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JovenTroll

I think Nerfing Rally Points is a bad idea

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12 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

It's two within 30m of the HAB. Had a game yesterday where we had a lone marksman sneaking around our fob and we were still able to spawn there and take him out

tks for clarity.. just felt like it was as easy to take a hab down as  a rally...because of the spawn stopping.  

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On 31.10.2018 at 6:29 PM, CptDirty said:

Your entire argument here is that transport squads are the answer for nerfing/removing RP's. Forcing people to use transport vehicles, by nerfing/removing RP's, is far from being a form of encouragement.

And the Medic class is a way to force you to depend on other players, everyone should have medic bags to heal themselves, blablabla. You're just using the word 'force' selectively and applying it to things you disagree with. Fundamentally, all game mechanics 'force' behavior, that is their purpose. This is an entirely useless discussion that I have no interest in engaging in.

 

I simply think that transportation should be a viable option to spawning on FOBs and RPs, and that must be done by making these three things more equal in terms of how powerful they are. Giving players more points for transporting people, for instance, is not going to make the fundamental act of transportation any more powerful. People aren't going to choose to transport their squad because that gives the driver more points if other options are more effective. And people aren't going to run Transport squads just because they get more points if that entails sitting around doing nothing for 70% of the match.

 

You need a game mechanics that a) keeps transport squads occupied for a substantial duration of the match, and b) makes the transportation option a viable method of deploying on the battlefield, on par with other options(FOBs and RPs).

 

And no, this does not mean taking people out of the action more. People often choose to spawn on a faraway FOB and walk to their objective instead of spawning at main and driving there in half the time or less. This happens because most of the time transportation is not the most effective deployment option, so there's no dedicated transport squads because the demand is too low, and so players are conditioned to think of FOBs and RPs as their options. And even if they choose to use transport from main, since there are no dedicated squads it ends up being a one-off thing. The squad spawns at main, jumps in the truck, drives to their objective, and leave the vehicle there. This depletes the vehicle availability at main, and soon enough there's no transport vehicles in main. It's an unsustainable option.

 

As for your list of "Transport buffs", those things will have practically no effect on the viability of transportation as a deployment method.

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13 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

As for your list of "Transport buffs", those things will have practically no effect on the viability of transportation as a deployment method.

I'm not asking for your opinion. I'm asking whether you're willing to compromise to the list I came up with in order to encourage the use of transportation?

 

Edited by CptDirty

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9 hours ago, CptDirty said:

I'm not asking for your opinion. I'm asking whether you're willing to compromise to the list I came up with in order to encourage the use of transportation?

It would do nothing to encourage the use of transportation, so no.

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2 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

It would do nothing to encourage the use of transportation, so no.

Bud you need to start working with and listening to others. It’s getting old with you. So again:

 

You state that transport squads will become a necessity after nerf/removal of RP’s. What else, apart from that, is needed in your view in order to boost usage of transport squads? 

 

Don’t write an essay please. Keep it short. 

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5 hours ago, CptDirty said:

You state that transport squads will become a necessity after nerf/removal of RP’s. What else, apart from that, is needed in your view in order to boost usage of transport squads? 

Nothing. Short enough for you?

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1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

Nothing. Short enough for you?

Ahh so you’re incapable of compromising to achieve middle ground. Gotcha. You’re wired to disagree with people on the other end of the aisle because if the game doesn’t appeal to you it shouldn’t appear to no one.

 

Im against nerf/removal of RP’s but at least I’m capable of at least providing a set of reasonable and positive conditions to meet you and others with the same mindset half way. 

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21 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

Ahh so you’re incapable of compromising to achieve middle ground. Gotcha. You’re wired to disagree with people on the other end of the aisle because if the game doesn’t appeal to you it shouldn’t appear to no one.

 

Im against nerf/removal of RP’s but at least I’m capable of at least providing a set of reasonable and positive conditions to meet you and others with the same mindset half way. 

Listing random crap that has no impact on the viability of transport is not compromising. How about we compromise by adding explosive fishsticks that players throw like a boomerang to the game? Oh, you don't think that's relevant to the subject of transport? Why won't you compromise, CptDirty?

