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Caliell

Subjective Annoying things that Need to go Away (Rant)

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Squad had made many strides, but there are currently a lot of things in the game just need to be rid of and do not make any sense:

 

1) Pulling charging handle on heavy machine guns while every time mounting gunner slot, with already chambered round in. What the fck? In real life this is waste of already chambered round in the machine gun.

2) Inability to duck and do "Somali Style" fire of the said above machine guns: Battlefield 2 had it. Why can't Squad have it?

3) Poor penetration physics of some objects. I just had the match on invasion map, where there was the prop box in the building towards window covered with glass. Upon seeing the enemy, I attempted to shoot through it. Not a single round hit the enemy and the glass seemed to have acted like invisible wall. This is the same problem with the parked cars. 

The damage through the unarmored doors of Ural and 5 Ton truck is abysmal. Real life bullets will go through at least 3 of those doors, if those trucks was parked side by side to each other with ease. 

Why the hell 30mm barely does any damage through the flimsy fence walls? Why AT and Fragmentation rockets, and other fragmentation ordinance cannot penetrate ANYTHING, while in games like Rising Storm, Vietnam that is not the problem?

Why AK and M4 rounds barely penetrating non reinforced walls of apartments, when real life rounds easily cheese that types of material? In real life, hiding in the appartment like the ones in Narva and Al Basrah is death sentence since anything past .223 round will easily punch holes through those walls. There is some damage, but is so miniscule that at time this is more of a hassle to spend 30 round magazine for just one person hiding behind the side of the window.

In other games that even more arcade than Squad, such as Rising Storm and Call of Duty, Modern Warfare penetration physics are more realistic and more fun to exploit for the team work.

4) Why can't developers introduce the same gun rest as with the bipod to all weapons, when near the sandbags and other objects? This is getting fking ridiculous shooting sandbags(and any other cover you duck behind) because your game character doesn't know how to prop the weapon onto a sandbag or other objects. All you need to do is give the non-bipod kits the ability to have at least some sense to able to use those giant glory holes in the sandbag walls, that seem to be more of the nuisance than being useful in the game. Same goes for infantry carried sandbags. Crouching behind them is basically asking to shoot the sandbags, instead of the enemy approaching behind them.

It is realistic that the barrel sits lower than that actual sight aperture, but in real life soldiers simply circumvent that by propping the weapons over the cover. THIS IS VERY EASY TO INTRODUCE WITH CURRENT BIPOD MECHANIC ALREADY IN THE GAME!

All you need to do is give the same ability, with drastically lower bonus than bi pods to other kits, so they could prop their rifles onto the cover or an obstacle, for more realistic shooting mechanics.

Edited by Caliell

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LOL it is so easy that you have probably already done it! :) it has been 10 hours since you posted! are you already on V2 of your mod?

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11 hours ago, Caliell said:

2) Inability to duck and do "Somali Style" fire of the said above machine guns: Battlefield 2 had it. Why can't Squad have it?

Huh? can i get a video of this?

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I think he's talking about blindfiring, I'd support that, it has its uses. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, LugNut said:

I think he's talking about blindfiring, I'd support that, it has its uses. 

 

 

That is what I meant and would be awesome to have in the game, but also in Battlefield 2 pressing and holding Z, while gunning on the tanks or Humvee,, you could of ducked inside the vehicle and fired blindly as well just like that with .50 and .51 cals.

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18 hours ago, suds said:

LOL it is so easy that you have probably already done it! :) it has been 10 hours since you posted! are you already on V2 of your mod?

If I was the lead designer or had any connection to the development team, I would of already added propping mechanic into the game since it is very easy to add with current bipod mechanics. 

 

All it needs to be is substantially lower rate of rise and recoil reduction bonus in comparison to bipods, for the simple reason that it would allow for the weapons to be propped over the cover.

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58 minutes ago, Caliell said:

If I was the lead designer or had any connection to the development team, I would of already added propping mechanic into the game since it is very easy to add with current bipod mechanics. 

 

All it needs to be is substantially lower rate of rise and recoil reduction bonus in comparison to bipods, for the simple reason that it would allow for the weapons to be propped over the cover.

So you´re asking for a job then…

 

Haha...just kidding mate.

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1 hour ago, Caliell said:

If I was the lead designer or had any connection to the development team, I would of already added propping mechanic into the game since it is very easy to add with current bipod mechanics. 

