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SQUAD - The more, the worse

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Posted (edited)

What I did like way back in the Joint Operations were the few "official" servers many times there were like 2 good clans in both sides and formed as a backbone for the whole game. Of course there were plenty of this team stacking unfortunately happening, but the disabled team switching in many servers were a good prevention for such. 

 

Alas US servers were always a noob fests. 

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

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No rally points in Post Scriptum made me extremely sad and disappointed to the point I've refunded the game. Spawning a whole team on trucks really sucks imo.

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This is the case for all co-op games.
The bigger the squad, the harder it is to coordinate well

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Posted (edited)

I was pretty disappointed with PS, I was hoping for a WW2 skinned Squad but too much is different IMO (obviously that was intentional, just not what I was looking for), Squad has lots of development time behind it so IMO is a very good game, a simple WW2 reskin would have been very cool.

 

PS just feels weird and slow even with exact same PC, graphics, FOV and sensitivity settings, even with similar iron sight weapons tested back to back in each game?!

 

For those reasons I went back to Squad very quickly, problem is that because of PS the current the Squad population is now dwindling. I usually get up around 0600-0700 (GMT) most days (when I'm not working) and try to get an hour or two on Squad, there always used to be a few EU servers starting to populate at around that time but now it's dead, it's now usually about 0900 before any are even slightly populated. I only like to play on a server if I have a ping under 70ms (ish) so the current lack of populated EU servers in the AM is a bit of a problem for me.

 

I do wonder if PS should have just been an add-on DLC for Squad, same launcher, same game, just different maps, weapons, vehicles and visuals. There isn't even an official dedicated PS forum anywhere I believe? Without meaning to offend anyone, PS feels (to me) more like an experiment rather than a serious endeavor, even in Squads infant days there was a lot of hype around it backed up by the official forum.

 

Sadly I missed the refund period of PS.

Edited by RipGroove

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3 hours ago, RipGroove said:

For those reasons I went back to Squad very quickly, problem is that because of PS the current the Squad population is now dwindling. I usually get up around 0600-0700 (GMT) most days (when I'm not working) and try to get an hour or two on Squad, there always used to be a few EU servers starting to populate at around that time but now it's dead, it's now usually about 0900 before any are even slightly populated. I only like to play on a server if I have a ping under 70ms (ish) so the current lack of populated EU servers in the AM is a bit of a problem for me.

I dont have this experience at all. Afternoon/evening in Europe Squad is around 1500-2000 players. RIP, Mumblerines, SR, BB and many of the <3 Germany and French Servers are pretty much always full. Europe is a very active region for Squad.

 

I also think that pretty much all Squad players have stopped playing PS (none of my steamfriends still play PS).

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RipGroove said:

For those reasons I went back to Squad very quickly, problem is that because of PS the current the Squad population is now dwindling. I usually get up around 0600-0700 (GMT) most days (when I'm not working) and try to get an hour or two on Squad, there always used to be a few EU servers starting to populate at around that time but now it's dead, it's now usually about 0900 before any are even slightly populated. I only like to play on a server if I have a ping under 70ms (ish) so the current lack of populated EU servers in the AM is a bit of a problem for me.

I play the most time on the We ♥ Squad Germany Servers.

At 0900-1100 GMT the first server is nearly full of players everday.
On the weekends around 0600-0800 GMT and around 1000 GMT the second one is full

 

And of course the last weeks the server seeded faster because of the summer holidays in europe and now all servers will start a little bit slower again. 

Edited by Mjölnir Husky

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14 minutes ago, Romby said:

I dont have this experience at all. Afternoon/evening in Europe Squad is around 1500-2000 players. RIP, Mumblerines, SR, BB and many of the <3 Germany and French Servers are pretty much always full. Europe is a very active region for Squad.

 

I also think that pretty much all Squad players have stopped playing PS (none of my steamfriends still play PS).

And this is right too.

 

At evening / afternoon the most big clans EU servers are full of players.

 

And of 20 guys i know who buyed PS are only 4 still playing PS
Some friends (and me) just gave back the game.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mjölnir Husky said:

I play the most time on the We ♥ Squad Germany Servers.

At 0900-1100 GMT the first server is nearly full of players everday.
On the weekends around 0600-0800 GMT and around 1000 GMT the second one is full

 

And of course the last weeks the server seeded faster because of the summer holidays in europe and now all servers will start a little bit slower again. 

