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liamNL

Squad system/types for vehicles.

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Well... a dedicated IFV squad should spend ammo and frags all the time. So if a Logi truck can resupply them with ammo whenever there is a lull in the battle, viola, two dedicated squads that complement each other.

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Apart from having dedicated Mechanized infantry squads and possible dedicated squads for singular assets. I also mentioned a possibility of a 2/3 man squad system that is responsible for manning a linked asset (which would also be linkable to an infantry squad assuming it's an IFV/APC). Additionally mentioned could be a kit restriction system based upon the status of the vehicle, such as when it is not active normal kits (medic, squadleader, rifleman) are unlocked for the 2/3 man squad to use whilst when the vehicle is available the normal kits could be locked and crewman kits could be made available.

 

I would just like to hear some feedback on considering vehicles as their own entities that are mostly free of a squad but still have options to either communicate with similar assets or with a infantry squad as a support vehicle.

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I just wanted to have a healthy discussion about possible ways to integrate vehicles in to squad without random squads running all Battlefield style to be the first in vehicle. You're not really adding anything to that discussion anymore.

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Bump di bump

 

Most of the time you can see two locked Tank squads not working together (if there are two Tanks on the map)

And allways you see Locked 30mm/Bradley/Warrier Squads (sometimes if you are lucky they are even working in pairs).... but never ever Mech.Inf Squads where One APC/IFV works with his (or any) Infantrysquad together.

So I m all for didicated Squads (and Limited 1x Tank-Squad for every two Tanks/ 1x Mech Inf. for every APC/IFV..etc)

 

If they are Auto-named(or marked of some other kind) with a standart (at least as an prefix) like Infantry / Logistic / Mech.Inf / Tank / etc. everybody  would know what playstyle to expect.

 

-If you create a Squad without choosing a SpecialSquad you are a Motorised Squad... every Kit availabe except Crewman you can drive around in MRAPs and Trucks

 

-Mech.Inf can have 2-3 Crewman but maybe no DM and GPMG (you have your Vic for accurate fire and suppresion)

-etc...

 

-Tank Squad Would only get Crewman (and if your Tank goes up in flames you are stuck to run and fight as a crewman... you had your fun... wait for your Tank to respawn or disbanden your Squad so somebody else can have a try)

or like this...

On 1.11.2018 at 4:26 PM, liamNL said:

Additionally mentioned could be a kit restriction system based upon the status of the vehicle, such as when it is not active normal kits (medic, squadleader, rifleman) are unlocked for the 2/3 man squad to use whilst when the vehicle is available the normal kits could be locked and crewman kits could be made available.


 

 

And maybelater on with the Commander/Heli some other didicated Squads like Mortar/Reccon/JTAC/AT-Pilot/Transport-Pilot

 

And I dont think the replayability would suffer in any way...

 

 

 

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IMO the best way to handle this is PR style, through server rules. Then you get to keep the amount of Squads so that you can call each squad leader with the numpad buttons and you get to keep the freedom to squad composition, and as in PR, servers will allow 1 apc for mech inf squads.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, fidanym said:

IMO the best way to handle this is PR style, through server rules. Then you get to keep the amount of Squads so that you can call each squad leader with the numpad buttons and you get to keep the freedom to squad composition, and as in PR, servers will allow 1 apc for mech inf squads.

Since this problem is not so new, but there are no such server rules, it is obvious not working that way.

 

and secondly you would still be able to call each squad leader with numpad buttons... why shouldnt you?

 
 
Edited by Titan84

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The numberpad squad chat only works up to squad 9, this is a limitation of the keyboard as in there are only 9 numberpad buttons available for it. Thus if there are more than 9 squads total you would need a rudimentary frequency setting to get in contact with the other squads.

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8 hours ago, liamNL said:

The numberpad squad chat only works up to squad 9, this is a limitation of the keyboard as in there are only 9 numberpad buttons available for it. Thus if there are more than 9 squads total you would need a rudimentary frequency setting to get in contact with the other squads.

ok... i know. But why would forcing the e.g. Tanks to work in one Squad and not in 2 make it harder to use numpadcoms? It would make for less squads so easier, doesn`t it?

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The downside of one squad operating a single asset is that cliques will form to make the squad first and only let in people they trust. You can see this in CAS squads in PR. Only certain people have dedicated scripts and methods to get assets earliest and keep it to their group of people they trust. Limiting the casual player to either only train in custom servers with a test airfield map or not playing in public because they aren't allowed by the squad host. Through this is somewhat preferable in my opinion to the usual Squad rush for the vehicle is the one who will get it.

