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Right now the game doesn't really cause players to wait for a medic if only loosing 1 ticket. 

I was thinking maybe have so if you bleed out you loose 1 ticket but if you dont wait and respawn straight away you will loose more tickets lets say 3. just thinking of a way the players will play more tactical.   

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Posted (edited)

You'd be amazed how much medic revives matter. I've won games as close as 2 tickets to none.

Teamwide revives often range from 30-90 revives, most of the time around the 50 mark. That's 50 tickets saved by the medics alone.

Since the bleed of flags has been lowered, medic revives and vehicle deaths have grown to the major factors determining the outcome of a game.

 

So i say, leave it at 1. Else you'll have a few people able to quickly ruin a game.

Edited by oTec

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changing ticket loss will not matter to the players that want to get back into the action rather than wait on a medic.. medics have less impact on tickets than vehicle losses or people giving up, the punishment for giving up should be vs the player not against the team, a medic working his ass off will always be wasting his time vs the current ticket giveup scenario.

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I'm paraphrasing here but another member put it quite eloquently when they said that "People that don't care about tickets have more of an effect on them than those that do."

 

This sums up the Medic role perfectly. Until there are real ramifications to death then this unequal equation will continue. A real and tangible variable would be reducing the Rally Point count to three and greatly increasing the HAB respawn timer.

 

However, ultimately the only real thing that would make the importance of a Medic paramount would be the complete elimination of Rallies and HAB's altogether.

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Posted (edited)

@Elad shalom!

I tend to advocate for positive encouragement rather than a negative encouragement. Instead of increasing the penalty of giving up from 1 to 3 tickets, I believe keeping it the same and allowing the medics who patch an incapacitated teammate to full health (bandage+heal) would generate 1 ticket.

 

Edited by CptDirty

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@CptDirty Shalom xD 

I like that Idea even more the problem is it will make the game to long, and I agree that my Idea is not the right way to overcome this problem.

I hope that with the v12 Update we will see the game change from the meat grind its some times right now in v11. 

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@Elad Boker Tov

 

Yeah, we will have to wait and see how the ticket count plays out with the new medical system coming in V12 :) 

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Wouldn't it be better for the Game to increase the spawn time substantialy, either generally or increasing whenever you die ?

This would make waiting for a medic preferable and reduce the punishment for the team for reckless play.

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34 minutes ago, MADsquirrel said:

Wouldn't it be better for the Game to increase the spawn time substantialy, either generally or increasing whenever you die ?

This would make waiting for a medic preferable and reduce the punishment for the team for reckless play.

I won't oppose to this idea but I find it to be just another penalty, but compounded. I still think we should consider medics revival+heal to 100% to generate 1 ticket to make it a positive engagement between incapacitated players and medics. Time will tell with V12...

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I don't know what the changes to medics are, but why not just make a downed person have to lay unconscious for 10 seconds before giving the option to Give Up. This forced incapacitation then gains +5 seconds per death within 2 minutes. This generates longer corpse time for medics to engage with, for that is a problem of its own. Also, penalizes poor play styles and decisions while promoting teamwork. 

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On 23/08/2018 at 2:55 AM, DarkCircle said:

I don't know what the changes to medics are, but why not just make a downed person have to lay unconscious for 10 seconds before giving the option to Give Up. This forced incapacitation then gains +5 seconds per death within 2 minutes. This generates longer corpse time for medics to engage with, for that is a problem of its own. Also, penalizes poor play styles and decisions while promoting teamwork. 

Its easy for the player to look at the map and see if a medic is close or on their way and wait.. the problem as Zylfrax pointed out in another thread on exactly the same subject is that the console will allow the player to automatically circumvent this atm  by typing respawn.    So any changes would need to disable console for respawn or find some way to implement a penalty where its back at base or longer wait time when using console. 

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a question which has been asked before:

Why can't you see a respawn timer until you give up?

 

If you could see the timer you might hold off giving up at least until you knew you could respawn.

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41 minutes ago, suds said:

a question which has been asked before:

Why can't you see a respawn timer until you give up?

 

If you could see the timer you might hold off giving up at least until you knew you could respawn.

This. Or make the button say give up and spawn. So to press it you need to select a spawn and wait for the time to run out before you can give up.

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4 hours ago, Romby said:
4 hours ago, suds said:

 

 


4 hours ago, suds said:

a question which has been asked before:

Why can't you see a respawn timer until you give up?

 

If you could see the timer you might hold off giving up at least until you knew you could respawn.

This is something that should be visible... @SgtRoss or someone. 

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Incap screen now has the time to bleed out on it, and also has a Give Up button, with a confirmation when clicking it "Are you sure? Giving up will loose one ticket for your team"

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People not knowing when they'll bleed out is not the reason why many of them rather give up than wait for a medic, and a lot of  players simply don't give a damn about tickets. Persistent ammo might help some, but I don't think it's going to be enough, not by a long shot. Unless either the spawn times are significantly increased or the give up button is locked for a certain time period after getting into the wounded state, I'm afraid we're never going to get rid of the instant giver-uppers.

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4 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

Incap screen now has the time to bleed out on it, and also has a Give Up button, with a confirmation when clicking it "Are you sure? Giving up will loose one ticket for your team"

ohh that is so nice!!! Thx for the oinfo also.

