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Gatzby

October 2018 Recap

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12 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

Reason nr. 362 for why wave spawning sucks.

Please list the other 361 reasons preferably in bullet point format with plenty of bold, italics and underline to help us children understand.

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That is a long list!

Giving the crewmen a unique look is a nice touch.

Also, I am really looking forward to the lot of changes you did to the maps (i.e. right clicking to point).

You also wrote, "All minimaps have been updated for better definition of roads and structures.";

can you please post an example of that here, @Gatzby? :)

Kokan would be a good example to show the differences, since it is difficult to "read" in several places.

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still needs to be an adjustment on the wave spawn so that your best option is never giving up in the first instance.

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2 hours ago, embecmom said:

your best option is never giving up

increase the ticket loss for giving up before the timer 'bleed out' effect.. at first it will suck for everyone else but until people learn to appreciate medics they will continue to give up as there's no penalty besides waiting a few more seconds to spawn.. I'm all for wave spawning it sounds good having everyone in a squad deploy at once rather than a trickle effect I haven't experienced it yet but on paper it sounds great, I either play as SL or medic and both frustrate me with having people spawn on the last spawn after asking them to hold spawns lol or as Medic when you go out of your way to revive someone only to have them give up when you're halfway there because they're too impatient to wait 30sec and you get yourself killed trying to get back into cover xD 

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0 optimization in 3 months. Game running like shit forever confirmed. (Unless you gave Intel 8th gen and a gtx 1080, of course)

 

@edit

The fps actually improved a lot and the shots actually hit the targets. Good job.

Edited by Sgt. ZÉ
update

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1 hour ago, Sgt. ZÉ said:

0 optimization in 3 months. Game running like shit forever confirmed. (Unless you gave Intel 8th gen and a gtx 1080, of course)

Came below 60fps plenty of times in the test a week or two back, now i don't get below 60 at all. What do you mean no optimization?

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4 hours ago, Twizted said:

increase the ticket loss for giving up before the timer 'bleed out' effect..

Ticket loss will just punish the team for giving up and not the individual.

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27 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

Ticket loss will just punish the team for giving up and not the individual.

exactly..

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4 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

Ticket loss will just punish the team for giving up and not the individual.

Yeah I said that at first it will suck for the entire team but it's the player mentality right now; unless it changes there's no system that can be put into place to counter it. The game is focused on team play not individual play; so when people give up they're effectively assisting the enemy team by reducing the ticket count and preventing medics from recovering tickets upon reviving. If the ticket loss was higher it would deter people from giving up so easily. I'm just saying I come from a Arma 3 milsim background where there are no respawns; I understand they are different games and I'm not comparing them just trying to explain the fact that if you give up on your team, your team gets punished regardless.. If people continue to play this game like it's battlefield nothing will change, regardless of whatever system we can think of lol.. 

 

Also as for the 0 optimisation in 3 months thing, I play Squad on epic @ 1080p on a GTX 970 and a 4th gen i7-4790 and it doesn't drop below 50 fps.Last year sure, fps drops and stuttering I'd be lucky to peak at 45fps lol.. Perhaps you should optimise your PC before claiming it's the game that's not optimised. I mean Narva still has issues for me and could be tweaked somewhat but that's literally the only map I get any FPS loss on.. even then I think it's more because of my old hardware than the game itself lol.. the urban setting probably doesn't do well for my 4yr old HDD with all those buildings to load haha xD 

Edited by Twizted
just adding stuff

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Since the ammo can be hit and will destroy the tank most of the time. Does this mean the T-72 will have the disadvantage of survivability compared to the M1A1 by having the ammo in a carousel under the turret instead of stored in armored sections with blowout panels to deal with detonations?

 

I would think if shell penetrates the T-72 it will have a good chance of hitting that ammo and popping the turret sky high. Especially with a center mass side shot or lower/mid UFP penetration.

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"Suppression will affect the way you take incoming fire now. When being shot at, incoming rounds will interrupt your aiming by increasing the amount of sway you experience. The more rounds fired at you, the more suppression you will experience. Larger caliber rounds will generate more of a suppression effect on you. You will not experience suppression if the fire is coming in from less than 10m away. Friendly forces will not be able to suppress you."

 

 

Oh no not the suppression aim punch that's in post scriptum? That is the worst game mechanic i've ever seen in a game. The only time this ever made sense in gaming is when CSGO made aim punch a thing and it still was a pretty bad game mechanic at the time but makes sense when a bullet hits your vest you obviously move, but this.... style i'm guessing from post scriptum is a dumb idea and makes no sense but I've yet to test it so obviously i don't know exactly how dumb it will be.

 

So the counter argument here is people think when you get shot at in real life that you move your body around uncontrollably even if the bullets miss you. My response to that is yes you would also probably shit yourself start crying or praying but not a trained rifleman or even a more advanced trained person but even then if that person is caught off guard without ear protection on they would probably flinch but then muscle memory would take over and they would start clearing and thinking/moving tactically to take down the enemy. So really think about the idea of having someone shoot at you in a game and miss... and you can't quickly react because you lost your aiming skills.

 

tldr;

Suppression aim punch is a bad mechanic.

Aim punch from a bullet hitting you and moving you (non-vital) would be the only way to make it a valid mechanic if you still had the ability to counter aim so that the shooter/gamer wouldn't feel useless. The best way to do this would be realistic damage simulation and physical movement to counter if your arm or leg got grazed/shot or your gun got shot in half (this would also be possible). This we wont see in games for awhile because it would take a lot of work just saying.

 

 

 

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@Twizted I believe it better to encourage players to wait for a revive through spawn timings then punish the team through ticket loss. This is especially true for public games. OWI just need to find that ballance. In v12 anyone can revive so getting revived before bleeding out is much more likely.

