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SquidNinja17

Reload Animation Ejection Port Checking (WHY)

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I am over all very impressed with everything in this game, from the intensely detailed graphics to the accurate look, sound and feel of all equipment in the game. The reload animations for small arms have a serious, nagging problem though. He always checks the goddamn chamber. WHY? You do that shit for RANGE SAFETY! You will never ever see someone do a crisp safety check on their weapon after reloading down range. At a qual range, absolutely. They're required to. But this is just silly. I know it doesn't slow down the reload process all that much, but it still does, and it's totally out of place. PLEASE please please scrap that shit, my butt hole tenses up with annoyance every time I see it.

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I feel like this is simply where gameplay overtakes realism a bit. It makes reloading your gun slightly more risky, making it better to have teammates around you, promoting teamwork aswell as a slightly slower game pace. Never having used a gun irl, i really don't care personally, but i can see how it would trigger some people. :P

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8 hours ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

I feel like this is simply where gameplay overtakes realism a bit. It makes reloading your gun slightly more risky, making it better to have teammates around you, promoting teamwork aswell as a slightly slower game pace. Never having used a gun irl, i really don't care personally, but i can see how it would trigger some people. :P

No.This has minimal effect on game "balance", which has been used as a piss poor excuse in a lot of games to just ignore things like this. Squad is a game that strives for realism, and this change would definitely be in the direction it's going for. Everything else was handled exceptionally well, namely weapon accuracy and damage model, as well has movement (although I'm sure the movement could use some tweaking, I haven't played enough yet). There's absolutely no reason that reloading needs to be stunted to make it things harder. Random malfunctions and slip ups would be cool though.

 

The thing about these games is that if you understand how things work well enough and ingrain that into the game, you don't need to add bullshit to make combat as difficult as you think it would be. Also understand that making things too uniform, such as reload time, would make it fall in line more with competitive shooters like counterstrike. To make a more realistic game, where real world principles can be applied, you would benefit from things like variable reload times, malfunctions, and other unexpected changes that force you to react and make decisions on the fly, and also prepare accordingly for things that could go wrong.

For the record, because these things are important on the interweb, I have spent a good amount of time with the M4 and 240b at the range.

 

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Well that's just the thing, Squad is not trying to be realistic with everything. It has some realistic feeling to the gameplay yes, but overall it's still just a shooter made for fun. Squad has a pretty big competetive community, if you'd add stuff like random malfunctions, slip ups and varied reload times, it could alienate a portion of it's current playerbase who don't want it to be too realistic.

 

Now, again, for me the current reload animation is fine, even though i know it's not realistic, or doesn't make sense. It works for me, i like knowing exactly how long an animation takes, it allows me to prepare better, and be better aware of my situation (is it smart to reload now or are they too close etc..). Never been to a firing range, or fired a gun in general, it shouldn't matter, it's just a game.

 

Anyways, just my opinion on the matter.

Edited by Guan_Yu007

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40 minutes ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

Well that's just the thing, Squad is not trying to be realistic with everything. It has some realistic feeling to the gameplay yes, but overall it's still just a shooter made for fun. Squad has a pretty big competetive community, if you'd add stuff like random malfunctions, slip ups and varied reload times, it could alienate a portion of it's current playerbase who don't want it to be too realistic.

 

Now, again, for me the current reload animation is fine, even though i know it's not realistic, or doesn't make sense. It works for me, i like knowing exactly how long an animation takes, it allows me to prepare better, and be better aware of my situation (is it smart to reload now or are they too close etc..). Never been to a firing range, or fired a gun in general, it shouldn't matter, it's just a game.

 

Anyways, just my opinion on the matter.

It absolutely is trying to be realistic, the devs were behind Project Reality for Christ sake. I really don't understand why you're replying to this thread at all. I get that you like the game just the way it is, but it's an alpha, still in development. I'm trying to send up suggestions for improvements, regardless of how satisfied people are with how easy it is for them. If people don't want it to be more realistic they can go play literally any other shooter. And if something like not being able know the exact microsecond count it takes to reload "alienates" someone from the game, that's really too bad for them. If it really doesn't matter to you, and you really don't know anything about the subject (as you made a point to state multiple times) then why are you chiming in at all?