 

All it needs to be is substantially lower rate of rise and recoil reduction bonus in comparison to bipods, for the simple reason that it would allow for the weapons to be propped over the cover.

I'm pretty sure you could do this in SDK without being a member of the team. So please show us how easy it is :D.

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My experience as a somali or insurgent warlord is limited unlike it seems the OP who has much experience in real life both in weapons use.. and coding... so assume they are holding back US forces out the window with their HMG with one hand whilst coding the proper use of bipods and tripods with the other.   That being said there are a few animations that seem to get in the way of the end result (mentioned on other threads like loading and unloading RPG when all you want to do is drop the thing and get your weapon out)... but could those with experience as Somali or insurgent warlords in the field please tell me how you would know a round is already chambered if you do not check?  would you get the silent click of death?  

 

A much used cowardly action by many a somali pirate and insurgent is to hide and fire over things blindly, or indeed from videos to stand in the open firing wildly above their heads whilst point the weapon in the general direction of the enemy, usually because the enemy is so far away they cant see them, this should def be added to provide a touch of cowardly realism to the game.

 

 

Toyota have designed a great truck specifically for the insurgent market, combining the comfort of a family vehicle where if she was allowed to drive one of your wives could easily fit the 12 kids and 4 goats in the back to visit grandad  with the rugged out door off road performance needed for the weekend when you and your mates just want to mount the HMG in the back and head off into the hills for a spot of infidel hunting.   The one fault I have found with the Toyota however is the lack of passenger protection via faulty seatbelts where in the event a high calibre bullet does penetrate I find myself thrown completely  from the doors or windscreen.   In writing to Toyota they said that they had written to all owners for a recall of those vehicles but have been unable to find many of the owners.

 

on a more serious note the weapon collision behind cover is not great something there are dedicated threads for, its a big gripe of mine too, every object seems to be at the perfect height where when you kneel you cant fire over it so need to stand, or when you stand at windows you hit the frame ... weapon resting would be a big plus...

 

 

Edited by embecmom

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1 hour ago, Romby said:

I'm pretty sure you could do this in SDK without being a member of the team. So please show us how easy it is :D.

As I said if I could and was part of the team I would of made it the priority since it does affect gameplay and can be addressed with relatively simple tweak.

OR at least provide Insurgency esque fix. - When the character is not ADSing, they are posturing down i.e. hunching when in crouch. When in ADS mode, they raise their weapon above the obstacles such as sandbags or crates by posturing up. However that still will not address the awkward usage of the sandbag walls with the windows in them.

Edited by Caliell

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From memory the reason why every weapon doesn't rest like a bipod is because of performance. When you hit the button to deploy your bipod the server has to check whether or not you're able to in order to stop cheating. This isn't really an issue when you've got 10 dudes with bipods trying to deploy but when the full server is trying it can be taxing. That doesn't meant we'll never get it but the devs need to finish adding features to the game before focusing on optimising.

 

Your suggestions seem reasonable overall but as with everything in software development they're not as easy to implement as you might think.

 

I've seen developers comment about having ducking in vehicle turrets be something they want and with the upcoming V12 vehicle system changes that could be coming sometime after V12. The current issue with both ducking in turrets and even the HMG animation always cycling on enter is because the current vehicle system is still very basic for turrets and they don't have the depth of infantry weapon mechanics.

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10 minutes ago, Stom said:

From memory the reason why every weapon doesn't rest like a bipod is because of performance. When you hit the button to deploy your bipod the server has to check whether or not you're able to in order to stop cheating. This isn't really an issue when you've got 10 dudes with bipods trying to deploy but when the full server is trying it can be taxing. That doesn't meant we'll never get it but the devs need to finish adding features to the game before focusing on optimising.

 

Your suggestions seem reasonable overall but as with everything in software development they're not as easy to implement as you might think.

 

I've seen developers comment about having ducking in vehicle turrets be something they want and with the upcoming V12 vehicle system changes that could be coming sometime after V12. The current issue with both ducking in turrets and even the HMG animation always cycling on enter is because the current vehicle system is still very basic for turrets and they don't have the depth of infantry weapon mechanics.

At least they could give the temporary fix I mentioned above in the Edit "Insurgency Esque" type of aiming down the sights and crouching. As in when you are crouching behind the cover the size of the sandbags or wooden crates, your character hunches behind the cover. When aiming down the sights, your character in Insurgency "Postures Up" above the cover, without even resting or propping the weapon. While this is not  a real fix and the problem with the sandbag wall windows will still remain, that will provide some better solution.

