and is standard issue for designated marksmen.

 

6. I don't see the necessity of switching transport trucks and what not while fighting INS/Mil or conventional forces. It seems silly, given that the Neynava trucks seem to asexually reproduce in Iran. (So many of those things)

 

Other than those gripes, I think your thread was wonderful! Pretty informative if anyone is looking to make a mod!

Edited by Brightnight

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The Russians have T80s, T90s and Armatas too but they got the T-72B3. Going by the same rule which I interpret as "the most common" I chose Safir-74 for Iranians instead of others mainly due to them being way more common. It is true that Iranians can produce T72s (although in very very limited numbers) but you have to take in to account the costs of production and maintenance and their logistical costs when used, non of which the army can afford considering Iran's current economic crises so the most realistic option used in case of a conflict would be Safir-74 and more expensive tanks like T-72S' would only be used in more special operations and with much limited scopes. 

There are three times as many T-72S as there are T-72Z Safirs in service. the Safir was a local attempt at upgrading the small amounts of T-55/59/62 bought from China and captured from Iraq throughout the Iran-Iraq War. There was never many in service compared to T-72S. So, technically the T-72S is more common by far. (I haven't seen Safirs in service for years. Most have been withdrawn. Only 10 still in service. Besides, FCS and other electronics/traits cannot be represented in-game owing to lack of information. T-72S would be the only realistic option)

 

Interestingly, and this is just a sidenote, the current Iranian Karrar MBT looks like it has been in the works for a while. The welded turret that it features looks awfully similar to a Ukrainian design given to the Iranians which they applied to their T-72 fleet. (The T-72s with such welded turrets being labeled "T-72 Khorramshahr". Only a handful were ever upgraded, way back in the late 90s)

 

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1) Since the in-game faction should be representing the bulk of the forces ie. conscripts who are almost all equipped with G3A6s, I figured that should be the only gun available.

Well, see this is where things get confusing. The G3A6 is the service rifle and there are hundreds of thousands in circulation within the Artesh. However, throughout the Iran-Iraq War Iran bought hundreds of thousands of Type-56s from China and North Korea. They even went as far as to reverse engineer them to for local production. If you watch Iran-Iraq War footage and study photography from that time, youll see that over time most Iranian soldiers of both Sepah/Pasdaran and Artesh slowly converted to AK-type rifles. The G3 is still seen and is abundant, mainly in parades and drills. Average conscripts in Iran are issued either G3 or Type 56/AKM/Iranian copy. I think providing players with the option to choose like you can with militia/INS would be sufficient in representing this disparity. We have to remember that the Iranian military has been devastated by sanctions and lack of care. Its really in disarray, with only a token portion of the IRGC actually being capable of putting up a fight against any foe. 

 

The same goes for the MGA3 and the PKM. Both are used by the Army, despite the fact that the MGA3 has been produced locally in Iran for decades. (Its strange, the PKM is objectively a better weapon as well. Its bizarre that they have clung to the MGA3 but I can't help but appreciate it and its aesthetic)

 

 

 

Edited by Brightnight

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On 11/25/2018 at 4:40 PM, FoxtrotOscar said:

Fair enough. If we consider the T-72S as the candidate then what would be it's difference from the Russian T-72B in terms of gameplay?

 

In regards to rifles too, I still think G3A6 should be more common and AKs of any variant just come in limited availability just to give the Iranian faction a unique taste. 

The t72S was a an export version of the cold war era T-72B ( model 1985) that was made available for e port in the late 80s. In post cold war era russia has simply sold off   T72Bs intended for the former Soviet army given thier large stocks of legacy tanks.

 

 

Anywys The Russians are using a modernised t72, the T72b3

 Not sure the exact designation by what  devs said it was supposed to be, but in terms of munitions issued and 3d modeling it's very much   make out to in fact be a T72B3M, not a basic T72B3. The irony being the t72b3m isnt that common at all only about 150 tanks are confirmed to have been modernized further from t72b3 to t72b3m standards. In some ways it's better than the  regular t90 models.

 

So a t72b ( or in this case t72s) it's going to have worse era. ( kontact 1)  which has no protection against kontetic energy based ammo, and a really archaic fire control by modern standards, no hunter killer capability, and no Thermals.

 

The the t72b/s also have weaker engines, So they also have worse mobility.

 

With regards to gunnery  in game this will translate to older sights and the commander position will not have fireable  heavy mg whilst buttoned up. That position will require manual   mg manning thus exposing the player in that slot from getting shot from the outside.

 

 

 

 

Edited by kev2go

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On 11/25/2018 at 1:40 PM, FoxtrotOscar said:

Fair enough. If we consider the T-72S as the candidate then what would be it's difference from the Russian T-72B in terms of gameplay?

 

In regards to rifles too, I still think G3A6 should be more common and AKs of any variant just come in limited availability just to give the Iranian faction a unique taste. 

The T-72S, like what @kev2go said, is the export of the T-72B (1985) version. The difference between the S and the B3 is that the B3 has newer optics, thermal imaging, Kontakt-5 era (Much better than Kontakt-1, which has no significant effect on APFSDS projectiles), a newer gun which can fire newer ammunition, and I believe a new engine. On some B3s, there is a slightly more modern glacis array which provides more protection. (Some of these B3s were upgrades of T-72 obr. 1989)

 

T-72S is poop version with crappy optics compared to B3.

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on another note, i would totally play Iranian faction just to play a faction that would have the M1911A1 as an side arm choice :P.

 

However the 1911a1 isnt the only sidearm option for Iran. The had these leftover and still in service from the SHAh's days but  since 1995 have Iran has  been producing unlicensed  clones of the Sig sauer P226 9mm pistol .

 

The  ZOAF PC9

 

 

amunition_1269547850132ue7.png

 

This could be added to offer handgun versatility, as most faction so far have at least 2 handgun types.

 

 

besides the y are also known to locally produce thier own Assault rifles.

 

 

 

Khaybar+KH2002.3.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by kev2go

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I've always been keen on the idea of adding Iran over a fictional MEC type faction given we've already got Russia, UK and US represented.

 

I agree with @Brightnight about having the G3 and AK as a choice for rifleman and SL. It'll serve to make the faction a little more interesting, especially with that KL-7 variant for visual separation from the irregulars.

 

Given the way optics for the Russians are handled in game I think we could get a few more than realistic for Iran to make up for the general technological disadvantage of the faction. Coupling this with the G3s would mean there would be a lot of pseudo-marksmen which might be interesting, inversely it could just be annoying but who knows.

 

Making it as a mod faction has crossed my mind a few times but since I've already got my modding plate full I won't be able to tackle it.

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There was at least one poll taken here and a new Chinese faction was overwhelmingly the leader if I recall correctly. However you can't make a named Chinese faction because the government will ban the game IRL. That said, I can't see yet another sandbox faction making any sense really. What the game is really lacking is a unique & distinctive fictional Asian faction in some kind of digital camo with jungle theater maps.

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Giving them all would just make them a infantry clone of the Russians. Especially if they all just go AK in CQC maps and G3 on open maps it would just give them too much versatility that others factions cant match (barring irregular forces but they have options for realism)

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Wouldn't they be getting AKM or Type56 clone? Hardly a copy of the Russian infantry ingame.

That said I'd much rather see the G3 as the standard rifle anyway, just give a few classes like Officer a choice.

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