You people wonder why early access games always end up being incomplete bags of shit, it's because of complacency caused by the abundance of feedback from people who don't care about actually giving feedback. be gone thot

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Time to agree to disagree and move on. Try to keep discussion civil, no need to tell people to move on to other games, or throw in insults - This adds nothing to discussion and only ends up being fuel for a flame war, which we don't want on these forums.

While squad does aim to have realistic qualities, it also aims to have fun arcade elements too. The main idea behind squads design, is to hit a certain niche, between realism and arcade - to create a game that is accessible and easy to jump into. 

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I don't agree with the tone you posted this with, but I do agree with the point you are trying to make. I still remember playing project reality for a few years, and then deviation got introduced along with painfully slow animations (yes, PR had Squad level weapon accuracy at one point), almost made me quit the game, to be honest. As if that wasn't enough they removed the ability to pick up enemy kits, I still remember how picking up a British HAT or a sniper kit as an insurgent was like finding oil, aah the good times when we had more options in games. 

All in all, sometimes I question the gameplay decisions they made and are still making, for example, I don't believe in making things too accessible like Dubs mentioned above.

"Accessible and easy to jump into" is not what PR devs had in mind when they created that infamous long manual most new players were directed to following a server kick.

 Sometimes, the best long-term solution is to set a standard under which you are NOT willing to go, it's one of the reasons Red Orchestra and Darkest Hour mod are still played among many other games and mods. To me, it's about separating the wheat from the chaff. Attracting the new generation of Battlefield and Fortnite players seems like a death sentence, as I've seen it happen many times since I got into gaming back in '98. You see a lot of shit and notice patterns after 20 years, I predicted what would happen to battlefield franchise back in 2011, along with the rest of EAUK forums, but devs don't listen.

It begins as a passion, and later turns in to making as much money as possible while being under stress and deadlines, and trying to shove as many customers as possible into a product, I've seen it before, nothing new. If you are lucky, you get to enjoy the process from time to time and get to admire your work in the end.

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On 10/13/2018 at 5:00 PM, SquidNinja17 said:

I am over all very impressed with everything in this game, from the intensely detailed graphics to the accurate look, sound and feel of all equipment in the game. The reload animations for small arms have a serious, nagging problem though. He always checks the goddamn chamber. WHY? You do that shit for RANGE SAFETY! You will never ever see someone do a crisp safety check on their weapon after reloading down range. At a qual range, absolutely. They're required to. But this is just silly. I know it doesn't slow down the reload process all that much, but it still does, and it's totally out of place. PLEASE please please scrap that shit, my butt hole tenses up with annoyance every time I see it.

 

The game aims for realism. True operators always safety check their firearms before reloading least you double chamber a round and have an accident. Happens often on M4 type weapons. One round loose in the chamber, you put another mag in and release the bolt and BAM, tip of the next round sets off the primer of the stuck round. Go on youtube and look up range videos.

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9 hours ago, swineninety9 said:

 

The game aims for realism. True operators always safety check their firearms before reloading least you double chamber a round and have an accident. Happens often on M4 type weapons. One round loose in the chamber, you put another mag in and release the bolt and BAM, tip of the next round sets off the primer of the stuck round. Go on youtube and look up range videos.

     Trying to be civil here, but again, that is objectively false. No idea where you're getting the "true operator" thing from, but this game isn't about special operators. It's about infantry forces in combat. Like I said before, it's great practice at the range but not something you will often see in a fire fight. If you're dry, drop mag slap another in place and hit the bolt release. If you're not dry, you just change and fire. If you have to or want to, yank on the charging handle. Malfunction under fire? Keep yanking on the charging handle. Yeah, you conduct SPORTS or whatever if the situation allows, but again that's for malfunctions. Double feeds are a bitch, but you do what you can. Take cover and un **** it.
     Any how, the only point I'm trying to make is that the animation doesn't fit or make sense to the game's overall setting or direction. Looks goofy to me and my buddy at least. And to mister Dubs, I'm sorry man I don't mean to turn people away from your product, I want a healthy player base and support line for it after all, but in my opinion it's better to alienate a few and achieve the best you can aim for than to be all inclusive for the sake of maxing out your customer count. Gotta balance the art with the business, you know?
     Final thoughts, I think I'd like to open up a separate thread for weapon malfunctions.

