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Noobgamer

Regarding suppression and optic machineguns.

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Posted (edited)

At present, most maps are dominately by optic machinegunner, that anything else such as sharpshooter or grenadier is useless in comparison when it comes to murdering enemy infantry. 

This is what you can already achieve with US/UK optic machineguns, adding suppression would only make things worse.

https://ibb.co/gqpcLp

 

Suggestions: Give everybody else more grenades, reduce accuracy for US/UK machineguns and disallow building hard cover in buildings(so that non-machinegunners attacking the zone can actually be more effective).

Also, RU machinegunes are total craps, when will they get proper optics?

 

Also an idea for suppression, why not make it that players getting suppressed would suffer debuffs to their stamina recovery and aimming focus, so that they can still fight back, but less effectively.

 

UPDATE: 

https://ibb.co/gxVLCe

This round just happened, me and another optic machinegunner on my squad did a total of 120 kills accounting for 1/4 of the total kills by our entire 39-men team, which earned us a close victory of 18 tickets despite the fact that enemy was able to hold 2 more zones almost the entire game. As I said, it is only A MATTER OF TIME before more start to become as good as we few, and completely break the game for everybody else. I don't know how much more examples you guys need to recognize that optic machinegunners are OP as FK(again excluding RU ones cause they suck!).

(Before anyone start claiming that it happened only because the other team suck, I would like to mention that the other side was filled with members from the clan that hosted the OWLS server.)

 

Edited by Noobgamer

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Lol yea pretty much, though it looks like the enemy team was simply throwing infantry at you. Looks like it was a winning strategy as your team couldn't capitalize on your covering fire :P

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, pinko said:

Lol yea pretty much, though it looks like the enemy team was simply throwing infantry at you. Looks like it was a winning strategy as your team couldn't capitalize on your covering fire :P

Well considering the ticket limit, if your team is winning, there's almost no chance for you to score like that. Normally you get around 30 kills in a winning game under similar circumstances.

Edited by Noobgamer

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It's hard to say definitively what effect suppression will have with optic MGs until it's out but I think the logic is that MGs fire tracers so you'll be able to put suppressive fire on them to counter their accuracy.

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I have to disagree about MGs being op. Firing in full auto while deployed, like on a window sill or wall, makes you exposed and draws lots of attention to your position. Also, on most maps the action is concentrated in areas with poor lines of sight. I actually find the scoped rifleman and even dmr more effective than the mg.

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Unless i get rattled in the original burst, an enemy machinegunner is easily dealt with. Too loud, too obvious. Alot harder to find a rifleman firing at you.

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1 hour ago, oTec said:

Unless i get rattled in the original burst, an enemy machinegunner is easily dealt with. Too loud, too obvious. Alot harder to find a rifleman firing at you.

Right?

 

If you're having trouble getting killed by LMGs constantly, you might just be the really obvious guy sprinting way ahead of of everybody who always gets spotted first. Otherwise the they still feel underpowered considering you need to find a really good place to set up with lots of cover and the bipods are kinda wonky, the only thing they really have going for them is a better ammo reserve. Now compare that to a scoped rifleman with pretty much the same zoom, less tracers and being easier to shoot while on the move. The suppression is actually a balancing change that's (partially) supposed to help poor machinegunners stay alive a bit longer. I'm not trying to diminish the OP's skill level here, but if you go 81/7 as infantry, the enemy team is clearly feeding you kills. There's just no way to get that amount of kills if the teams are balanced and people know what they're doing.

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7 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

I'm not trying to diminish the OP's skill level here, but if you go 81/7 as infantry, the enemy team is clearly feeding you kills. There's just no way to get that amount of kills if the teams are balanced and people know what they're doing.

 

No kidding. Those are free weekend stats where a mg camps a FOB and the lemmings pour out. 

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I can't help but feel you guys are using the mgs wrong. Almost every time I use them, the results are really good.

 

You can't expose yourself, you have to lock down a lane usually.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

Right?

 

If you're having trouble getting killed by LMGs constantly, you might just be the really obvious guy sprinting way ahead of of everybody who always gets spotted first. Otherwise the they still feel underpowered considering you need to find a really good place to set up with lots of cover and the bipods are kinda wonky, the only thing they really have going for them is a better ammo reserve. Now compare that to a scoped rifleman with pretty much the same zoom, less tracers and being easier to shoot while on the move. The suppression is actually a balancing change that's (partially) supposed to help poor machinegunners stay alive a bit longer. I'm not trying to diminish the OP's skill level here, but if you go 81/7 as infantry, the enemy team is clearly feeding you kills. There's just no way to get that amount of kills if the teams are balanced and people know what they're doing.

Except that my team actually lost that game by almost 200 tickets, and both teams have veteran players including experienced squad leaders. They are certain maps that once enemy optic mahinegunners get to certain key positions, massive loss of ticket or area control would be inevitable to occur. 

 

Fortunately for the servers I regularly play on, my experience has often been that I was literally the only one who knows how to use those optic machineguns in my faction, that normally having optic machineguns on certain maps would allow me to account for at least 10% of the total kills achieved by my team(around a median of 25 kills, anything less I consider that round a failure for me), which means that once people start learning how to play the game correctly, we would see more games broken by machinegunners(again discounting RU ones cause they suck).

