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reaper5

please do not release this patch

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So first off, i have about 800 hours in game. I personally think you have taken a step back in game play with this V12 Play test. My reason for saying this is...

1) Gun play has taken a step back. Feels like v10 gun play (which was horrible) 

2) The Suppression system is so bad you get shot from ghosts.

3) Persistent ammo is terrible, i could see if your fob had the ammo and you spawn with the ammo. But spawning on a hab that has ammo and not getting it is a horrible idea. 

4) The new Hab system is a horrible update. It takes 0 skill to take on an enemy hab now.

5) The Sounds in game have taken a step back from V11 as well.

 

 

Good things i like what you did with V12.

1) The face lift on maps. (even though i wish we still had storage on Yeho)

2) The Tanks (obviously because we have ALL been waiting for those)

3) New updated weapons

4) More seats in the logi! huge plus!

 

 

I think you were onto something great with V11. If you were to add and update the maps in V11, add the tanks and new vic's and fix the current bugs we have in V11 you would have something AMAZING...

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I disagree with pretty much all of your negative points.

 

1) While my experience with the gunplay isn't perfect because I've been playing with 400+ ping what I have played with I like. I'm not a competitive player but I'm still able to keep my aim on target and get hits, but with enough of a challenge that it still feels rewarding and weighty.

2) There was a glitch where players were invisible that might be the reason for your ghost problem. The actual suppression works pretty well in my opinion. It's a small enough effect that it doesn't feel like you're losing control but enough of an impact to impede accurate fire at long ranges which makes suppressive fire a viable tactic.

3) I think the reasoning ammo isn't automatically resupplied when you spawn at a HAB is if the FOB is also doing something important like resupplying a tank or ATGM you don't want to have everybody that spawns missing a couple grenades draining the resources. Apart from that slight annoyance I think the persistent ammo system is extremely effective at heightening the importance of logistics and coordination from the squad level up. It also helps to make vehicles a lot more effective because the LAT can't just die and respawn constantly to go hunting again.

4) The HAB changes work really well to remedy the meatgrinder of V11 but whether or not they're too dramatic is a bit hard to tell at this point. It will definitely mean players will have to be more careful with FOB placement and given that FOB proximity requirements have been reduced and logitruck capacity increased it's easier to place more of them.

5) I know some people have issue with the M4 sound being unrealistic but the sounds overall have improved especially when it comes to heavy weapons like the M2 distance sounds. The small arms sound a bit more punchy overall which I enjoy.

 

Even though I love tanks and the visual improvements all of these mechanical changes are what makes V12 exciting for me.

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I kinda agree with OP. I played PS really couldn’t get into it as squad felt like the better game (v11). It feels like v12 has morphed more into a PS reskin now..even the give up screen is a copy and paste. The UI feels cheap and cluttered , the team select screen with soldier animation look low res and last gen. The spawn selection in game for rallies and fobs seems quirky 50/50 if I spawn in where I want. I have really enjoyed my 1500k hours on squad but this new version feels like a step backwards. I could live with the new mechanics in a v11 package but coupled with everything else I didn’t enjoy the play test as nearly as much as previously. 

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Gunplay was changed in recent patch, horizontal recoil isn't so prominent anymore. 

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It's a play test guys, stuff will still be tweaked depending on feedback. Simply asking not to release this patch is kind of pointless. Personally i've had some great experiences in the test so far. Teamwork matters more now. I've seen 2-man squads dedicated to logistics, people care more about where to place their HAB and are more careful about it, which is great imo. I'm also glad that the meatgrinders at HABs are gone, and flags thanks to the wave spawns.

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6 hours ago, reaper5 said:

So first off, i have about 800 hours in game. I personally think you have taken a step back in game play with this V12 Play test. My reason for saying this is...

1) Gun play has taken a step back. Feels like v10 gun play (which was horrible) 

2) The Suppression system is so bad you get shot from ghosts.

3) Persistent ammo is terrible, i could see if your fob had the ammo and you spawn with the ammo. But spawning on a hab that has ammo and not getting it is a horrible idea. 

4) The new Hab system is a horrible update. It takes 0 skill to take on an enemy hab now.