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3 minutes ago, liamNL said:

The downside of one squad operating a single asset is that cliques will form to make the squad first and only let in people they trust. You can see this in CAS squads in PR. Only certain people have dedicated scripts and methods to get assets earliest and keep it to their group of people they trust. Limiting the casual player to either only train in custom servers with a test airfield map or not playing in public because they aren't allowed by the squad host. Through this is somewhat preferable in my opinion to the usual Squad rush for the vehicle is the one who will get it.

I think the key to limiting the usage and wasting of high value assets by randoms is to build in such an extreme difficulty level intrinsic to them that most people give up after a few times thus letting more dedicated players use them effectively.

 

That said, I feel like both MBT's are close in that respect. You're already seeing people not so enthusiastic to just jump in them and take off.

 

Personally I've taken the MBT's out around 20 times now, 18 very successful sorties and also lost 2 Abrams and figured out they're just not my thing. I'd much rather rip around in an open top MRAP any day.

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51 minutes ago, liamNL said:

The downside of one squad operating a single asset is that cliques will form to make the squad first and only let in people they trust. You can see this in CAS squads in PR. Only certain people have dedicated scripts and methods to get assets earliest and keep it to their group of people they trust. Limiting the casual player to either only train in custom servers with a test airfield map or not playing in public because they aren't allowed by the squad host. Through this is somewhat preferable in my opinion to the usual Squad rush for the vehicle is the one who will get it.

Mh... didnt know such scrips existed.

 

But, i dont think it would matter. Why?

(Ok since there is no CAS in game we cant talk about it, yet.)

If this would be an issue with Tanks it would be an issue already. Because nothing is stopping anybody to name his squad "Tank" and lock it letting only his friends drive with him.

If they are enough guys to man two Tanks, well i am fine. If they are good enough to keep the Tank rolling... well thats great. If not, but they are didicated enough to not disbanding the Tanksquad and play it out with Crewman-kits ... kudos to them they deserve the Tanks.

But if they are not enough to claim all the Tanks, somebody else could join them (dont lock squads unless[...] is one server-rule quite popular isnt it?)

And if they do disband the Squad, well anybody is free to make a new Tanksquad.

 

Or do i still get something fundamentaly wrong?

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One thing with that is still wrong, if the dedicated guys make a squad they don't just let anybody join the squad (at least usually) and thus restricts new people from playing the tanks, and if they do join and **** up as is usually the case then they get scolded for their ****-up and don't have the insentive to play tanks anymore because of the bad experiences. And those dedicated squads are usually friend clique's which means there will always be enough players in their friend group to fill the roles (unless on fringe hours then it might not be).

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2 hours ago, liamNL said:

One thing with that is still wrong, if the dedicated guys make a squad they don't just let anybody join the squad (at least usually) and thus restricts new people from playing the tanks, and if they do join and **** up as is usually the case then they get scolded for their ****-up and don't have the insentive to play tanks anymore because of the bad experiences. And those dedicated squads are usually friend clique's which means there will always be enough players in their friend group to fill the roles (unless on fringe hours then it might not be).

Oddly enough there is a very popular server that has a supplemental rule that dictates that there be two separate MBT squads with no more than 4 players. To me it makes way more sense to have all 8 in one squad to keep the number of squads below 9.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Oddly enough there is a very popular server that has a supplemental rule that dictates that there be two separate MBT squads with no more than 4 players. To me it makes way more sense to have all 8 in one squad to keep the number of squads below 9.

Not sure if i would play on it, i am not a fan of over managed servers. And the sort of admins on these servers.

The only legit additional rule i see is, that vehicles that require the crewman kit need 2 operators.

Edited by Axel

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Problem with all vehicles in one Squad is the lack of Information or the additional handicap of passing on the Information from SL to Squad and ofc the lack of a Vehicle channel.

>9 Problem could be solved with "Key"+Numpad

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2 minutes ago, gshAT said:

Problem with all vehicles in one Squad is the lack of Information or the additional handicap of passing on the Information from SL to Squad and ofc the lack of a Vehicle channel.

>9 Problem could be solved with "Key"+Numpad

If 8 players are in the same squad and in two different MBT's why wouldn't they all be able to communicate? Forcing them into two separate squads however does limit communication.

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22 minutes ago, Axel said:

Not sure if i would play on it, i am not a fan of over managed servers. And the sort of admins on these servers.

The only legit additional rule i see is, that vehicles that require the crewman kit need 2 operators.

Agreed. This should be coded into the vehicle blueprint however not enforced by admin who aren't always on their servers. I've seen plenty of one manning of MBT's going on.