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thanks fuzzhead

 

 

@MultiSquid this may be true but it will help to reduce the number of people who give up instantly.

 

The awareness value of seeing a dead guy on the map is quite high. Perhaps too high...?

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17 minutes ago, suds said:

 

@MultiSquid this may be true but it will help to reduce the number of people who give up instantly.

A marginal change at best. People are not clicking the "give up" button by mistake, and I'm pretty sure a vast majority of them know that giving up costs 1 ticket. They're doing it because they want to get back into action, and they know the game simply doesn't penalize them for dying too often. Making the process of giving up take 2 clicks instead of 1 won't stop anybody either. The way to end this is to take away the advantage of constantly giving up - the faster spawn times.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

A marginal change at best. People are not clicking the "give up" button by mistake, and I'm pretty sure a vast majority of them know that giving up costs 1 ticket. They're doing it because they want to get back into action, and they know the game simply doesn't penalize them for dying too often. Making the process of giving up take 2 clicks instead of 1 won't stop anybody either. The way to end this is to take away the advantage of constantly giving up - the faster spawn times.

Agreed. However, increasing the spawn timer will have a side effect of making people go AFK to go make a sandwich etc. which will likely take longer than the allotted time wherupon they've chipped away that much more of their team's effectiveness. As it stands many times already as a Medic I've expended the time and energy to revive someone and they're AFK so just imagine the effect of increasing this available "down time" will have.

 

Instead, there should be way to reward good behavior instead of punishing bad behavior by freezing ammo and increasing wait times.

 

 

Edited by Zylfrax791

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Posted (edited)

how about if they give up early it removes the kit they are using and reverts to rifelman, then they need to resupply it at ammo box?  so if you spawn early on fob and no ammo crate you dont have the kit so risk is you could lose your kit for good because someone else takes it because you keep giving up early and of course you give up early and want to spawn on that rally ... you wont have the kit?  also kinda stops the magical giving up and hey I need rpg to destroy the vehicle..ok quick give up and spawn with the kit on the rally....

 

reduce the spawn timer but make the punishment for giving up loss of kit?  risk is then put on the fob if people use up the ammo

crates... 

 

or 

 

you keep the same kit but respawn with the ammo you had when you died and cant resupply until dead (and timer fully run out or dead dead cant be revived or revived by medic?  makes the medic more important and people will wait for them.

Edited by embecmom

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1 hour ago, embecmom said:

how about if they give up early it removes the kit they are using and reverts to rifelman, then they need to resupply it at ammo box?  so if you spawn early on fob and no ammo crate you dont have the kit so risk is you could lose your kit for good because someone else takes it because you keep giving up early and of course you give up early and want to spawn on that rally ... you wont have the kit?  also kinda stops the magical giving up and hey I need rpg to destroy the vehicle..ok quick give up and spawn with the kit on the rally....

 

That would be a good punishment on second thought. Reverting to Recruit would even be better though.

 

So that leaves you two choices; wait for a Medic or else anywhere you respawn whether it be a Rally, HAB or Main you've got to start over from scratch.

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

That would be a good punishment on second thought. Reverting to Recruit would even be better though.

 

So that leaves you two choices; wait for a Medic or else anywhere you respawn whether it be a Rally, HAB or Main you've got to start over from scratch.

only fly in the ointment would be how do you handle Squad leads? do you do the same .. means no rally or haveit as if they didnt take the kit as now,  which could slow the game down and actually be worthwhile punishment too.. or allow them to keep the kit? 

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1 hour ago, embecmom said:

only fly in the ointment would be how do you handle Squad leads? do you do the same .. means no rally or haveit as if they didnt take the kit as now,  which could slow the game down and actually be worthwhile punishment too.. or allow them to keep the kit? 

Bottom line all these ideas are great for random pubbies. However, one certainly needs to consider the cheese factor of experienced players using external comms. So say for example the two details we do know about the upcoming system.

 

Thinking about these changes what's to stop organized folks from holding their ammo nerfed re-spawns as they die in their current Medic free squad and then simply starting a whole new squad and spawning on a HAB all fresh and ready to go? And then doing this over and over throughout the match "shampoo, rinse & repeat"...

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

what's to stop organized folks from holding their ammo nerfed re-spawns as they die in their current Medic free squad and then simply starting a whole new squad and spawning on a HAB all fresh and ready to go?

Make it so you can only join squads while alive (except on your initial load into the server before you've spawned in the first time) like they do in PR :) 

 

Edit: To expand on how it was done in PR...

- You could only join squads while alive. You could leave squads or be kicked at any point, alive or dead.

- Upon joining a squad while alive, you would have an initial 2 (1?) minute "kit request" block that meant you couldn't just jump between squads trying to find one where you could quickly grab that marksman/AT/etc kit

- Specialty kits had a "reset" timer, whereby after someone spawned in with one, a timer would start ticking down (2 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes - depending on the value of the kit) such that dying and respawning quickly would render the kit unusable in that squad/team until the timer had expired. So dying to refill the ammo was largely an unused tactic unless the player had been alive for quite some time.  

Edited by Psyrus

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