5) The Sounds in game have taken a step back from V11 as well.

 

 

Good things i like what you did with V12.

1) The face lift on maps. (even though i wish we still had storage on Yeho)

2) The Tanks (obviously because we have ALL been waiting for those)

3) New updated weapons

4) More seats in the logi! huge plus!

 

 

I think you were onto something great with V11. If you were to add and update the maps in V11, add the tanks and new vic's and fix the current bugs we have in V11 you would have something AMAZING...

2 basic things.

 

A- As  everything else: you need to adapt or leave it.

 

B- A "step back" for you, might be a "step forth" for other people. It´s a matter of what you want to see in the game and what kind of game you want to play.

 

Now I´ll only address some points:

 

2) I´ve Heard there was a bug making people invisible. And on the seconds hand, I don´t get how is that related to a suppression system. And Why is it horrible? Becuase it causes too much suppression?...or not enough?

More suppression is there to simulate realistic reaction under fire. Therefore, incentivicing real tactics. A good suppression system was required, we could argue then if this is good enough now.

 

3) Resource management (personal, squad´s and team´s) becomes  a factor here. Making it more important to calculate, manage and think ahead. All aspects that are necessary in a game that is not just a run and shoot around. Now you have to be aware of your ammo and where and when to resupply. The burden of that management can be equally distributed among the team. Now HAB´s are not just a magical base with everything you need to be reborn into the game so you can just keep running and shooting, but just a place to spawn in a "certain" security where resources can be focused, provided they get resupply from now and then. 

That implies certain responsability of where you place the fob and how to keep it running.

 

4) It´s not about the skill to take down a hab (which is still there), It´s about the skill to place and defend a HAB. As we said before, HABs up to now were this magical houses where soldiers can spawn in an unlimited way, with all the ammo and even if there are tons of enemies attacking it. Now it takes SKIL to know where to place it and how to keep it running. 

 

To be fair, and put some context to my thoughts, it should be said what kind of game I want to see. Or better, what kind of game I don´t want to see. I don´t want to see an unaproachable ARMA, and I don´t want another version of BF or COD. I want to see a game which rewards strategic thinking at every level (individual, squad, team), realistic tactics, and a variety or viable strategies to achieve objectives. 

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My experience with v12 is fantastic. The gameplay has slowed down and is now much more realistic and tactical. (the intent of the devs always).

The suppression I find it perfect, not excessive, but makes instant return fire difficult. Very different levels of suppression are also very interesting depending on the caliber and volume of fire.
Yesterday to assault Papanov, we left the MG and LMG on the hill, they started to suppress the building and we entered the base without problems. Fantastic

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I'm completely sick of HABs in V11 being insurmountable where it's impossible to take it down without spawnkilling occurring. And I'm so sick of being unable to pin down enemy marksmen/optics who pick you out in seconds even though machine guns are pouring hundred of bullets at him and being completely unswayed by it. It rewards solo sniping and marksmanship in general rather than real teamwork cover to cover tactics and firing as a whole squad based on more suppressive fire rather than single snipers twitch-shooting everyone off.

 

It's these two reasons I've stopped playing Squad and really hope V12 is going to change these two with the suppression system and hab changes.

Edited by Friesen

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12 hours ago, reaper5 said:

So first off, i have about 800 hours in game. I personally think you have taken a step back in game play with this V12 Play test. My reason for saying this is...

1) Gun play has taken a step back. Feels like v10 gun play (which was horrible) 

2) The Suppression system is so bad you get shot from ghosts.

3) Persistent ammo is terrible, i could see if your fob had the ammo and you spawn with the ammo. But spawning on a hab that has ammo and not getting it is a horrible idea. 

4) The new Hab system is a horrible update. It takes 0 skill to take on an enemy hab now.

5) The Sounds in game have taken a step back from V11 as well.

1)Still feels the same for me.

 

2)Was actually nice the devs are still working on suppression system. But was the effect too much? Yes. Was it a step back from the previous build? Heck no. I actually like how suppression can now affect your aiming, but I was hoping that could be changed as aim twitch instead of an aim sway. Aim sway when suppressed just feels underwhelming for me. 