 

FYI, that happened this week, hence not a free weekend, and I've already done something like that for like 5 times now. 

Edited by Noobgamer

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A machine gunner in any position can still be taken out by flanking, explosives, vehicles, even mortars. Hell, any one infantryman can completely gimp a machine gunner by throwing a couple of good smokes. Just because people don't communicate and blindly  continue running into firing lanes covered by MG's doesn't mean the game is dominated by them. Neither does having "like 5 really good games" with an MG mean anything of the sort. People don't play badly only during free weekends.

 

Now, you might well be the best optics MG player in Squad, I'm not rejecting that possibility here, but there are a multitude of other possible explainations for why you're able to achieve such extraordinary K/D's, and I'm sorry but the most probable one is still that the enemy team simply sucked. That does not reflect badly on you in any way of course, but it's also not suitable as a basis on which you could propose changes to gameplay. Anyway, there's no point in trying to figure out problems with the suppression before we've seen it. Maybe the devs will knock it out of the park, it will be the best suppression we've ever seen in an online FPS and everybody will agree it's the most balanced it's ever been. If not, everything is subject to change. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and give the suppression a chance before we start trying to fix it.

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28 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves and give the suppression a chance before we start trying to fix it.

In my opinion suppression is a horrible idea that shouldn't be given any chance whatsoever. Just one of those features that are trending in realistic games right now, so everyone has to implement it in some way.

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Being "locked down" by an AR actually happen very rarely to me. 

Since there is no suppression, the guy quickly gets taken out by a scoped RM. 

Or I just run away and make an other approach. 

 

On the few occasions when I see this, it is mostly when I play insurgents due the lack of scopes in the team, to counter scoped AR and MMG. 

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4 hours ago, Axel said:

Being "locked down" by an AR actually happen very rarely to me. 

Since there is no suppression, the guy quickly gets taken out by a scoped RM. 

Or I just run away and make an other approach. 

 

On the few occasions when I see this, it is mostly when I play insurgents due the lack of scopes in the team, to counter scoped AR and MMG. 

Take a look at the update I just made, you are fortunate that only a handful of players actually know how to play it. 

13 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

A machine gunner in any position can still be taken out by flanking, explosives, vehicles, even mortars. Hell, any one infantryman can completely gimp a machine gunner by throwing a couple of good smokes. Just because people don't communicate and blindly  continue running into firing lanes covered by MG's doesn't mean the game is dominated by them. Neither does having "like 5 really good games" with an MG mean anything of the sort. People don't play badly only during free weekends.

 

Now, you might well be the best optics MG player in Squad, I'm not rejecting that possibility here, but there are a multitude of other possible explainations for why you're able to achieve such extraordinary K/D's, and I'm sorry but the most probable one is still that the enemy team simply sucked. That does not reflect badly on you in any way of course, but it's also not suitable as a basis on which you could propose changes to gameplay. Anyway, there's no point in trying to figure out problems with the suppression before we've seen it. Maybe the devs will knock it out of the park, it will be the best suppression we've ever seen in an online FPS and everybody will agree it's the most balanced it's ever been. If not, everything is subject to change. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and give the suppression a chance before we start trying to fix it.

Pls see the update I just made regarding a recent game. And as I mentioned, only a matter of time before more players start to learn the rope. 

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10 minutes ago, Noobgamer said:

Take a look at the update I just made, you are fortunate that only a handful of players actually know how to play it. 

Pls see the update I just made regarding a recent game. And as I mentioned, only a matter of time before more players start to learn the rope. 

I'd like to see a recording of one of your good games, we can argue back and forth but there's little we can prove or disprove by posting screenshots here. I'll keep following the thread in case you'd like to provide us with one.

 

I've also noticed both of the screenshots come from the same server, have you tried playing on a different one with the same result?

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Posted (edited)

 

 

20 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

I'd like to see a recording of one of your good games, we can argue back and forth but there's little we can prove or disprove by posting screenshots here. I'll keep following the thread in case you'd like to provide us with one.

You might have to consult OWLS server administrators, I simply dont do recording myself, the current framerate is often below 40 on some maps with a full server, unless you know a way to do this without performance penalties. Here is a more ancient one though, posted it in another thread, just to prove that it is not an one-time event. Again, games with above 40 kills for me with optic machineguns are not as rare as you would think.

 

https://ibb.co/hrdYfd

Edited by Noobgamer

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Yeah I'm with @MultiSquid on this one. I think you're just good with the kit and were able to find those sweet spots where opportunities just presented themselves a lot more. 

 

With the new suppression coming, I'm sure we'll see a shift in the right direction where it will be much easier to suppress MG fire. 

 

Lastly, here's 2 examples of the importance of finding that sweet sweet spot ;) 

Spoiler

 

And another shameless camping:

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, CptDirty said:

Yeah I'm with @MultiSquid on this one. I think you're just good with the kit and were able to find those sweet spots where opportunities just presented themselves a lot more. 