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14 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

Listing random crap that has no impact on the viability of transport is not compromising. How about we compromise by adding explosive fishsticks that players throw like a boomerang to the game? Oh, you don't think that's relevant to the subject of transport? Why won't you compromise, CptDirty?

You know what, I tried, but clearly there’s no reasoning with you. All you do is disagree with people.

 

Next time you use the unlimited spawns on v12 RP’s, think of me ;) 

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I can tell you with some veracity that some variation of RP or HAB will always exist in this game regardless what anybodies opinion are. Without them you'd have a core worldwide community of about 100 players and a couple servers.

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8 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I can tell you with some veracity that some variation of RP or HAB will always exist in this game regardless what anybodies opinion are. Without them you'd have a core worldwide community of about 100 players and a couple servers.

Agreed. 

 

Even if the intention is to "make transportation squads a viable option for redeployment" it still isn't good enough (in my opinion) to only nerf/remove RP's without seriously looking at other game mechanics for some tweaks. 

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Even in the v12 play test with the new RP/HAB system it does nothing to prevent the rushers on your team hogging all the logistics and transports, rushing the central point, getting wiped and then leaving everything abandoned.

 

In the later Delta Force games that had driveable vehicles if you got out and left it somewhere it would simply respawn back at the base in roughly two minutes after being abandoned. I could see that being a useful feature to include in Squad from an arcade standpoint.

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4 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

In the later Delta Force games that had driveable vehicles if you got out and left it somewhere it would simply respawn back at the base in roughly two minutes after being abandoned. I could see that being a useful feature to include in Squad from an arcade standpoint.

Uh!...that´s a big no no if you ask me.

 

Things like that sound like BF. Do anything you want, there´s no consequence to your actions. A logi abandoned in the middle od the map is a logi abandoned and one less logi for the team. The team´s loss.

 

Act responsibly and play competitively, work together with your team and that won´t happen. Anyway...it doesn´t happen that much. Actually, it almost never happens with logis, just with transport.

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Just get with a modder and nerf the RP and test it out, then we see what happens.

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Someone's trying to force APCs to happen by removing transport trucks from RAAS maps

 

All the issues with APCs in v11 are still valid in v12. Plus maybe some new ones, I don't think it's realistic to expect more than maybe two vehicle squads and those will undoubtedly be in tanks/IFVs. So crewman in squads is the order of the day, the worst way to do it tbh but it's all you can do if those are your only vehicles and the next flag is 2km away. I'd sooner use a Logi, but a lost logi can be a game loser.

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1 minute ago, Good-Try Greg said:

Someone's trying to force APCs to happen by removing transport trucks from RAAS maps

 

All the issues with APCs in v11 are still valid in v12. Plus maybe some new ones, I don't think it's realistic to expect more than maybe two vehicle squads and those will undoubtedly be in tanks/IFVs. So crewman in squads is the order of the day, the worst way to do it tbh but it's all you can do if those are your only vehicles and the next flag is 2km away. I'd sooner use a Logi, but a lost logi can be a game loser.

I'm pretty sure it's got more to do with the face that logistics trucks can carry ten people now. 

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56 minutes ago, XRobinson said:

Just get with a modder and nerf the RP and test it out, then we see what happens.

It would be too much of a controlled test, the behavior of the testing players won't be the same as the ones playing publicly now which would affect conclusions :( 

 

 

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In my experience with V12 the new rally system seems to work pretty well.

 

Because it has unlimited wave spawns but doesn't refill ammo it acts as it should and just rallies the squad. You still need a logistical connection, whether that be a FOB or vehicle, so you can't detach your squad from the rest of the team if you hope to be flexible or even survive.

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In my limited experience in v12 so far, it seems to work pretty well too. We had a guy completely dedicates to logistics for about 5 rounds. It really had a positive impact for our team. We were about to get rolled, but managed to hold 2 flags back, just because of how well supplied we were compared to the other team. We were able to spam mortar fire, and the HAT kit and TOW was able to work for extended periods of time. Eventually we pushed em back and won the game.