 

3)Kind of skeptical with this change too. But I think this adds proper planning for the player as well

 

4)Love this update. Now HAB's aren't like impenetrable HQ military bases anymore. If a HAB is surrounded, it shouldn't get reinforcements that quick. They should defend with what they only have in that given time frame when being in contact with enemies. 

 

5) M4 sounds are quite a bit low quality for me. 

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Gotta say I agree with the suppression system in this post, I think suppression is effective how it is now and I think the new update to it is rough. Otherwise I like the new ammo system and so on.

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There is literally no point in supressing in V11, i'm just glad they added it in V12. It could've been done the same way as in PR, which would probably get most players to hate it (i mean, in PR it is kind of overdone). Right now it's quite nice imo.

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like i said, there are plenty of good things they did and came out with.... the bad outweighs the good in my opinion... 

 

to the person who said it takes skill to place and defend a hab... You have to be joking me right? it takes 0 skill to set up a 360 sit there and suppress and shoot people attacking... the skill comes from the people Attacking... yes it can get difficult to approach a cap and get to the hab... you talk about these meat grinders, yes they can be in v11 however why spawn on it then? dont you have a rally that you can spawn on and clear the objective so your team can hold and defend the point? 

 

now is OWI trying to make this a MIL SIM game? is it an arcade shooter? this is literally the only game i play on my PC and i love squad... i tried to play arma back in the day but its Mil Sim its not my style. V11 was promising in my eyes and a lot of other people i know and play with on a daily basis. you can add all these great vehicles into the game, the new weapons, the new maps (even though i wish you would keep some of the old versions of the maps so community servers can still play certain ones), but dont put out this new hab and rally system as well as fix the suppression system... that in my eyes would greatly improve squad... V12 is literally a completely different game than V11 almost as if they are trying to make it like PS which im sure every can say flopped. 

 

i do like how every one has their opinions and views on the game and thats what makes things like these forums so awesome... i just hope OWI looks and listens to everybody and actually stops in on random community servers and sees what actually takes place on those servers

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They do drop by on community servers from time to time. For HABs, let's take Al Basrah. Placing one in that map was always just a matter of finding a random building, place a radio, HAB and ammo crate, and done. No concequences for placing it near an enemy objective or anywhere really, and defences for it would just give away it's position and were useless to be in the game most of the time. Now you'll actually have to find a good spot for it that's easy to defend, like outside of the city. If you place it at a bad spot, you will be punished for it, and rightly so. Enemies will push it, and if you don't have proper defences, you will lose it more easily, which is good imo. So now it takes skill and thought to place one.

 

As for the rallies, let's just wait and see, i think it's an improvement, but it has to be tested more.

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At present HABs arn't worth enough in the bigger scheme of things 10 tkts isn't anything. Yeah you lose a spawn position, ok you don't have the defence or ammo but it doesn't break your team. This is becoming blasé with placement and security, whether this is a good thing or bad only time will tell.  Personal I liked the idea of increased cost. 

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On 08/11/2018 at 2:11 AM, reaper5 said:

So first off, i have about 800 hours in game. I personally think you have taken a step back in game play with this V12 Play test. My reason for saying this is...

1) Gun play has taken a step back. Feels like v10 gun play (which was horrible) 

at times feels like im getting one shot sniped .. at others feels more intense dunno yet ..jury out

Quote

2) The Suppression system is so bad you get shot from ghosts.

love the suppression... would agree that sometimes bullets are suppressing out of no where

Quote

3) Persistent ammo is terrible, i could see if your fob had the ammo and you spawn with the ammo. But spawning on a hab that has ammo and not getting it is a horrible idea. 

Persistent ammo makes it into a thinking mans game... the worst bit about it though is at the beginning of a match where the first fob is built and you spawn.. and you have no ammo...  that is painful.. however I like the rest of it

Quote

4) The new Hab system is a horrible update. It takes 0 skill to take on an enemy hab now.

agreed its to easy now... it needs explosives or vehicle to blow it ...and neither the radio nor hab should be able to be dug down only blown up.  Just feels like if you setup a mortar position or emplacements that you can now so easily lose those assets by the radio being dug up and the hab just surrounded.....it needs to be more permanent somehow..or at least difficult to get rid off.