 

Also I find it strange that Rising storm/Red Orchestra 2 with similar (could argue even worse) graphics does not have the problem you mentioned above.

Also another option Rising Storm Esque. - Near props such as sandbags and crates the icon in the hud appear showing that the weapon Is rested onto the prop.

Edited by Caliell

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6 minutes ago, Caliell said:

At least they could give the temporary fix I mentioned above in the Edit "Insurgency Esque" type of aiming down the sights and crouching. As in when you are crouching behind the cover the size of the sandbags or wooden crates, your character hunches behind the cover. When aiming down the sights, your character in Insurgency "Postures Up" above the cover, without even resting or propping the weapon. While this is not  a real fix and the problem with the sandbag wall windows will still remain, that will provide some better solution.

 

Also I find it strange that Rising storm/Red Orchestra 2 with similar graphics does not have the problem you mentioned above.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible by any means. We're just on the first iteration of the bipod system and it hasn't been expanded yet since other features that will add more depth to the overall game like component damage on vehicles or helicopters are being worked on.

 

Creating the Insurgency style aiming would also be good but again it's not a temporary fix given the amount of programming around detecting when and where to move along with the animation work to ensure the characters move properly.


The reasons RO/RS already has these systems are since they have been out for much longer and are both on UE3 rather than UE4 which has less optimisation issues given its age. UE4 is a hell of an engine but is having a lot of teething issues that Squad has to work with unfortunately.

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One of the dilemmas I noticed that "Insurgency esque" fix is technically in the game but it does not work, at least when in idle ADS position. Have you noticed, when crouching and ADS, your character does what it should be doing akin to Insurgency character? It postures up into the hunter's position. Bent forward, bent knees, weapon aimed. For some reason when no longer movie, your character in squad, even in ADS mode gets lower, which should be separate animation. 

 

Why simply not capitalize on that and implement the same posture up when the character goes into ADS mode to the level of sandbag windows?

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1.In a real life you would not be a noob and think if you got on the 50.cal gun that it has a bullet in the chamber i would always do that like in game its better to be sure and chamer it yourself then think you have a bullet inside while maybe you do not.

I do agree its a little stupid when you switched seets in a vhic and you switch back you reload it again but we can live with it.

 

2.I do not know what Somali style fire is so i will not comment on that one.

 

3. Oooo come on you do not think for real that when you shoot thru a car or a truck or two truck that the bullet hitting the door and penetrating it that it will still have str8 trajectory it would loose the balance and start to tuble and all.

With AKM i was able to kill a lot of guys thru a wooden fence i do not see any problems with that at the moment.And 50.cal guns go easily even thru some walls even in Al Basrah i got killed many times becouse of that.

 

4. On this one i agreewith you 100% it should be implemented.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bahrein said:

1.In a real life you would not be a noob and think if you got on the 50.cal gun that it has a bullet in the chamber i would always do that like in game its better to be sure and chamer it yourself then think you have a bullet inside while maybe you do not.

I do agree its a little stupid when you switched seets in a vhic and you switch back you reload it again but we can live with it.

 

2.I do not know what Somali style fire is so i will not comment on that one.

 

3. Oooo come on you do not think for real that when you shoot thru a car or a truck or two truck that the bullet hitting the door and penetrating it that it will still have str8 trajectory it would loose the balance and start to tuble and all.

With AKM i was able to kill a lot of guys thru a wooden fence i do not see any problems with that at the moment.And 50.cal guns go easily even thru some walls even in Al Basrah i got killed many times becouse of that.

 

4. On this one i agreewith you 100% it should be implemented.

 

 

1. You literally pointed out the problem I wrote about. Just to mention on the side, I spent 3 years with .50 cal in the army and even today I could take it apart with the blind fold and even set headspace and timing. Machine gunner that does not remember if he/she chambered is either Alzheimer's patient or never received the training on the heavy machine gun (highly doubtful, since in my unit even cooks had to qualify on .50 cal gunnery). I get the point of chambering when first getting into gunners position, but it is simply asinine needlessly pulling charging handle every time you get off and get back into it. Yes, it is annoying during firefights, especially with the turret seem to be always facing some other way on its own once you leave it.             