I play there a lot too but even those servers recently have taken much longer to populate. As said I usually like to get on between 0600-0700 and play until about 0900.

Edited by RipGroove

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There was a test server yesterday where they tested the new class which should change the respawn a bit and make up for the lack of rally points. This might cheer some folks up. I need to give that game a second chance. Maybe when this change is implemented, the hardcore gamers come back to it.

 

Quote

- Added new "Regroup Call" feature: SL can start a regroup call from their T menu which will allow them to become a temporary spawn point for 60 seconds. The SL must be near a radio (antenna icon in top left). The Regroup Call will become inactive if near enemies, the SL goes into an objective, or the SL dies.
- Added new Radioman class that unlocks at 6 section members. This soldier acts as a radio for Commander support and for SL Regroup calls



 

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The "quality" of play is very different and depending on the servers. There are server that have higher level of play and that also have active moderation. That means you get less disrupting people and some servers also put effort into trying to create more balanced rounds. 

 

The steamroll is something I have noticed a lot too and I think it is caused by the current meta which makes rushing at the start the default tactic. If it works you most likely won the round, if it failed you will most likely loose. 

The "quality" of play is very different and depending on the servers. There are server that have higher level of play and that also have active moderation. That means you get less disrupting people and some servers also put effort into trying to create more balanced rounds. 

 

The steamroll is something I have noticed a lot too and I think it is caused by the current meta which makes rushing at the start the default tactic. If it works you most likely won the round, if it failed you will most likely loose. I hope that planned systems like ammo persistence will improve this.

The "quality" of play is very different and depending on the servers. There are server that have higher level of play and that also have active moderation. That means you get less disrupting people and some servers also put effort into trying to create more balanced rounds. 

 

The steamroll is something I have noticed a lot too and I think it is caused by the current meta which makes rushing at the start the default tactic. If it works you most likely won the round, if it failed you will most likely loose. I hope that planned systems like ammo persistence will improve this.

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Clan stacking is one of the reasons I switched playing on specific servers a while ago, not that I dont like playing against clans, in gives a little extra incentive but when you have servers that have large clans or multi clan use then it can become a one sided affair.  

 

Many clan players individually are not better than most players in the server there seems to be this reasoning that because you are in a clan you must be a good player.   The biggest difference is communication and teamwork. Thats why I dont believe its anything to do with the current meta.  I have seen many more close games recently than I have in a while away from stacked servers.

 

I can tell you that it comes down to a few simple things:-

 

1) poor team communication between the SLs

2) Selfish use of vehicles 

3) Multiple locked small squads (not vehicles)

 

When these three things combine on a server you are guaranteed that its going one way and quick.  if there was one thing I would change today... is the locking squads, always felt that was a crap idea and it plays out in game so many times.   Lock vehicles by all means but not squads or make it a minimum no. and that no. is not 3.

 

I refunded PS for a good few reasons:-

 

MSPs without rallies or some other form of squad rally are horrible because any grunt can drive them and kill the game.

A single logistics unit for the whole team just kills the game if they dont want to setup habs and like to do their own thing

It was way more one sided than Squad had ever been, defenders are hampered a)cant build habs b) one logistics squad c) msps d) combined to provide even less communication than Squad.

 

As for servers I play on I think they are mainly European based so not sure if they suit:-

 

in order of preference and usually have active admins plus dont stack that much that I have seen.

 

Smoking Rifles

TLR The Last Rifles

508th

Guardians

BB Bloodbound

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by embecmom

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31 minutes ago, embecmom said:

Clan stacking is one of the reasons I switched playing on specific servers a while ago, not that I dont like playing against clans, in gives a little extra incentive but when you have servers that have large clans or multi clan use then it can become a one sided affair.  

 

Many clan players individually are not better than most players in the server there seems to be this reasoning that because you are in a clan you must be a good player.   The biggest difference is communication and teamwork. Thats why I dont believe its anything to do with the current meta.  I have seen many more close games recently than I have in a while.

 

I can tell you that it comes down to a few simple things:-

 

1) poor team communication between the SLs

2) Selfish use of vehicles 

3) Multiple locked small squads (not vehicles)

 

When these three things combine on a server you are guaranteed that its going one way and quick.  if there was one thing I would change today... is the locking squads, always felt that was a crap idea and it plays out in game so many times.   Lock vehicles by all means but not squads or make it a minimum no. and that no. is not 3.

 

I can wholeheartedly agree on your 3-point list. Especially point 2.