 

Its one of my pet hates that you can take so long to build emplacements/ammo etc.. and enemy comes along and just digs up the radio and most of it evaporates into thin air... radio should not remove anything, if its removed it just stops the placememt of anthing else... everything else remains...and should be dug down or blown.

Quote

5) The Sounds in game have taken a step back from V11 as well.

Kinda confused about the sounds.. they sound muffled like fighting in a tunnel through cotton wool...

Quote

 

 

Good things i like what you did with V12.

1) The face lift on maps. (even though i wish we still had storage on Yeho)

2) The Tanks (obviously because we have ALL been waiting for those)

3) New updated weapons

4) More seats in the logi! huge plus!

 

 

I think you were onto something great with V11. If you were to add and update the maps in V11, add the tanks and new vic's and fix the current bugs we have in V11 you would have something AMAZING...

maps are great

tanks are awesome

 

 

the new UI though is... confused...

Edited by embecmom

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2 players should absolutely disable spawning on the HAB period. No more silly spawnkilling and getting killed as you try to take out the HAB from a magically spawning players inside the HAB.

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I was skeptical (unfortunately never played PR) about the fact that the HAB would be disabled with two enemies within 30 meters.
Instead I must say that it works great. The HAB defend themselves more now and with the rallies of some teams nearby it is not difficult to find the few enemies and kill them to re-enable the spawn.

 

As for the other changes, I am very happy. Now it is becoming the slowest and most tactical game that most players have always asked and wanted (as well as the Devs).

 

The suppression is perfect (in fact did not exist in v11) with all due respect to those who want a new BF and make videos on twich.

 

Rallies work great. Finally you always spawn with someone and you go into action along with others

 

Persistent ammo: waiting for the possibility to rearm exactly what you want, I also really like this new feature. It makes everything much less "run and gun" and the attacks and defenses must always be studied to avoid remaining without ammunition, forcing a team to study and even calculate the rearm, returning to a FOB, calling a vehicle, etc.

 

Only two things of the v12 that I do not like very much are the UI Deploy and Kit choice (confusing without reason), the 3D mark visible to all and new sound of the M4 (I preferred v11 sound, more metallic and "precise").

Edited by Tmac

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Totally agree and I would like to add

 

v12 is R U B I S H ! Optimization is still scandal! You have worked on it for nearly 2 years but it has become much worse! I have i3 8100 3.60 ghz GTX 1050 TI 2x8 2400 mhz RAM I got nearly 30 fps with lots of freeze in the game in low settings despite getting 40-60 fps in medium-high settings in v11. It's enough! Please solve the god damn problem!

 

 

 

 

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I think 2 is not enough to be able to stop a HAB from spawning, I personally think that's a little OP. I would say 3 would be enough to stop it.

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I think 2 is good but if they decide to turn it up to 3 then at least each enemy encroaching it within 100m should add  some 20 seconds delay penalty to players spawning on that HAB.

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Quote

5) The Sounds in game have taken a step back from V11 as well.

 

So what you're saying is, that everything sounding a lot better, more immersive and damn right ****ing awesome (eg. an AP round going whizzing over your head), is bad right? :So.O 

 

Sounds amazing on my 7.1 Dolby headphones.

 

Do you have a shit headset or sound card maybe?

 

I'll give you V12 isn't perfect in anyway, but you can't go to town on the sound. Never felt more audiology immersed in a game than with V12. Having an AP round fly past my head (Que audio clip from Fury *Below*) was absolutely mental and scary at the same time, having tanks firing their main guns close to you in deafening but awesome at the same time, having the M4 and AK actually sound like an M4 and AK is another good thing, HMG's sound amazing as well.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, MrJJuK said:

Sounds amazing on my 7.1 Dolby headphones.

Ive thought about buying surround headphones. Do you have those with virtual surround sound, or those with 3 speakers in each cup

 

I love the new sounds and suppression system. First time I got shot at I almost got PTSD ;)

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