2. "Somali Style" describes blind fire type of shooting, highly prevalent with insurgents and Arab armies, where they would stuck automatic weapons over the cover without the aim and hold that trigger till black. However, it also applies to heavy machine guns, where you should be able to duck into the turret well, will holding the trigger down. In real life, those gunner baskets in the Squad though are also usually reinforced by extra panels with steel plates, with bullet proof glass on three sides.          

3. My gripe isn't with "straight through penetration deviation", (even though there is no substantial deviation, especially with NATO .308 since those doors are so flimsy, you could bend some of them with the good kick. I am not even talking about shitty unarmored technical doors) but the fact that the damage through such doors at times is laughable. Are you telling me that 25mm High explosive cannon, cannot penetrate flimsy fence walls, or RPG 7 cannot penetrate and kill someone behind aluminum fence or flat board wall? Or for the fact that you have to cheese unarmored vehicle compartment before getting any visible results (excluding passengers sitting in the open cargo compartment), or  AP 25mm and 30 mm are not one shot kills through walls? The ultimate icing in the cake, have you tried to shoot someone through the glass window in the game, only for it to act as bulletproof invisible wall? Try that with any parked Lada/Ghiguli in game or for that fact any glass window in the building. The ballistics deviation part is agreeable on and I had killed players in Al Basrah by cheesing apparent walls on the lips of the windows, but it seems that the damage was miniscule. It seemed like it took me 30 round magazine. Furthermore AT rockets don't seem to have penetration mechanics at all. - Anyone hiding behind picket fence, hugging it and being shot with any explosives seems to be immune. Damage for 25mm and 30mm AP seems to be lowered as well, at least by more than half and HE rounds don't even seem to be able to penetrate anything. If such large round was shot through the wall with someone hiding inside, the spall and debris on the other side would of created literal shotgun with pieces of the house towards unfortunate victim, not to mention list of other problems.

Edited by Caliell

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The picket fence is part of the British Airforce standard defensive lineup

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6496188/raf-jets-protected-by-5ft-picket-fence/

 

Perhaps the impressive ballistics protection is a little known fact protected by the many millions of homeowners who erect (gigiddy) them?

 

These guys are doing it wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slat_armor

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On 9/14/2018 at 2:30 PM, Caliell said:

1. You literally pointed out the problem I wrote about. Just to mention on the side, I spent 3 years with .50 cal in the army and even today I could take it apart with the blind fold and even set headspace and timing. Machine gunner that does not remember if he/she chambered is either Alzheimer's patient or never received the training on the heavy machine gun (highly doubtful, since in my unit even cooks had to qualify on .50 cal gunnery). I get the point of chambering when first getting into gunners position, but it is simply asinine needlessly pulling charging handle every time you get off and get back into it. Yes, it is annoying during firefights, especially with the turret seem to be always facing some other way on its own once you leave it.             

2. "Somali Style" describes blind fire type of shooting, highly prevalent with insurgents and Arab armies, where they would stuck automatic weapons over the cover without the aim and hold that trigger till black. However, it also applies to heavy machine guns, where you should be able to duck into the turret well, will holding the trigger down. In real life, those gunner baskets in the Squad though are also usually reinforced by extra panels with steel plates, with bullet proof glass on three sides.          

3. My gripe isn't with "straight through penetration deviation", (even though there is no substantial deviation, especially with NATO .308 since those doors are so flimsy, you could bend some of them with the good kick. I am not even talking about shitty unarmored technical doors) but the fact that the damage through such doors at times is laughable. Are you telling me that 25mm High explosive cannon, cannot penetrate flimsy fence walls, or RPG 7 cannot penetrate and kill someone behind aluminum fence or flat board wall? Or for the fact that you have to cheese unarmored vehicle compartment before getting any visible results (excluding passengers sitting in the open cargo compartment), or  AP 25mm and 30 mm are not one shot kills through walls? The ultimate icing in the cake, have you tried to shoot someone through the glass window in the game, only for it to act as bulletproof invisible wall? Try that with any parked Lada/Ghiguli in game or for that fact any glass window in the building. The ballistics deviation part is agreeable on and I had killed players in Al Basrah by cheesing apparent walls on the lips of the windows, but it seems that the damage was miniscule. It seemed like it took me 30 round magazine. Furthermore AT rockets don't seem to have penetration mechanics at all. - Anyone hiding behind picket fence, hugging it and being shot with any explosives seems to be immune. Damage for 25mm and 30mm AP seems to be lowered as well, at least by more than half and HE rounds don't even seem to be able to penetrate anything. If such large round was shot through the wall with someone hiding inside, the spall and debris on the other side would of created literal shotgun with pieces of the house towards unfortunate victim, not to mention list of other problems.