Throwing away btr's and strykers or even the heavier vehicles leads to a very quick loss of tickets wich demoralizes people and makes them accept that the game is already lost.

1 & 3 are a nuisance but can be overcome.

 

I'm also in a clan, whom participates in tournaments (not me) so they do tend to take preformance into account when they decide on accepting a new member. So if you play against a competitive oriented clan, there is a good chance that the individual players are better than the average squaddie because they've been recruited on a basis of skill (and other values like comms, game sense etc.).

 

It's annoying when we are playing and we got about 15 people in discord, to then start switching over people for the sake of balance.

Most often, we ask or the admin asks us to switch sides after a one-sided game.

Edited by oTec

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29 minutes ago, oTec said:

I can wholeheartedly agree on your 3-point list. Especially point 2.

Throwing away btr's and strykers or even the heavier vehicles leads to a very quick loss of tickets wich demoralizes people and makes them accept that the game is already lost.

1 & 3 are a nuisance but can be overcome.

 

I'm also in a clan, whom participates in tournaments (not me) so they do tend to take preformance into account when they decide on accepting a new member. So if you play against a competitive oriented clan, there is a good chance that the individual players are better than the average squaddie because they've been recruited on a basis of skill (and other values like comms, game sense etc.).

 

It's annoying when we are playing and we got about 15 people in discord, to then start switching over people for the sake of balance.

Most often, we ask or the admin asks us to switch sides after a one-sided game.

I used to be in a couple of clans for a while and played in the tournaments... big clans have a few very good players but on the whole are not any better than most individually, it comes down to when they group together and communicate so the 'better' squad player understands that and will be recruited which make the clans better game managers is what I mean.

Edited by embecmom

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And this i can also prove. Clan members doesnt play better than other ... if we think in FPS definition (run and gun). There are sharpshooters and plaers with reflexes and aim which dominate over most of clan members. Point is what can even best shooter make against pack of players who cover each other. Nothing. He can wound 8. But 9th will get him and clan members are disciplined to wait for medic (even from other squads). And thats the trick. When clan have some sharpshooter its just one or two in one squad. And they are ussually different players than others. So Squad build it around those guys. They need big support to get that great result. Provide that support request very good communication and cooperation. And thats it. Pubies when thay play all of them hunt kills. K/D is for them alpha omega. When clans play. Whole squad support those sharpshooters with good reflexes to keep them in game. If pubies get that point, thay will easily steamroll any clan. It need just cooperation, and change mind from K/D to teamwork. Easy like that. Isnt that point of Squad ? Yes it is so steamroll by clan is allowed its required its reason why people play togather. split them ? Ok Squad exit button confirm... bey we dont have to play. So if pubies cry that its not balanced, thay just dont get it and i personaly dont care and many clans also doesnt care, its pointless.

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8 hours ago, embecmom said:

Clan stacking is one of the reasons I switched playing on specific servers a while ago, not that I dont like playing against clans, in gives a little extra incentive but when you have servers that have large clans or multi clan use then it can become a one sided affair.  

 

Many clan players individually are not better than most players in the server there seems to be this reasoning that because you are in a clan you must be a good player.   The biggest difference is communication and teamwork. Thats why I dont believe its anything to do with the current meta.  I have seen many more close games recently than I have in a while away from stacked servers.

 

I can tell you that it comes down to a few simple things:-

 

1) poor team communication between the SLs

2) Selfish use of vehicles 

3) Multiple locked small squads (not vehicles)

 

When these three things combine on a server you are guaranteed that its going one way and quick.  if there was one thing I would change today... is the locking squads, always felt that was a crap idea and it plays out in game so many times.   Lock vehicles by all means but not squads or make it a minimum no. and that no. is not 3.

 

I refunded PS for a good few reasons:-

 

MSPs without rallies or some other form of squad rally are horrible because any grunt can drive them and kill the game.

A single logistics unit for the whole team just kills the game if they dont want to setup habs and like to do their own thing

It was way more one sided than Squad had ever been, defenders are hampered a)cant build habs b) one logistics squad c) msps d) combined to provide even less communication than Squad.

 

As for servers I play on I think they are mainly European based so not sure if they suit:-

 

in order of preference and usually have active admins plus dont stack that much that I have seen.