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On 10/14/2018 at 3:16 AM, SquidNinja17 said:

No.This has minimal effect on game "balance", which has been used as a piss poor excuse in a lot of games to just ignore things like this. Squad is a game that strives for realism, and this change would definitely be in the direction it's going for. Everything else was handled exceptionally well, namely weapon accuracy and damage model, as well has movement (although I'm sure the movement could use some tweaking, I haven't played enough yet). There's absolutely no reason that reloading needs to be stunted to make it things harder. Random malfunctions and slip ups would be cool though.

 

The thing about these games is that if you understand how things work well enough and ingrain that into the game, you don't need to add bullshit to make combat as difficult as you think it would be. Also understand that making things too uniform, such as reload time, would make it fall in line more with competitive shooters like counterstrike. To make a more realistic game, where real world principles can be applied, you would benefit from things like variable reload times, malfunctions, and other unexpected changes that force you to react and make decisions on the fly, and also prepare accordingly for things that could go wrong.

For the record, because these things are important on the interweb, I have spent a good amount of time with the M4 and 240b at the range.

 

It is a game that gives even Taliban soliders extermely accurate individual GPS and godlike radios that always work despite the actual environment, let alone the fact that you can still communicate while being shot dead.

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On ‎14‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 5:54 AM, Dubs said:

Time to agree to disagree and move on. Try to keep discussion civil, no need to tell people to move on to other games, or throw in insults - This adds nothing to discussion and only ends up being fuel for a flame war, which we don't want on these forums.

While squad does aim to have realistic qualities, it also aims to have fun arcade elements too. The main idea behind squads design, is to hit a certain niche, between realism and arcade - to create a game that is accessible and easy to jump into. 

Loved your post!

I really support that intention to hit that mid point between realism and arcade. The main issue is that more than a middle point, there is a loooong segment upon which the difference can be huge. Is RO between those two points 2? Interesting discussion.

 

On ‎14‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 6:45 AM, MilosV said:

It begins as a passion, and later turns in to making as much money as possible while being under stress and deadlines, and trying to shove as many customers as possible into a product, I've seen it before, nothing new. If you are lucky, you get to enjoy the process from time to time and get to admire your work in the end.

Oh yes...I hear you. I really want these devs to get it right. I can just hope. They have my support.

 

Nevertheless…may

be many years from now, after Squad is taken over by arcady gameplay in order to make money, some people will créate a mod from squad to make a SQUAD PR. And then we will devote ourselves as we did to PR. 

 

On ‎16‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 2:56 AM, SquidNinja17 said:

     but in my opinion it's better to alienate a few and achieve the best you can aim for than to be all inclusive for the sake of maxing out your customer count. Gotta balance the art with the business, you know?
 

I really don´t think anybody will stop playing this game if they get rid of that part of the animation. As I think you won´t stop playing this game if they don´t do it.

 

3 hours ago, Noobgamer said:

It is a game that gives even Taliban soliders extermely accurate individual GPS and godlike radios that always work despite the actual environment, let alone the fact that you can still communicate while being shot dead.

Exactly! +1

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I think though this point has been made many times before and some fixes were put in place... GL animation moving between the launcher and rifle firing was horrible.. (was it really ever sorted?).. We continue to get the painful animation for safety first with RPGs when looking to change weapons and yes certain elements of checking over the weapon everytime whilst loading in the middle of a battle is frustrating. 

 

These are small things compared to other game mechanics that need sorted but would be nice to see fixed at somepoint... it seems silly screaming about realism in a rifle animation yet we have magic spawn points and can drive any vehicle without the need to put in a key, change gear or refuel ..a medic that can magically heal any wound and you get to come back to life as many times as tickets left...you get a 'realism' flavour but the game is far from realistic.

Edited by embecmom

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