 

With the new suppression coming, I'm sure we'll see a shift in the right direction where it will be much easier to suppress MG fire. 

 

Lastly, here's 2 examples of the importance of finding that sweet sweet spot ;) 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And another shameless camping:

 

 

 

I'm with Noobgamer on this one. Of course it's a matter of finding the sweet spots, it's called situational awareness, and it permeates this entire game.

 

The mgs are in a good spot balance-wise.

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5 hours ago, Vegetal said:

I'm with Noobgamer on this one. 

 

The mgs are in a good spot balance-wise.

Then perhaps you didn't read his posts thoroughly. Right in the OP he's claiming that the MGs are dominating the game and calling for a nerf. 

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12 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

Then perhaps you didn't read his posts thoroughly. Right in the OP he's claiming that the MGs are dominating the game and calling for a nerf. 

Well, they actually are dominating. I just don't think they need nerfing, they are the king of infantry weapons after all.

 

And I agree with him that the marksman is a bit weak perhaps, now the GL I think should be situational, as it kinda is right now.

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I haven’t had an issue with MGs dominating a match yet.  You claim you were in a match with experienced players and squad leaders racking up 120 kills between two gunners.  I say you were farming kills off dingleberries who aren’t aware of all the tools and options available to them.

 

The only problem I’ve had with HMG squaddies is refusing to give the kit up when asked.

 

The only real problem with the game, currently, is the way players come in without any sense of teamwork and cooperation and gravitate towards optic-equipped kits that they fail to employ correctly because they’re focused entirely on themselves and get killed playing without support from the rest of the squad.

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1 hour ago, Noobtastic said:

I haven’t had an issue with MGs dominating a match yet.  You claim you were in a match with experienced players and squad leaders racking up 120 kills between two gunners.  I say you were farming kills off dingleberries who aren’t aware of all the tools and options available to them.

 

The only problem I’ve had with HMG squaddies is refusing to give the kit up when asked.

 

The only real problem with the game, currently, is the way players come in without any sense of teamwork and cooperation and gravitate towards optic-equipped kits that they fail to employ correctly because they’re focused entirely on themselves and get killed playing without support from the rest of the squad.

As I've proven with screenshot evidence, I've already done it a couple of times. If you really must insist that they are the results of "dingleberries farming", which suggests that anyone could have done it, maybe you should prove it with you own games first. Failing to do that, your argument will not stand.

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Posted (edited)
On 2018-08-16 at 5:54 AM, Noobgamer said:

At present, most maps are dominately by optic machinegunner, that anything else such as sharpshooter or grenadier is useless in comparison when it comes to murdering enemy infantry. 

This is what you can already achieve with US/UK optic machineguns, adding suppression would only make things worse.

https://ibb.co/gqpcLp

 

Suggestions: Give everybody else more grenades, reduce accuracy for US/UK machineguns and disallow building hard cover in buildings(so that non-machinegunners attacking the zone can actually be more effective).

Also, RU machinegunes are total craps, when will they get proper optics?

 

Also an idea for suppression, why not make it that players getting suppressed would suffer debuffs to their stamina recovery and aimming focus, so that they can still fight back, but less effectively.

 

UPDATE: 

https://ibb.co/gxVLCe

This round just happened, me and another optic machinegunner on my squad did a total of 120 kills accounting for 1/4 of the total kills by our entire 39-men team, which earned us a close victory of 18 tickets despite the fact that enemy was able to hold 2 more zones almost the entire game. As I said, it is only A MATTER OF TIME before more start to become as good as we few, and completely break the game for everybody else. I don't know how much more examples you guys need to recognize that optic machinegunners are OP as FK(again excluding RU ones cause they suck!).

(Before anyone start claiming that it happened only because the other team suck, I would like to mention that the other side was filled with members from the clan that hosted the OWLS server.)

 

Totally disagree. Before optics heavy MG were utterly useless. Only a safe way to get sniped. Now they are useful long range at least. Short range not so much. As with all weapons - if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Move around flank. Bring in the guns. Use a mortar strike on the MGs. I am totally against this Quake Arena style game where infantry always has the artificial upper hand because of all the migrated Counterstrike players complaining all the time.

 

Also most maps are not dominated by heavy MGs. Only long range maps like Kohat and such. Definitely not Sumari. Play other maps if you don't like it. 

 

On the other hand, and this is important - artillery has to be much more effective in order to be able to counter fixed emplacement. Current mortars are basically useless against everything. What they really should do here is give us heavy mortars.

 

 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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On 2018-08-16 at 5:33 PM, pinko said:

Lol yea pretty much, though it looks like the enemy team was simply throwing infantry at you. Looks like it was a winning strategy as your team couldn't capitalize on your covering fire :P

Exactly. Other team didn't know how to flank and for that they should be punished hard. And that they were. 

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Posted (edited)
On 2018-08-17 at 10:55 PM, Vegetal said:

In my opinion suppression is a horrible idea that shouldn't be given any chance whatsoever. Just one of those features that are trending in realistic games right now, so everyone has to implement it in some way.

I seriously doubt that these devs are doing hype stuff like that. They are basically developing the game they would like to play for themselves because everyone else is doing counterstrike hype games. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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