 

Smoking Rifles

TLR The Last Rifles

508th

Guardians

BB Bloodbound

 

 

 

 

 

 

I play in these exact servers very often too, they are great with the exception of [G] Guardians. IMO I found their admin very childish, for example at the end of a round they can be heard shouting things like "suck my ***" etc over and over again, and they can be very childish when leading a Squad also.

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22 hours ago, embecmom said:

I can tell you that it comes down to a few simple things:-

 

1) poor team communication between the SLs

2) Selfish use of vehicles 

3) Multiple locked small squads (not vehicles)

 

When these three things combine on a server you are guaranteed that its going one way and quick.  if there was one thing I would change today... is the locking squads, always felt that was a crap idea and it plays out in game so many times.   Lock vehicles by all means but not squads or make it a minimum no. and that no. is not 3.

 

 

Think this is a pretty good assessment.

 

Although individuals have a responsibility in terms of quality of play, it seems to me that effective squad leading actually is the most important factor for overall game quality, because it is the make or break of engagement and sets the tone for the levels of in-game conduct. I don't mean that this has to be milsim at all. I SL a lot and have some more serious games, others where it's just me being an idiot, but in the end that's partially down to how I judge a squad to be in terms of a character - and ultimately I always try to essentially play the right way and co-ordinate with other squads rather than just decide to do my own thing. I know almost immediately if a game is going to be decent or not simply by the number of, and manner in which, SLs are talking. If there is even one who simply doesn't talk at all, you know it's going to be an issue, and it's frustrating already. If there is another who is determined to be nowhere near anyone else, for no apparent or explained reason, or has decided the best thing they can do is superfob or mortar at random, then yeah. 'GG'...

 

And it's such a shame... because it does seem that it has become worse over the last couple of months. Even a little while ago, it was reliably the case that a team would have at least 3 full squads, and that they would, more or less, all talk. There might be some disagreement, there might be the odd waste of space SL - but it was reliably at least ok, maybe 70% of matches, even in public servers. Players seemed to be trying, at least, to do things the 'right' way.

 

Now, however, I regularly play in games where there are two full squads and then five or six 1-3 man squads, and it just means, far too often, that either people are:

 

  1. Being weirdly childish, doing only what they want (wasting armour, anyone? Point 2 is a huge factor in losses of games fairly often; think Basrah Warrior squads... Not all. Obviously they can be used extremely effectively by a good crew in co-ordination with others
  2. Being pointlessly cliquey for some reason that baffles me, because it can't actually add up to a better experience in many cases
  3. Simply unable to operate in a remotely effective way. We all know the meta often simply requires a weight of infantry defending and a weight attacking, in the most basic terms, and that is far more reliably possible when you simply have a few larger squads with perhaps one or two specialist smaller ones doing specialist things in support. Co-ordinating between 3 small squads to achieve something against the same number of enemy who can co-ordinate internal to a single or maybe two squads is far harder, and the probabilty that one or more are poor SLs, bad communicators, etc etc, is higher.

I fully understand that if people buy the game, they have some right to do whatever they want with it, but I also think that the community at large does want a certain experience and that reasonable people at least vaguely buy into that. I guess, then, that my original point stands. It is individuals who make up a community of players, both in game and in the wider sense for Squad, and they should take that into account if they want to SL. Individual players who want to lone wolf etc, well - that's up to them. But good SLs kick those who don't clearly don't bother in a squad, and good players seek out better SLs. I hope that a new version or similar will pick things up again, and that time will weed out those who ultimately bought the wrong game for the experience they want.

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12 minutes ago, Riflewizard said:

Squad leader is untenable with a 9-man squad cap. You have to micromanage so many rookies it's impossible to command that many.

Hopefully, with the advent of FireTeams in v12, it becomes less burdensome. 

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7 hours ago, PROTOCOL said:

Hopefully, with the advent of FireTeams in v12, it becomes less burdensome. 

you may end up with 18 small squads which might be worse if the secondary fire team leader gets to much control

8 hours ago, Riflewizard said:

Squad leader is untenable with a 9-man squad cap. You have to micromanage so many rookies it's impossible to command that many.

only those that put up with players not playing for the squad will have problems,  easiest way to resolve it is to remove the players from the squad so they dont have a kit ...90% of players I SL with will attempt to squad up and follow.

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1 hour ago, embecmom said:

you may end up with 18 small squads which might be worse if the secondary fire team leader gets to much control

I doubt it, as the Squad Leader determines how many FireTeams in his unit. So that's a bit of blind reach in re: that statement. 

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