 

A good way I see it working.......

Wave spawning is every 60 seconds with a minimum spawn timing of 20 secs then you'll wait for the next wave so 60+20=80 seconds if you give up just at the wrong time. I think OWI should increase the minimum spawn timing to 60 secs and then adjust it based on give up/waiting for revive. If you give up remaining bleed out time is added the minimum respawn time. Wait for a revive during bleed out and the the time is subtracted from the minimum spawn timing. Even those timings are probably not ideal but trying to suggest a way to 'encourage' individuals not to give up with the chance of a 20 sec respawn.

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3 hours ago, smo0ths said:

Oh no not the suppression aim punch that's in post scriptum? That is the worst game mechanic i've ever seen in a game. The only time this ever made sense in gaming is when CSGO made aim punch a thing and it still was a pretty bad game mechanic at the time but makes sense when a bullet hits your vest you obviously move, but this.... style i'm guessing from post scriptum is a dumb idea and makes no sense but I've yet to test it so obviously i don't know exactly how dumb it will be.

 

So the counter argument here is people think when you get shot at in real life that you move your body around uncontrollably even if the bullets miss you.

No. That´s not the counter argument.

 

Nobody (or almost nobody) thinks that your body moves when you´re shot at and the bullets miss. Nobody argues that the aimpunch suppression mechanics is there to imitate the body of someone shaking when being shot at. That´s not Why it´s there.

 

For that matter, nobody thinks that you suddendly get almost blind around the edges because you´re being shot at. That´s not Why those mechanics are implemented.

 

It´s a videogame, and there is no better way to represent the instinct of survival than to do something that will prevent you from returning fire effectively and seek cover. 

 

You don´t die if you get shot like in real live, still, a way to REPRESENT what happens in reality is to come up with ways to make people "fear" getting shot and go into cover. It´s just that, a representation. Not an imitation of somehting that happens in the real world.

 

With those mechanics, the game sets the condition for basic ral life tactics to be useful here as well like for example, suppressive fire. In which you don´t aim to kill (of course if somebody pops up you shoot´em) but you aim the general direction making the enemy duck, maybe to be flanked, or maybe just to pin them in place. Maybe just to disctract them or getting them to stop shooting at you.

 

I support good suppression mechanics. I know they can be too much sometimes like in some games. But that can always be tweeked towards a perfect point for everyone.

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  • Tweaked third person weapon locations for almost all weapons.

So when my teammate going to pull out his pistol, his carabine going to be on his back visually in third person ?

 

 

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6 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

If you give up remaining bleed out time is added the minimum respawn time.

I like this idea, rather than a collective punishment like I was going for, you're reversing it like an encouragement vs criticism type of deal where the individual is more or less rewarded for waiting instead... Like a positive reinforcement thing training these monkeys not to give up xD 

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12 minutes ago, Twizted said:

I like this idea, rather than a collective punishment like I was going for, you're reversing it like an encouragement vs criticism type of deal where the individual is more or less rewarded for waiting instead... Like a positive reinforcement thing training these monkeys not to give up xD 

Yep, carrot and stick in one combo. For me it's about encouraging individuals to play a certain way rather than punish the whole team for that individual's actions.

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Guess it does make more sense too.. a bit like that old saying about "teaching a man to fish to feed him for a lifetime" isn't it? if you punish them straight up there's still a chance they wont learn on their own but you teach 1 to wait he can teach another and eventually the greater community knows how to fish or in our case not press that give up button :P 

5 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

support good suppression mechanics.

I also support this 100% suppression is a psychological effect as others have already said - probably one of the harder things to simulate in a game as each individual personality will react differently under suppression. The whole idea of being able to suppress people in these games is mobility (for your own team) and counter-mobility (preventing opfor making moves) so having a system in place that prevents the enemy from moving and/or engaging easily is going to get my vote.

 

I have this one incident in the past that haunts me -> I ordered my squad to suppress a building to cover other squads that were moving through the streets on Narva they were assaulting a FOB/HAB setup in one of those tall buildings. They fortified it really well and our team decided we needed a unified effort directed at this to take it down. Anyway we were a good 350-400m away with decent line of sight to the target building, had my whole squad on different levels of our own multistory start suppressing their building and just as our 2 squads were about to breach nearly all the windows in the target building appeared to have people firing down into the streets eliminated our assault in a good 10sec burst of window to ground fire LOL.

It was a really good play but my point being if suppression worked currently, they wouldn't have been able to just stand in the windows and wipe out 2 squads with ease.. they might have been able to drop a few but not easily you know.. I think a new suppression system will make this game 100% better. I haven't tested v12 myself, the game hates me and crashes to desktop before it loads but I'm liking what I've been hearing from other people and seeing on youtube. :D 

Edited by Twizted
adding responses rather than more posts lol

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One way to discourage people from giving up too easily is to just not allow them to give up at all....... It would also give you the incentive to play a bit more cautiously. Type respawn in console and you can only respawn at main with a suicide penalty. 

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9 minutes ago, LugNut said:

One way to discourage people from giving up too easily is to just not allow them to give up at all....... It would also give you the incentive to play a bit more cautiously. Type respawn in console and you can only respawn at main with a suicide penalty. 

Sometimes though it can be tactically advantageous to give up early. Perhaps the rally is far away from the area you were downed but closer to a previous cap that is now under attack and your SL has been asked to supply troops for that fight. I still think it is OK to have the option to give up but having penalties should make players think first to determine if it's worthwhile.

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14 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

I have a question about v12.

 

Any change about NAME TAGS????

 

I haven´t read anything and things have been quiet in that department for a while now.

You can change  the opacity and other bit. It's pretty kewl, even turn them off.

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