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Posted (edited)

In this case there is a lot of overcommunication if they use the Squad Channel. Gunner of Vehicle 1 doesnt need bearings from Vehicle 2 in most cases for example.

If both vehicles have their own SL they can communicate to coordinate via SL channel.

Another thing (and this might not be the case especially on public) is that a one Vehicle Squad is easier reached by all other SLs that need support. While i know that sometimes vehicles do their own thing it is actually technically easier to get support from a Special Vehicle if they are in a closed Squad.

 

Ps: someone knows how to disable this autocorrect in Edge? making me crazy.

Edited by gshAT

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5 minutes ago, gshAT said:

In this case there is a lot of overcommunication if they use the Squad Channel. Gunner of Vehicle 1 doesnt need bearings from Vehicle 2 in most cases for example.

If both vehicles have their own SL they can communicate to coordinate via SL channel.

Another thing (and this might not be the case especially on public) is that a one Vehicle Squad is easier reached by all other SLs that need support. While i know that sometimes vehicles do their own thing it is actually technically easier to get support from a Special Vehicle if they are in a closed Squad.

 

Ps: someone knows how to disable this autocorrect in Edge? making me crazy.

In my experience so far it's far better to have both the MBT's in one squad and keep them together in the field.

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Posted (edited)

Nothing prevents you to stay together.

it is the same with the stupid (sry) wave spawn System, which encourages random give ups to be on the next wave. Nothing was hindering you from communicating to the Squad to hold the Rally and actually Rally up there. Although the unlimited spawns are better now imo. But thats another topic. 

 

pros for a locked, one vehicle Squad:

Every SL can reach a single Vehicle directly.

All vehicles get the same Intel the same time

Crews can talk to themselves without disrupting or distracting other vehicles.

 

Ive played alot in both types and from my experience this is the better solution. 

 

 

Edited by gshAT

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Some ideas to the logistic Squad Topic:

 

with the new mechanic of disabling FOBs and persisting ammo i still dont get why there are no or few dedicated 3 man logi Squads. In my opinion  you cant hold a flag with only one FOB which still seems the way to go.  It is more or less based on luck how long it takes to get overrun. So there should always be a backup FOB.

Im not sure if i like the proposed idea of building a FOB alone. Driving alone in a truck somewhere just soloing. Just doesnt feel right. Although im not sure how to make it more attractive to the other 2 People who are with you. Maybe it is again just the way we play and handle the mechanic.

A decent set up for AAS is 2 Defence fobs and one attack FOB.

Im not sure if there really is a need for more than 3 maybe 4 FOBs especially at the beginning.

While attack and flag FOBs mostly are made by normal Squads the Backup FOB could be made by the Logistics Squad which can be upgraded to Mortar FOB later for example. giving a Task to every of the 3. (SL, Driver, 3rd guy). So the FOB actually stays defended and not left on its own.

If somethings is about to change on the flags the Logistics Squad again should be on the move and be one step ahead to already prepare for the new Situation.

 

It is actually not too boring Gameplay. You spend a lot time reading the map, the game and anticipating, which if you do it right can actually be rly satisfying.

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34 minutes ago, gshAT said:

pros for a locked, one vehicle Squad:

Every SL can reach a single Vehicle directly.

All vehicles get the same Intel the same time

Crews can talk to themselves without disrupting or distracting other vehicles.

Cons for locked vehicle Squads:

No shared markers (Attak/Defend/Move/etc.), so Less chared Intel

So much more clutter on the Commandchanel (if they dont use direkt SL coms (what nobody dose atm))

If the other Tank2-SL doesn't communicate with your Squad you as a Tank1-SL can`t do much about it

 

If you are in the same Vehicle use local.

(Ofc. i think that if you are in the same Vic your position in the Vic shouldnt matter and you should hear everyone in  this Vic as loud as SL-Coms.)

 

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Posted (edited)

-on map, markers are shared! (attack, mvmnt, etc and also hostile Forces markers)

-still there is the mechanic to directly communicate. and often Vehicle to Vehicle communication is as important as Information for all others as INF Squad to INF Squad communication is. 

-what if you are the SL who is not communicating with other SLs and got 3 vehicles in your Squad?

If i refuse to play the game properly or even sabotage the game what do you do? get an admin and enforce teamplay. thats not really a Problem on most Servers.

 

Local Chat, as it is now is not really suited for vehicles.

 

But i think that it is good that Squad gives you the freedom to do as you prefer. 

 

 

Edited by gshAT

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