I told you i agree with the 50cal if you are switching sits and got back on the gun to chamber a raund again is not nessesery i agree with you.My point was that if someone other then you was sitting there and left and you got in on the 50cal that i would reload it again as well.That was my point.

 

I understand now about Somali style :-) thanks i call it suppression ;-)

 

And with penetration i am sure it will be dealth with more in the times to come.And i am with you on that one as well.

 

 

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1 - Completely agree, this is bullshit, and it's one of those things they added as an intentional inconvenience, like extremely slow animations in project reality, to make it more "realistic", when instead, they just made it more annoying. 

2 - Agree with this too, in battlefield 2 (and PR), you could press CTRL and dive down behind cover while still shooting the machine gun, would be very useful.

3 - Agree, penetration of small arms has to be enhanced greatly.

4 - Completely and fully agree, this should also apply to walls, i suppose in a similar way that it works in Far Cry and Battlefield , press right click on the wall corner and your guy will gradually pop up. This has way more uses in a game like Squad

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5 hours ago, MilosV said:

2 - Agree with this too, in battlefield 2 (and PR), you could press CTRL and dive down behind cover while still shooting the machine gun, would be very useful.

I´m pretty sure the OP didnt mean that.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

I´m pretty sure the OP didnt mean that.

 

 

Actually it was that, except in Battlefield 2 as I remember it was Z key (same for prone) to hold down to dive inside the tank. In either case, Squad should of already had that feature since from what I heard the engine is borrowed of Battlefield 2 and PR.

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9 hours ago, Caliell said:

Actually it was that, except in Battlefield 2 as I remember it was Z key (same for prone) to hold down to dive inside the tank. 

 

18 hours ago, MilosV said:

2 - Agree with this too, in battlefield 2 (and PR), you could press CTRL and dive down behind cover while still shooting the machine gun, would be very useful.

So you guys want the game to allow you to sprint, and suddenly when you run into enemy, jump into the prone stance while you fire, accuratelly I guess, a weapon such as m249 that might be like 8-9kg? So you will actually be firing while you sprint, then while you are in mid air, and finally from the prone position, non stop¿?

 

Im asking just to make  sure I understand what you want.

 

 

9 hours ago, Caliell said:

Squad should of already had that feature since from what I heard the engine is borrowed of Battlefield 2 and PR.

No. It´s not the same engine that PR.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

I´m pretty sure the OP didnt mean that.

 

 

I dont think so either but they actually removed diving from the game because it was being exploited as a means to always be diving and shooting at same time.  The slowed down the animation, Id like to see going prone sped up a little but the ability to dive and shoot at same time is something that should never come back.

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2 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

 

So you guys want the game to allow you to sprint, and suddenly when you run into enemy, jump into the prone stance while you fire, accuratelly I guess, a weapon such as m249 that might be like 8-9kg? So you will actually be firing while you sprint, then while you are in mid air, and finally from the prone position, non stop¿?

 

Im asking just to make  sure I understand what you want.

 

 

No. It´s not the same engine that PR.

 

 

I am not talking about playing as infantry, but as gunner, inside the vehicle. You completely misunderstood what I am talking about. This is not about infantry. This is about Gunner's position, specifically in the gunner's basket like MRAP or Humvee (no longer in the game) and the future Loader's position of M1A2.

2 hours ago, embecmom said:

I dont think so either but they actually removed diving from the game because it was being exploited as a means to always be diving and shooting at same time.  The slowed down the animation, Id like to see going prone sped up a little but the ability to dive and shoot at same time is something that should never come back.

The post was about gunner's position and not infantry. In Battlefield 2, player could duck inside the vehicles, such as Humvee turret basket with the press of the key.

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6 minutes ago, Caliell said:

I am not talking about playing as infantry, but as gunner, inside the vehicle. You completely misunderstood what I am talking about. This is not about infantry. This is about Gunner's position, specifically in the gunner's basket like MRAP or Humvee (no longer in the game) and the future Loader's position of M1A2.

The post was about gunner's position and not infantry. In Battlefield 2, player could duck inside the vehicles, such as Humvee turret basket with the press of the key.

yes thought that.. whilst not perfect you can tilt the gun up obviously which sort of hides the gunner.. but agree ducking down would be good ...

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