 

So far so good in my experience. People are still learning and figuring stuff out, give it time and they'll all adapt.

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On 05/11/2018 at 12:32 PM, Guan_Yu007 said:

In my limited experience in v12 so far, it seems to work pretty well too. We had a guy completely dedicates to logistics for about 5 rounds. It really had a positive impact for our team. We were about to get rolled, but managed to hold 2 flags back, just because of how well supplied we were compared to the other team. We were able to spam mortar fire, and the HAT kit and TOW was able to work for extended periods of time. Eventually we pushed em back and won the game.

 

So far so good in my experience. People are still learning and figuring stuff out, give it time and they'll all adapt.

most people I have played with in v12 like the rally system it keeps the squad together even more rather than individuals rushing in one by one... most are less excited about the persistent ammo but personally I like it....

 

Nothing will stop rushers... I havent played any of the random flag maps yet to see how that pans out...

 

some are moaning because the maps are much bigger and funnily enough they didnt look after their vehicles so find themselves running alot... this may force more vehicle usage in the right way but the long distance firefights on the large maps are fantastic.

 

 

On 03/11/2018 at 11:12 PM, CptDirty said:

You know what, I tried, but clearly there’s no reasoning with you. All you do is disagree with people.

 

Next time you use the unlimited spawns on v12 RP’s, think of me ;) 

just remember its random crap because he didnt write it... it wouldnt be if he had.

Edited by embecmom
dreadful spelling

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Wave spawning baffles me. In v12, RPs are just the lazy man's FOB. And if you build a real FOB nearby it always makes more sense to spawn there instead, squad cohesion be damned. It's pretty close to useless for getting your squad together.

 

And the main issue is that people do get split up, it just happens... You need rallies to get your squad back together.

Edited by Good-Try Greg

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So i finally was able to play test V12 yesterday.

The new Rally Point mechanic is strange at the begin, but you get use to it fast. I can't see any downsides apart from that you may have to wait a bit longer to respawn if you miss the right time to spawn. The Meta around the RP is a bit different, but not game breaking. I could almost play like in V11.

What i like the most about it, is that as a Squad Leaders, i don't always have to refresh the RP.

I think Squad Leaders have a heavy work load during games and a rewarded by a bit more of personal pew pew, thanks to the infinite spawn on Rally Points.

I like it!

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On 6-11-2018 at 11:51 PM, Good-Try Greg said:

Wave spawning baffles me. In v12, RPs are just the lazy man's FOB. And if you build a real FOB nearby it always makes more sense to spawn there instead, squad cohesion be damned. It's pretty close to useless for getting your squad together.

 

And the main issue is that people do get split up, it just happens... You need rallies to get your squad back together.

Just be a good squadleader with a clear plan and good communication with the squad, and that should not be much of an issue. I haven't had such problems yet personally.

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Yeah when are together it's fine....  When you start to respawn it's a damn free for fall. Even in the best case scenarios sometimes you still have to walk for minutes to get back to your squad (because, surprisingly, squads don't just drop dead at the same time). As the SL it's crippling because rallies were your main tool for leading your squad and keeping them together.

 

'having a clear plan and communicating' is exactly the thing Rallies break... You can just hide them in the hills and the whole game becomes one long indecisive shooting match. That's the problem with them... still in v12. Seems to me they accidentally broke the only good part of rallies instead.

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11 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

Yeah when are together it's fine....  When you start to respawn it's a damn free for fall. Even in the best case scenarios sometimes you still have to walk for minutes to get back to your squad (because, surprisingly, squads don't just drop dead at the same time). As the SL it's crippling because rallies were your main tool for leading your squad and keeping them together.

 

'having a clear plan and communicating' is exactly the thing Rallies break... You can just hide them in the hills and the whole game becomes one long indecisive shooting match. That's the problem with them... still in v12. Seems to me they accidentally broke the only good part of rallies instead.

wow this thread is still going!... 

 

I like the new rally system.

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